Being an Ally and Standing before God

[SnowyMacie]

I saw this video by this Youtuber I just started following about homosexuality and scripture, and in the video she's replying to comments left. One of the comments left is one I've seen on here a lot "Good luck explaining to God why you were promoting sin", and she had a great resonse to it. It's one that while I've thought about, I never could quite articulate it. The response was this...

"If I'm wrong,I would rather stand before God and explain that I wanted to value their lives, save their lives and prevent people from being pushed away from the Church and God, and feel rejected and isolated from other Christians than to find out actually homosexuality is okay and God loves love however love is and then realize that you've been essentially be persecuting these people."

I think it's a good point. The reason why I am an ally of the LGBTQ community is because of how poorly they are still treated by many people in this society, and want them to be accepted for who they are. I'd rather be asked by God why I was promoting and accepting sin in the name of love and mercy than promoting persecution and turning people away from God in the name of Christ.

 

[Tetra]

I saw this video by this Youtuber I just started following about homosexuality and scripture, and in the video she's replying to comments left. One of the comments left is one I've seen on here a lot "Good luck explaining to God why you were promoting sin", and she had a great resonse to it. It's one that while I've thought about, I never could quite articulate it. The response was this...

"If I'm wrong,I would rather stand before God and explain that I wanted to value their lives, save their lives and prevent people from being pushed away from the Church and God, and feel rejected and isolated from other Christians than to find out actually homosexuality is okay and God loves love however love is and then realize that you've been essentially be persecuting these people."

I think it's a good point. The reason why I am an ally of the LGBTQ community is because of how poorly they are still treated by many people in this society, and want them to be accepted for who they are. I'd rather be asked by God why I was promoting and accepting sin in the name of love and mercy than promoting persecution and turning people away from God in the name of Christ.

I suspect this post came about because of me?

We would agree on the above.

 

[tstor]

I saw this video by this Youtuber I just started following about homosexuality and scripture, and in the video she's replying to comments left. One of the comments left is one I've seen on here a lot "Good luck explaining to God why you were promoting sin", and she had a great resonse to it. It's one that while I've thought about, I never could quite articulate it. The response was this...

While I am not familiar with the context of the YouTube video, I would agree that Christians cannot promote sin. There is no excuse for doing such a thing. Tolerating homosexuals and sharing the Word with them is great, but we cannot promote their sin.

"If I'm wrong,I would rather stand before God and explain that I wanted to value their lives, save their lives and prevent people from being pushed away from the Church and God, and feel rejected and isolated from other Christians than to find out actually homosexuality is okay and God loves love however love is and then realize that you've been essentially be persecuting these people."

This is an awful attitude to have. Essentially she is saying: "If I'm wrong, I will stand before God and tell Him how He is actually the wrong one and I was right all along." If she is wrong (I do not know her actual position, so I cannot say) then she will most certainly not be speaking back to God. If she is wrong then she is wrong. There are no two ways about it.

I think it's a good point. The reason why I am an ally of the LGBTQ community is because of how poorly they are still treated by many people in this society, and want them to be accepted for who they are. I'd rather be asked by God why I was promoting and accepting sin in the name of love and mercy than promoting persecution and turning people away from God in the name of Christ.

If a Christian is "promoting and accepting sin," then they will not be explaining it to God. They will be conversing with their father the Devil in hell.

 

[SnowyMacie]

While I am not familiar with the context of the YouTube video, I would agree that Christians cannot promote sin. There is no excuse for doing such a thing. Tolerating homosexuals and sharing the Word with them is great, but we cannot promote their sin.


This is an awful attitude to have. Essentially she is saying: "If I'm wrong, I will stand before God and tell Him how He is actually the wrong one and I was right all along." If she is wrong (I do not know her actual position, so I cannot say) then she will most certainly not be speaking back to God. If she is wrong then she is wrong. There are no two ways about it.


If a Christian is "promoting and accepting sin," then they will not be explaining it to God. They will be conversing with their father the Devil in hell.

This is a Faith Group subforum, our "safe house" if you will, you cannot debate our views here unless you identify as a member of our faith group.

 

[SnowyMacie]

I suspect this post came about because of me?

No, did you make a similar comment? I just saw the video and have been meaning to make a thread on it.

 

[Tetra]

No, did you make a similar comment? I just saw the video and have been meaning to make a thread on it.

Literally some dude on your other thread just said that to me. Haha.

Pro-Choice IS NOT Pro-Abortion

 

[FireDragon76]

That's my feelings on that subject as well. I can think of alot of things worse to be wrong about, that most Christians expect a free pass from God. But somehow homosexuality is an "essential" issue to the Christian faith? 150 years ago, some folks thought slavery was an essential issue as well, in fact churches split over the issue. But Jesus didn't come to bring peace, but a sword.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Literally some dude on your other thread just said that to me. Haha.

Pro-Choice IS NOT Pro-Abortion

I actually did see that post, but that's not why.

 

[archer75]

That's my feelings on that subject as well. I can think of alot of things worse to be wrong about, that most Christians expect a free pass from God. But somehow homosexuality is an "essential" issue to the Christian faith? 150 years ago, some folks thought slavery was an essential issue as well, in fact churches split over the issue. But Jesus didn't come to bring peace, but a sword.

The anger about homosexuality from many parties who utterly ignore or even promote much "worse" sins is always a big perplexing to me, too. (Note: I know that not all Christians who speak against homosexuality ignore all other issues. However, some offer the excuse that "other sins" are not "promoted." On the contrary, I find that gluttony, lust, avarice, anger, sloth, pride, and envy are promoted almost all the time and from all sides.)

Good reply here. And good thread topic.

 

[archer75]

This is an awful attitude to have. Essentially she is saying: "If I'm wrong, I will stand before God and tell Him how He is actually the wrong one and I was right all along." If she is wrong (I do not know her actual position, so I cannot say) then she will most certainly not be speaking back to God. If she is wrong then she is wrong. There are no two ways about it.

This was in reference to:

"If I'm wrong,I would rather stand before God and explain that I wanted to value their lives, save their lives and prevent people from being pushed away from the Church and God, and feel rejected and isolated from other Christians than to find out actually homosexuality is okay and God loves love however love is and then realize that you've been essentially be persecuting these people."

I don't think this is the sense of what she's saying at all. Where does she say "God is actually the wrong one"? If she's called on to defend why she did what she did, she would defend it by saying that - since she wasn't certain which "position" was actually right - she chose this one believing that the "effect" of being wrong was less sinful than the "effect" of behaving the other way.

 

[archer75]

If a Christian is "promoting and accepting sin," then they will not be explaining it to God. They will be conversing with their father the Devil in hell.

While the comment quoted in the OP was a little unclear, I think the sense was clear enough, and if this is, your response, is what you really believe, I guess I'm just surprised. Seems to me that practically every Christian is sooner or later (probably sooner) in a position in which they have to make a pretty binary choice and aren't sure what's right. Is your belief that if someone believing they're doing what's right and that it's the best choice they can come up with does something that you consider "promoting sin" -- that's it? Chatting with their "father" in Hell forever?

I wonder...does voting for a political candidate constitute promoting the sins that the candidate that promotes while in office, or already promotes as a public figure?

 

[Tetra]

This is an awful attitude to have. Essentially she is saying: "If I'm wrong, I will stand before God and tell Him how He is actually the wrong one and I was right all along." If she is wrong (I do not know her actual position, so I cannot say) then she will most certainly not be speaking back to God. If she is wrong then she is wrong. There are no two ways about it.

I took it as... if she is going to be wrong, better to be wrong and loving someone... than being wrong, and persecuting someone.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

I saw this video by this Youtuber I just started following about homosexuality and scripture, and in the video she's replying to comments left. One of the comments left is one I've seen on here a lot "Good luck explaining to God why you were promoting sin", and she had a great resonse to it. It's one that while I've thought about, I never could quite articulate it. The response was this...

"If I'm wrong,I would rather stand before God and explain that I wanted to value their lives, save their lives and prevent people from being pushed away from the Church and God, and feel rejected and isolated from other Christians than to find out actually homosexuality is okay and God loves love however love is and then realize that you've been essentially be persecuting these people."

I think it's a good point. The reason why I am an ally of the LGBTQ community is because of how poorly they are still treated by many people in this society, and want them to be accepted for who they are. I'd rather be asked by God why I was promoting and accepting sin in the name of love and mercy than promoting persecution and turning people away from God in the name of Christ.

I absolutely agree. One pastor, an ELCA Lutheran pastor, once said that he believes affirmation is the right thing to do, but that he would rather err on the side of grace than wrongly condemn.

 

[Saucy]

Honestly, it's replies like this that are destroying the faith. The bible says in BOTH testaments that homosexuality is an abomination to God. It is disgusting to Him and unnatural. To tell people God is okay with their sin and they're accepted as they are isn't a message in the bible. Even Jesus told the woman at the well to "go and sin no more."

The message of Christ and the church is that of repentance, not acceptance. You must die to self, take up your cross, and follow him. Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will enter.

All I hear in connection to homosexuality is love. It's all about love. And if you disagree with them or their lifestyle, then it's hate. You hate them. No, true love isn't being willing to let someone go to hell because they might be offended you don't agree with their lifestyle.

And maybe you're okay with their lifestyle, but it doesn't do anyone favors to pander to them and pretend like everything is fine.

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

 

[SnowyMacie]

Honestly, it's replies like this that are destroying the faith. The bible says in BOTH testaments that homosexuality is an abomination to God. It is disgusting to Him and unnatural. To tell people God is okay with their sin and they're accepted as they are isn't a message in the bible. Even Jesus told the woman at the well to "go and sin no more."

The message of Christ and the church is that of repentance, not acceptance. You must die to self, take up your cross, and follow him. Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will enter.

All I hear in connection to homosexuality is love. It's all about love. And if you disagree with them or their lifestyle, then it's hate. You hate them. No, true love isn't being willing to let someone go to hell because they might be offended you don't agree with their lifestyle.

And maybe you're okay with their lifestyle, but it doesn't do anyone favors to pander to them and pretend like everything is fine.

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

This is a Faith Group subforum, our "safe house" if you will, you cannot debate our views here unless you identify as a member of our faith group.

 

[Saucy]

This is a Faith Group subforum, our "safe house" if you will, you cannot debate our views here unless you identify as a member of our faith group.

Basically "agree with us or you can't post here"? What is the faith group? I don't see one for "whosoever will may come" or a "liberal" label.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Basically "agree with us or you can't post here"? What is the faith group? I don't see one for "whosoever will may come" or a "liberal" label.

You are welcomed to post here in fellowship, but you cannot debate our views. From our statement of purpose...

"Whosoever Will, May Come
A forum for all liberal Christians to discuss and fellowship.

A few things to know about WWMC members:

1) They believe that Jesus never shut out anyone based on age, race, gender identity, religious affiliation (or lack thereof), sexuality, or political views. If you are reading this you are welcome here.

2) WWMC members believe that God has shown that we all "see through the glass darkly" (I Cor. 13). It is therefore impossible for any human to fully know God's will, and therefore have a monopoly on the truth. They believe the Bible to be a valuable resource, but not free from error.

3) The members here believe God is merciful and loving: When we judge God's children (whom we all are) we transgress against God's express command. When we who are finite judge others, we presume on an infinite God's throne, His mercy and justice. Such judgments go against our beliefs. Further, we believe it is contrary to the teachings of Christ to judge, or have an opinion, on the final destination of any soul or group of souls. Such decisions are solely up to the Lord, our God."

​

Our only rule...
"All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic."

 

[Saucy]

Well, that's as clear as a puddle of mud. There is no 'liberal' faith group or an established set of teachings by Christian liberals. I go to a "whoever may come" church as we're open and friendly, but I can just say I'm a liberal, since there's no liberal faith group or icon determining who is and who isn't.

Besides, it sort of goes against "whoever may come" to then say you can only come in here to share thoughts WE agree with. I don't understand it, but out of respect for you, I'll leave.

 

[PloverWing]

For me, if I'm being honest, same-sex marriage is one of those ethical questions in the same category as serving in the military or remarriage after divorce: I truly don't know whether it's permissible for Christians or not.

But given that I don't know, I would rather err on the side of grace, and welcome same-sex couples into the church to use their gifts for God's glory. The thought of pushing them away from Christ is horrifying.

Hence, I'm an ally.

 

[hedrick]

Well, that's as clear as a puddle of mud. There is no 'liberal' faith group or an established set of teachings by Christian liberals.

Sure there is. Every major tradition has a range of actual views, e.g. Catholic and evangelical. Liberal Christianity is about as coherent as those traditions. You'll find other threads here trying to define it.

There are a set of denominations that are commonly referred to as "liberal," though I prefer "mainline."

The current membership of this forum didn't choose the WWMC name. But the group is clearly for liberal Christians. Acceptance of gays as one of the tenets of the group. We're generally happy to talk with non-liberals. We have lots of things in common as Christians. But direct attacks on liberal Christianity are inappropriate.

There actually have been some threads about homosexuality. Occasional discussions on that topic, with both sides giving their position, have been acceptable. Because of CF rules, this is the only group in which such a debate could occur, and I think it's important to have it. But I don't think it's appropriate outside the context of that kind of occasional debate.