Bedtime Battles

[Reformationist]

But ... sometimes even a smack won't do the trick

Of course not, nor should physical training be the only method a parent employs.

and i refuse to smack harder to get the desired result.

Everytime I spank my children I spank them with the same intensity. I don't spank harder when the offense is worse. They may get a couple of extra smacks but those smacks aren't administered harder. My goal isn't in harming my child. Yes, it should sting. No, my child should not, nor do they, fear for their life if they're going to get a spanking. If I were to change the intensity then then that would mean that I was either being too hard before or too soft. I found out real early how hard was appropriate. I don't vary from that intensity. I don't mix temporary emotion with discipline. I make sure I'm administering the spanking with the right attitude and the right motivation.

I have had problems with my son's sleeping habit's from almost day one. I'd really rather not go into the why's and wherefore's, suffice to say, it was not my bad parenting that encouraged this behaviour, in fact it was a necessity for many of my son's earlier years.

Well ukok, if your circumstances are not ordinary then obviously your means of dealing with the situation aren't going to be ordinary. I did not say anyone was a bad parent, nor did I imply it. What I do believe is that most parents raise their children as if their children are authoritatively equal to the parents. If your particular situation required that your child stay up later in their early years then just be aware that it may take longer to set the standard of expected behavior. Once it's set, however, when your child breaks your rules it is rebellion. You, as the parent, will have to decide when that standard is set.

I'm doing the best that i can do. I hope that sooner (preferably) or later, my son will be able to sleep throughout the night in his own room on a more regular basis than he does at the moment. Believe me though, it isn't because I am "loose" with my parneting tactics.

Again, I never said you were. You seem to be very defensive about this. I was attacking no one. I merely made the statement that most of the prior participants of this thread seem to feel the need to bribe or cajole or threaten their children to get them to obey the set bedtime. That will never work the way you want it to.

what do you do when you have spent hours reading stories, reassuring your child, taken them upstairs 10 times already, turned the light off, turned the light on, taken him a drink, his favourite teddy, cuddled him again, warned him, taken him back to bed, warned him, taken him back to bed, warned him, taken him back to bed...spanked him....and he still gets out of bed ?

If you have determined that there is no physical danger to your child then you have to accept the fact that children are masters of manipulation. They learn real quick and real young how to push your buttons. I would not spend hours reading stories at bedtime. Nor would I put up with their incessant need to manipulate you into allowing him/her to break the rules.

This is how I taught my children, to include my 1½ year old child, to obey bedtime:

About 15 minutes before bedtime I tell them, except my youngest, that they will be going to bed in 15 minutes. When that 15 minutes is up I take them to bed, tuck them in, give them hugs and kisses and turn out their lights. If they get up and it's not important they get a spanking. I don't have to tell them twice because I've been doing this for years. Now, my youngest. I give him a cup about ½ hour before bedtime. I rock him, or let him sit in my lap calmly, for the last ½ hour before he goes to bed, while he's drinking his cup. I tell him to go give his mommy hugs and kisses and tell her "night, night." He does this and then I put him in his crib. Most of the time he goes right to sleep. If he's in there playing, though, I go in and tell him to go to sleep and that he'll get a spanking if he continues to play. If he continues to play I follow through and spank him. Yes, I spank my 20 month old. I know that some people will think that's barbaric. It's not.

It is frustrating that he continues to behave in this way. I have talked, I have reasoned, I have coerced, I have bribed, I have made star charts, promised trips out....the list goes on. I am consistant in my parenting methods relating to bedtime, it is my son that is not.

ukok, your children are only going to push you as far as you let them. Obviously this is muuuuuuch more difficult to teach when a child is as old as your oldest. How old is the child you are having this problem with? One thing you need to remember is that until a child is about 11 or 12, give or take a year or two, they don't really fully reason through their behavior. Oh sure, they know the rules and know that breaking the rules is bad and that they'll get in trouble but they don't normally think fully through something until they're a bit older. What they do remember is that suffering the punishment, possibly an earlier bedtime, coupled with your dealing of their rebellion, most like a spanking, is worse than just going to sleep when they are supposed to.

So what else would you reccomend I try, because i think i must have exhausted almost every available option ?

The first thing you need to do is set the standard. That is, teach your child what is expected. You might try putting them to bed and laying with them for 10 minutes to keep them calm enough to fall asleep. You may also want to try getting them up earlier so that they are tired at bedtime. After the standard is set then you have to realize two things. First, if they break the rules now that the standard is set, it's plain old willful disobedience. For a younger child there is only one consistantly successful method for dealing with willful rebellion. That is a spanking. You can talk to a 5 or 6 year old until you're blue in the face and it will mean very little to them.

God bless

 

[ukok]

I appreciate your response, but i must stress that i had no intention of being defensive, just simply stating the facts, as i saw them.




edited post due to it being a little oo personal, again!

To be honest with you, i know what my son's problems stem from, but i hadn't wanted to discuss them here...when i was married to my son's father, from the word go, my ex husband was aggressive and abusive. He would wake up the whole household night after night in rage. my son needed physical reassurance from me that everything would be ok. Hence, my son's problems are deeply ingrained.

He is the kindest, sweetest little boy, he just needs lot's of love. And despite the fact that he now has regular contact with his Dad, he still is unsettled in his sleeping habit's.

My son's 8th birthday is in about 3 weeks, we left just after his 4th birthday.

I do agree with a lot of what you said, but each family is different. One method doesn't suit all situations. I try to deal with things in a way that allows my son to feel emotionally stable, even when i am cross. But because i'm doing this job alone, it does get awfully hard sometimes!

 

[Beckijhn]

Okay I have a funny story - I still giggle everytime I think about it. My brother, Sis in law and their two kids moved in with us while they were between houses - one sold the other waiting to move into, that made three adults and five kids in the same three bedroom house. I gave them my sons room and he moved in with my daughters. (6 and 4) My son was about 18 months and just moved into a toddler bed.

Anyway he didn't want to stay in bed and I kept taking him back and laying him in bed. Finally he came in the front room *again* and I scooped him up, swatted him twice, put him in bed and told him he better stay there. He was so shocked he didn't even cry ~toughguy~ The diaper makes a loud sound to little ears I think.

The next night I put him in bed and I heard him getting out (crinkly mattress) so I opened the door and said "what are you doing?". He looked at me, his eyes got BIG and he hopped back in bed. I kid you not I didn't have any problems with him after that!

I thought you could use a giggle.

I do think consistancy is the best policy in all of this and though it's not easy ukok you should try to set a consequence to getting up and stick to it. If spanking doesn't work (and at 8 it might not with the bedtime thing) try making him do a particular chore right then or in the morning. Take away a priviledge or a fun activity. Whatever you do make it sting and don't give in. Be careful not to set the stakes WAY too high! It's easy to do amid the frustration of disobedience! Make it resonable yet hard on him and follow through.

That's what I'd do. (I'd have my little booger scrubbing toilets till midnight, but I'm a meanie when I'm crossed )

 

[ukok]

the idea of making my son do a particular chore appeals to me....after all, if he says he can't sleep, why not give him something to do !?!

I like it... he could spend an hour or two dusting the lounge, cleaning the kitchen...the only problem might be that perhaps he would enjoy it, i think he would do almost anything to get out of going to sleep!

 

[IslandBreeze]

Ummm...maybe I missed it but do any of you see your child's lack of compliance as rebellion?

I understand where you're coming from, but sometimes kids just aren't sleepy. Seriously, when I was 9 years old, I had a bedtime of 7:30. Most of the time the sun was still up! Obviously, my sister and I were not tired, and I think to make children lay in bed for hours (or discipline them) until they become sleepy is a bit ridiculous--especially if the child has an exceptionally early bedtime.

 

[Beckijhn]

ukok - that is a real possibility - he might like it! I've had that kind of thing backfire on me a time or two.

My boy hauls for me. When he *needs* something to do like that I usually have some stuff that needs hauled here and there. It's physical exertion and poops him out! Makes him <yawn> real tired!!

 

[Simcha]

I understand where you're coming from, but sometimes kids just aren't sleepy.

I was thinking about this last night......my 8 year old son was still wide awake at about 10:30...it was boiling hot and I knew it just wasn't worth sending him to bed because he would toss and turn until he got worn out.

Well, when he did go to bed, a short while later, he fell asleep straight away, and that got me thinking that maybe my problems with bedtime are because the kids aren't tired when they go to bed.

My 7 year old needs more sleep than her brother, so I'm going to try and send them to bed at the same time as I usually do, but let them read until they're ready to sleep......with the school holidays just a week away, it can't hurt too much if they stay awake real late.

ukok I was really sorry to read what happened in your son's early years, and it does seem that the problem is more a need to feel secure rather than plain disobedience. Have you thought of getting an intercom or walky talky type thingimajig so that he can talk to you if he gets scared, but without having to leave his room?

Just a thought....sorry if it sounds absurd

 

[ukok]

Simcha, it doesn't sound absurd at all, in fact it's a great idea! I don't think my son conciously recalls his earlier years, but i know that this is how the habit' s began. Funnily enough, I decided that tonight i would let both my children stay up until quite late too, they are hardly doing any work at all at school at the moment and so i'm feeling much more relaxed about sending them to be later than usual. Also, we will be going away for a week soon, and then my daughter will be going away on a guide trip, so really, it seems a little silly for me to be too dogmatic about bed times at the moment.

 

[Simcha]

Hi ukok, I'm with you on that one.....besides, this muggy heat we're having really does make it much harder to sleep............and guess who's having problems getting to sleep tonight???? ME LOL

I caught hubby's cold and just cannot fall asleep. So, I decided to get up, watch a bit of t.v. and catch up on some posts here.

Getting back to your son, with the summer hols so soon, it might be a good time for you to experiment a bit more with bedtimes.....find out what time he's really tired and see if that makes a difference. I know that when he's back at school things will need to be more disciplined, but see what he does when he's left to his own devices. He seems to need the reassurance that you're there, so if you can't get a walky talky thingummy, how about telling him that he can call downstairs to you, and that you will answer him, but that he must not leave his room. The key is to break the bad habits, and that's not easy, so you have to find a compromise with your son that will stop him coming down to you all the time, but that will let him know you're there if he needs you.

I'm saying a lot of this to myself as well. My daughter especially, needs a lot of reassurance, but it's my son who just is not sleepy at bedtime. Because my children are so close in age the youngest has got used to going to bed at the same time as the eldest.........a habit that I wish now we had never started!!! But I'm trying to find the compromise, by letting my son read or play quietly for an extra hour or so. We've never been very good with routine, and what we do at the moment is the closest we've come to it. It's trying to find the happy medium that's hard work!!!

Boy, sorry for rambling, not bad for 1:30 in the morning LOL

 

[stargazer]

My son will be 2 in August and I put him down between 7-8. His routine is dinner, bath, stories and then bed. If he wants to get up and play (he's in a twin bed), that is allright but he stays in his room. We have a thing on the doorknob that keeps him from opening the door so he doesn't even try anymore. He usually goes to sleep fairly quickly even if he gets up to play but most of the time, he goes right down. He takes a two hour nap during the day too. If he goes down late, then I get him up earlier and he is tired when we put him down the next night. Good luck and God bless.

 

[dreamcatcher]

my children never want to go to bed!

What time do you send/take your children to bed, what routines do you follow/ do older children go to bed later or do all ages get sent up at the same time . Do your children ever get out of bed and sneak into yours ?

i'm just curious

My 12 year old goes to bed between 9 p.m. and 11p.m. . When she doesn't have school the next day she stays up to around 11. my 4 1/2 year old....well.....that's a whole different battle...she won't settle down usually til around 10 p.m. sometimes earlier sometimes later.and she ALWAYS sneaks into our bed.

how do I stop that? that drives my wife and I crazy and we haven't figured out a cure for it yet.

 

[JohnR7]

my children never want to go to bed!

You could get them out and run them a little bit harder. When my son has had a busy day, he sleeps real good.

 

[Papist]

You could get them out and run them a little bit harder. When my son has had a busy day, he sleeps real good.

Yep -- excellent advice. We do that -- get her physically exhausted! It's the only way!

 

[Michaela]

I'm 14. My parents used to let me stay up as late as I wanted, but I had to face the consequences. If I was tired at school(fell asleep, got bad grades, etc.) it was my fault and I got in trouble. After about a month, I learned that it's easier to go to bed at a sensible time and wake up rested. That way I didn't get in trouble at school and home!