• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

becomming christian from intense fear

Status
Not open for further replies.

akeng

Active Member
May 25, 2009
254
5
✟422.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Is salvation valid if your reasons for becomming a christian and right living are that of intense fear of going to hell. I always hear that its wrong to be motivated to follow christ for fear of hell but then why would he even create such a place if it was not to motivate us to not go there?

Like a parent spanking a kid into right behavior, in fact maybe God should send us to hell for a period of time when we willfully disobey him and maybe Joe would think twice about cooking the books at work after being burned alive for even 20 min and returned to his body. How many times would you cuss out your mom if you knew 20 min in hell was going to happen.
 

chingchang

Newbie
Jul 17, 2008
2,038
101
New Braunfels, Texas
✟25,259.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Is salvation valid if your reasons for becomming a christian and right living are that of intense fear of going to hell. I always hear that its wrong to be motivated to follow christ for fear of hell but then why would he even create such a place if it was not to motivate us to not go there?

Like a parent spanking a kid into right behavior, in fact maybe God should send us to hell for a period of time when we willfully disobey him and maybe Joe would think twice about cooking the books at work after being burned alive for even 20 min and returned to his body. How many times would you cuss out your mom if you knew 20 min in hell was going to happen.

Salvation is valid for anyone who has it for any reason. Faith and love is what God wants from us. Some people are motivated moreso by fear than others...so what?

CC
 
Upvote 0

wlajoie74

Member
Jun 11, 2009
564
35
✟23,404.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Engaged
The whole purpose of being a christian is to love God with everything and to love your brother as yourself. These as it is said are the two most important commandments. The ones Jesus left for us. It is written 1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." So basically you can't truly love without ridding fear from your heart. In other words you can't be scared of going to hell and expect to end up in heaven.
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
Is salvation valid if your reasons for becomming a christian and right living are that of intense fear of going to hell. I always hear that its wrong to be motivated to follow christ for fear of hell but then why would he even create such a place if it was not to motivate us to not go there?
I fear you have a distorted idea of what salvation is.

Salvation is the putting right of all creation, and us in and for that creation. "Hell" is choosing not to be part of that.

Like a parent spanking a kid into right behavior, in fact maybe God should send us to hell for a period of time when we willfully disobey him and maybe Joe would think twice about cooking the books at work after being burned alive for even 20 min and returned to his body. How many times would you cuss out your mom if you knew 20 min in hell was going to happen.
Violent punishment is not a very effective way of teaching people to love.
What your 'solution' would do is turn everybody into monsters.

Fortunately God knows better; that the way to turn around lives is working with people, showing them a better path and enabling them along it. Walking by their side and encouraging and supporting them through the set-backs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tavita
Upvote 0

psalm867

Newbie
Jul 30, 2008
954
47
Kansas
Visit site
✟23,819.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
The whole purpose of being a christian is to love God with everything and to love your brother as yourself. These as it is said are the two most important commandments. The ones Jesus left for us. It is written 1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."

This was the verse that came to my mind also. Perfect love drives out fear. I didn't become a Christian because I was fearful. I became a Christian because I realized that God really loves me, and I wanted to follow Him.
 
Upvote 0

preistsplace

Liberated by God's Unconditional Love
Jun 5, 2009
337
47
Usa
✟23,219.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Is salvation valid if your reasons for becomming a christian and right living are that of intense fear of going to hell. I always hear that its wrong to be motivated to follow christ for fear of hell but then why would he even create such a place if it was not to motivate us to not go there?

Like a parent spanking a kid into right behavior, in fact maybe God should send us to hell for a period of time when we willfully disobey him and maybe Joe would think twice about cooking the books at work after being burned alive for even 20 min and returned to his body. How many times would you cuss out your mom if you knew 20 min in hell was going to happen.
Salvation is valid as long as there was an experience of Christ, there is no need to ba afraid of God casting you in hell forever, there is however reason to fear oing to "hell" even for a short time. My veiw here is not the "Orthodox " one but it is important to remember that In Jesus" time he was against the orthodoxy.Feel free to visit Tentmaker.org while you are investigating this matter they have many convincing proofs. However no one will try to force you to believe. I leave you with a few verses..
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Notice that sin is singular Jesus took it all.
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
These passages are describing exactly what is needed to be saved.
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
here you may here that at that time it would be too obvious but I should remind all that salvation is not based upon works
ideas like confessing Jesus because it would be too obvious having no effect upon salvation are still trying to base it upon works.
1Jn 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
And to make such a confession the Holy Spirit dwelleth in you..
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
God himself has spoken these things
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
men unto justification of life.
From these verses God wills all men to be saved...Christ was ransom for all to be testified in due time.
1Ti 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.
He is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially those that believe.
I was once in your shoes I didnt want to even have Children because there waas so great a possibility that they would end up in eternal hell....the Spirit of God however has shown me the truth and the truth has set me free.
 
Upvote 0

akeng

Active Member
May 25, 2009
254
5
✟422.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
what about in the bible where it says lord lord we phrophisied in your name and yet he does not know them. Why would he say wide is the gate to hell if everyone should be saved and if it is so easy to become saved.

I guess it is hard to draw contrast since we dont know what others are thinking and what it is in there thinking and actions that put them on the wide path vs the narrow path since none of us are christ and all fall short. So it looking at it from a probalistic point of view it is very likely your kids could go to hell if the way to hell is so wide and the way to heavan is so narrow. Maybe I am misinturpreting something - in fact I hope I am misinturpreting something. Blessed are thoes children who die at birth because they dont have to deal with the potential of going to hell.
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
what about in the bible where it says lord lord we phrophisied in your name and yet he does not know them. Why would he say wide is the gate to hell if everyone should be saved and if it is so easy to become saved.
It's worth noting that most of those statements were said to or about those who were most confident that they were part of God's righteous people.
 
Upvote 0

akeng

Active Member
May 25, 2009
254
5
✟422.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
well I can tell you I definitly dont feel holier than thou. I believe Jesus is lord and pray he takes me to heavan and do the best I can to live how im suppose to but life has taken me in some unexpected directions. I definitly dont want to be in a place that is described in 23 min in hell so thoes scriptures are concerning to me, and what about the wide and narrow gates, that scripture seems to apply to everyone or was the audiance still the same.

It's worth noting that most of those statements were said to or about those who were most confident that they were part of God's righteous people.
 
Upvote 0

Adoniram

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2004
932
110
72
Missouri
✟24,287.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Is salvation valid if your reasons for becomming a christian and right living are that of intense fear of going to hell. I always hear that its wrong to be motivated to follow christ for fear of hell but then why would he even create such a place if it was not to motivate us to not go there?
In the first place, hell was not created as a place to send unbelievers...Jesus said it was prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt. 25:41). Secondly, if not hell, what are we being saved from? It is after all, called salvation. Jesus is the Savior.

So, not wanting to go to hell is a valid motivation for initial belief. As we grow in Christ, and we learn about the depth of his love, what he wants for our lives, the kinds of things that we should do to live an acceptable life according to his will... as our love for him grows with understanding of who he is, our fear of hell is replaced as a primary motivation with a desire to love and please the Lord.
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
what are we being saved from?
The current mess the world is in.

Anyone who thinks the point of salvation is to save people from hell has missed the whole point of the story of Israel, let alone the story of Jesus.

Salvation is about putting the world right, and us in and for that.
 
Upvote 0

Jase

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2003
7,330
385
✟10,432.00
Faith
Messianic
Politics
US-Democrat
Salvation should not be based on fear. The eternal fire and brimstone concept of hell is a fabrication of the church in order to increase pagan conversion to Christianity. There is no such thing as Hell in the OT (Jews don't believe in it), and the NT references don't mean what most people think they mean.
 
Upvote 0

timlamb

Senior Veteran
Feb 22, 2006
3,166
106
Entiat Washington
✟26,480.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Some people just seem to look at salvation like it is a mugging. You don't repent of your sins God grabs you from behind and chokes them out of you, Foolishness is what it is.

What is God, truth, love, righteousness, ...Life. Those who chose not to follow the Lord are rebels against all that He is, truth, love, righteousness, life.

Other people think God is a brain washer. All rebellious minds will be changed because Jesus died for them, again I say foolishness. There is no such thing as love except that which is freely given.

If you love the Lord you will not want the unrepentant in your midst. There is no way you could tolorate them once you are made pure. God cannot heal mankind until the rebellion is put down. He is offering amnisty and full citizenship to all who put down their weapons and let Him be God. but we have read the book and we know how it ends, the rebellion does not achieve their abjective, and all who chose that way are removed so God may fulfill His promise and bring us eternal happyness and no more tears.
 
Upvote 0

akeng

Active Member
May 25, 2009
254
5
✟422.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But the passage wide is the road to hell and narrow is the path to heavan, that implys not many are going to heaven that is still a bothersome passage for me maybe I need to read through it more to understand the context. Who would want to take up arms against God, how foolish is that.

Some people just seem to look at salvation like it is a mugging. You don't repent of your sins God grabs you from behind and chokes them out of you, Foolishness is what it is.

What is God, truth, love, righteousness, ...Life. Those who chose not to follow the Lord are rebels against all that He is, truth, love, righteousness, life.

Other people think God is a brain washer. All rebellious minds will be changed because Jesus died for them, again I say foolishness. There is no such thing as love except that which is freely given.

If you love the Lord you will not want the unrepentant in your midst. There is no way you could tolorate them once you are made pure. God cannot heal mankind until the rebellion is put down. He is offering amnisty and full citizenship to all who put down their weapons and let Him be God. but we have read the book and we know how it ends, the rebellion does not achieve their abjective, and all who chose that way are removed so God may fulfill His promise and bring us eternal happyness and no more tears.
 
Upvote 0

CTyer

Servant of the Lord
Oct 26, 2007
312
28
✟23,129.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Politics
US-Republican
What we are being saved from, is the WRATH OF GOD and the JUDGMENT of God that is coming to the world. This is only possible through the atonement of Christ that makes reconciliation with the Father possible.
John 3:36 says, "He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him."

This word believes is in present tense and is more than a mental ascent of knowledge. If we say we have faith, but do not have the works that the faith we claim we have produces, then we have merely a mental acknowledgment which will not lead to life everlasting.

Let's look at Colossians 3:5-7 for example: Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience: In the which you also walked some time, when you lived in them. ("when you lived in them =past tense.. you USED TO do some of these things) If we are still doing them, then that alone is a witness against us and we need to address it with the Lord.

We are not guaranteed salvation the moment we say a sinner's prayer or whatever one wants to call it. Let me explain: If we repent and we decide to follow Jesus, this marks the beginning (not the end) of our place in the race, but we in no way have obtained "the magic get out of hell ticket". If we die that day and we were sincere great, but if not then we have a sincere race to run ahead of us. (see Hebrews 12:1-2) Jesus said that those who ENDURE until the end, the same shall be saved. Not 'those who enter the race, the same shall be saved'. Paul says in Philippians 3:14, "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
Why would Paul be pressing toward the mark of the prize if he already obtained it? Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:27, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
The same grace that affords a person the fear of the Lord that causes them to repent, is the same grace by which those fears are relieved. For some, understanding the judgment of God that is coming to the world, and understanding that if judgment came today, they would be on the wrath end of the stick, is just what they need as a wake up call, to soften their stiff necks, while others need the message of compassion. God won't hesitate to use either, if it means He can count you among the living.

Jude 1:22-23 And of some have compassion, making a difference:And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. "

Fear of the Lord is a GOOD THING, not a bad thing. We must understand WHO He is. He is not this fluffy, all loving, marshmallow, frolicking throughout the earth with His all loving wand, depositing fairy dust along His way, winking at our sin, that some make Him out to be. He is HOLY, RIGHTEOUS and a just JUDGE. Sometimes it is this holy fear I believe many lack in the body today. They have made for themselves a God they like rather than receive Him for WHO He is, and as a result, turn the grace of God into lasciviousness, using the blood of Jesus in an unrighteous way, (a license of sorts) to live a carnal sin filled life, deceiving themselves into believing they are going to frolick right into heaven when the time of judgment comes. But Jesus says not every one who calls me Lord shall be entering in! He also says, "why do you call me Lord and do not the things that I say?"

Jesus said to His Disciples, in Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." This is a holy and healthy fear.

Let's see what just some of the Scriptures says about having a healthy Fear of the Lord:

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Psalm 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

Psalm 34:11 Come, you children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endures for ever.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Proverbs 2:5 Then shall you understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Proverbs 10:27 The fear of the LORD prolongs days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened.

Proverbs 14:26 In the fear of the LORD is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge.

Proverbs 14:27 The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

Of course there are many many more, but as you can see, Fear of the Lord is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing, and again the same grace that affords a person the fear of the Lord that brings them to the knowledge of the TRUTH and causes them to repent, is the same grace by which those fears are relieved.

We cannot begin to appreciate the true price that Jesus paid on the cross for us, and what kind of love that is that God would provide such a wonderful gift, a way of escape of His coming wrath and judgment that He must pour out, because He is just and righteous and rather through Christ's atonement, through the shedding of His holy and precious blood, be reconciled unto the Father, because He sent His only begotten Son, and put His wrath upon Him for those who will receive it, until we understand what it is we face otherwise.

Calvin Tyer
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
quote=akeng;Is salvation valid if your reasons for becomming a christian and right living are that of intense fear of going to hell. I always hear that its wrong to be motivated to follow christ for fear of hell but then why would he even create such a place if it was not to motivate us to not go there?
You're right. Let gratitude be your motivation.
 
Upvote 0

peace4ever

Newbie
Apr 14, 2006
456
27
✟23,276.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Is salvation valid if your reasons for becomming a christian and right living are that of intense fear of going to hell. I always hear that its wrong to be motivated to follow christ for fear of hell but then why would he even create such a place if it was not to motivate us to not go there?

Like a parent spanking a kid into right behavior, in fact maybe God should send us to hell for a period of time when we willfully disobey him and maybe Joe would think twice about cooking the books at work after being burned alive for even 20 min and returned to his body. How many times would you cuss out your mom if you knew 20 min in hell was going to happen.

"Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." One can't seek God if he has no fear of him.

Psalm 36:1-2, "There is an oracle in my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked; there is no fear of God before his eyes. For in his own eyes, he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his own sin."

So fear is the beginning of wisdom and also the beginning of seeking. Once you start seeking God's word, you will see that Jesus paid the price for cursing your mother and everything else you did. So God is who sets you free, provided you accept Christ's atonement for your sins. :wave:
 
Upvote 0

akeng

Active Member
May 25, 2009
254
5
✟422.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Why so few then, why is the path so narrow?

"Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." One can't seek God if he has no fear of him.

Psalm 36:1-2, "There is an oracle in my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked; there is no fear of God before his eyes. For in his own eyes, he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his own sin."

So fear is the beginning of wisdom and also the beginning of seeking. Once you start seeking God's word, you will see that Jesus paid the price for cursing your mother and everything else you did. So God is who sets you free, provided you accept Christ's atonement for your sins. :wave:
 
Upvote 0

peace4ever

Newbie
Apr 14, 2006
456
27
✟23,276.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Why so few then, why is the path so narrow?

I've thought about this a long time. And the only thing I can come up with is; what is valuable is rare. What is common is common. And heaven is definitely valuable, not common. So only a choice few can get there. But I do ask myself; "Why me?" Why little me who's no better than anyone else?"

God answers this in 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 "Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many of you were influential, not many of you were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him."

So God chose the obviously meek, lowly and despised things to show what His power can do to the weak. "Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so Christ's power may rest on me." :)
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.