Becoming Quiverfull

[SmackYouTwice]

There are ZERO verses in the Bible that speak to deliberate family planning (in marriage), but there are many that speak to surrounding issues and point to an ideal lifestyle. Sickness and disease are certainly realities that need to be taken into consideration, when they are present.

SU2, there is no RIGHT way to continue to have children out-of-wedlock, but I applaud your willingness to take responsibility for the little one you have.

I never did fully understand the term "out of wedlock"... just simply not being married?!

 

[Sabertooth]

I never did fully understand the term "out of wedlock"... just simply not being married?!

I believe that QF is God's ideal for married couples. God still loves and cares for those born under other circumstances and He still has used them mightily, but there are hardships associated with such lives that would have otherwise been avoided.

That is NOT an argument for abortion, but for abstinence prior to marriage.

 

[Sabertooth]

Soo...

this is a VERY interesting topic for me...

... is QV saying that God makes that sperm fertilize the egg? Why didn't the father of the baby's wife get pregnant during the 3-4 years they tried? Why was it me within a few weeks? Or maybe my ULTIMATE question here is what is QV and how does it work?

Like most things about God, the dynamics of individual human purpose is shrouded in mystery.

One similar question from the Bible would be, "Why did God allow Hagar (Gen. 16 & 21) to conceive Ishmael...?"

We don't really know. If Abraham and Sarah had held to faith, Ishmael would have never been born, and this completely in the will of God. It's almost as if their unbelief made the conception of Ishmael necessary as some sort of disciplinary(?) consequence...

 

[SmackYouTwice]

God still loves and cares for those born under other circumstances and He still has used them mightily, but there are hardships associated with such lives that would have otherwise been avoided.

Is this confirmed in the bible?

I was conceived outside of marriage. My mom never did come to know God, and unfortunetly, she still doesn't. I came to God when I was 17.

Obviously if I wasn't born, I wouldn't have hardships, period. But if my mom had found God and I was born within a marriage, hardships would've been different? Cuz apparently there really isn't a big difference in a hardship between my mom (not Christian) and me (Christian), because we both did exactly the same thing... and I take full responsibility for my actions. Christians stumble, and I think in the exact same ways that non-Christians do.

Also, the father of my baby was conceived within a Christian marriage... but he most definetly has very much the same hardships as non-Christian conceived men. So, he, myself, and my mom did the exact same thing...

 

[Leanna]

.... you asked "Or maybe my ULTIMATE question here is what is QV and how does it work?" And the answer is basically quiverfull means that you leave your birth control and number of children to God and God's will-- and the answer he gave is, "there is no right way to continue to have children out-of-wedlock"

 

[Sabertooth]

Is this confirmed in the bible...?

Deuteronomy 23:2 speaks of a related curse, but that curse, like others, is broken at the Cross.

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

Well, after being quiverfull for most of our marriage, we've come to the place of having to lay down the desire to have more.

It boiled down to having two contradictory ideas from scripture, and a command out-weighing an inference.

It's been really hard to come to it, and I still consider myself quiverfull in my heart, meaning that I do see children as 100% blessings, but if I had any more, it would be greed on my part, because I cannot function as a godly mother.

I'm so, so grateful for my children, but the medication I need to live and be the mother they need, and the wife my husband needs, means that I am not able to have any more. It's very upsetting, and I feel ostracized by the people who were my friends for so long, and they question my faith, and tell me I'm being selfish.

Please, if you feel so led, would you pray for us?

 

[BananaCake]

I'm so, so grateful for my children, but the medication I need to live and be the mother they need, and the wife my husband needs, means that I am not able to have any more. It's very upsetting, and I feel ostracized by the people who were my friends for so long, and they question my faith, and tell me I'm being selfish.

Please, if you feel so led, would you pray for us?

Definitely praying! It's not selfish to take care of yourself, as well as taking care of any future children by not conceiving while on a risky medication. It's quite a wise decision! We put off having kids for a while due to a medication I was on that wasn't tested on pregnant women, as well as other health problems. After a long and painful process (as well as me learning a lot and God showing me a lot), He chose to heal me and I no longer have to take any meds.

 

[RedTulipMom]

Well, after being quiverfull for most of our marriage, we've come to the place of having to lay down the desire to have more.

It boiled down to having two contradictory ideas from scripture, and a command out-weighing an inference.

It's been really hard to come to it, and I still consider myself quiverfull in my heart, meaning that I do see children as 100% blessings, but if I had any more, it would be greed on my part, because I cannot function as a godly mother.

I'm so, so grateful for my children, but the medication I need to live and be the mother they need, and the wife my husband needs, means that I am not able to have any more. It's very upsetting, and I feel ostracized by the people who were my friends for so long, and they question my faith, and tell me I'm being selfish.

Please, if you feel so led, would you pray for us?

Big huggs. i will certainly pray for you !!

 

[annaapple]

I'm so, so grateful for my children, but the medication I need to live and be the mother they need, and the wife my husband needs, means that I am not able to have any more. It's very upsetting, and I feel ostracized by the people who were my friends for so long, and they question my faith, and tell me I'm being selfish.
Please, if you feel so led, would you pray for us?

Sounds to me like you are doing the right and godly thing, and being very brave and faithful. There are all kinds of sacrifices that are pleasing to God, including the sacrifice of NOT having more children, even though you would like to.

Your friends don't sound like they're being very supportive or friendly.

Will definitely for you!

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

Thankyou for such kind posts. They mean a lot.

 

[striving2bvirtuous]

Soo...

this is a VERY interesting topic for me...

... is QV saying that God makes that sperm fertilize the egg? Why didn't the father of the baby's wife get pregnant during the 3-4 years they tried? Why was it me within a few weeks? Or maybe my ULTIMATE question here is what is QV and how does it work?


Like most things about God, the dynamics of individual human purpose is shrouded in mystery.

One similar question from the Bible would be, "Why did God allow Hagar (Gen. 16 & 21) to conceive Ishmael...?"

We don't really know. If Abraham and Sarah had held to faith, Ishmael would have never been born, and this completely in the will of God. It's almost as if their unbelief made the conception of Ishmael necessary as some sort of disciplinary(?) consequence...

Okay...I am really trying to figure this out too. Does God CAUSE the spem and egg to meet everytime a child is born? I know that he CAN do this ex(He "gave" Ruth conception in the book of Ruth or He "opened Leah's womb in the book of Genesis, he also caused Sarah to become pregnant when she was already barren). Okay, so He CAN cause sperm to meet egg. But, like Sabertooth brought up, is this the case in EVERY circumstance as in with Hagar and Abraham(that doesn't make sense to me).

Could it be that the natural law of procreation God set in order would mean conception would result from sex (if both parties are healthy and not using birth control?) not that he is causing conception to happen each time?

Am I making sense?

 

[Sabertooth]

Okay...I am really trying to figure this out too. Does God CAUSE the spem and egg to meet everytime a child is born? I know that he CAN do this ex(He "gave" Ruth conception in the book of Ruth or He "opened Leah's womb in the book of Genesis, he also caused Sarah to become pregnant when she was already barren). Okay, so He CAN cause sperm to meet egg. But, like Sabertooth brought up, is this the case in EVERY circumstance as in with Hagar and Abraham(that doesn't make sense to me).

Could it be that the natural law of procreation God set in order would mean conception would result from sex (if both parties are healthy and not using birth control?) not that he is causing conception to happen each time?

Am I making sense?

Ishmael still had a life plan in place BEFORE he was conceived, per Psalm 139:16,

"All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be."

Otherwise, we would have to conclude there are two types of conceptions [ordained vs. physiological] leading to two types of people [deliberate vs. out of God's self-imposed obligation]. Calvinists can probably accept that dichotomy, but it is unconscionable to those of us who do not fully embrace it, making this conundrum all the more glaring.

 

[annaapple]

I've been pondering this, and although i don't have any answers or conclusion, it did strike me that when we look at the character of God and His actions throughout history the word subtle springs ot mind. The Bible of necessity tells us the stories of when He did intervene, often very dramatically, but what about all the other people who lived thoughout those 1000s of years? In the their lives the work of God was much more subtle. Yes, he is in control and omniscient; but at the same time, I don't think he's always there meddling in everything. When God made us the way he did, and therefore made conception happen by the method that it does (when left out of a lab) he must have known what he was doing. I suspect He knows when an egg and sperm will meet to make a baby, rather than making the two meet successfully, if you see what I mean.

Let's be frank - if you believe He makes every egg meet every sperm (when they do), it does rather beg the question how a just and loving God can be deliberately denying loving Christian couples a baby while granting children to over-crowded families in LEDCs, or drug-addicted prostitute mothers...

 

[Sabertooth]

...

Let's be frank - if you believe He makes every egg meet every sperm (when they do), it does rather beg the question how a just and loving God can be deliberately denying loving Christian couples a baby while granting children to over-crowded families in LEDCs, or drug-addicted prostitute mothers...

Not sure what an LEDC is...

The first answer that springs to mind is:

Babies are not interchangeable; they are custom-made for their call, whether they embrace it or not. The qualities that one couple passes down to their children is different than what another couple will, even if they are drug addicted or stuck in some other sin...

 

[annaapple]

Less Economically Developed Country - the currently correct way to say Third World...

Fair enough - and of course there is always the chance that the child will act as a catalyst for change for the better etc etc etc. But I still think that the best way to get my head round the fact that God could meddle in anything, but seemingly choses not to (for reasons best known to himself, and known to us one day too, no doubt) is to assume he HAS good reasons not to micromanage most aspects of most people's lives. My, that sentence really was too long. Sorry.

 

[Sabertooth]

That Psalm implies that He has a unique plan for each one of us.

Who we are born to,
what gender and ethnicity we are,
where we live,
when we live,
our motivations and
culture we live in
all go into molding our character for our call.

All of that precedes EVERY conception. If that is what God would do for each conception, then it doesn't constitute "meddling." That realization is why people become QF.

 

[annaapple]

I can see that's a good reason to be QF... although it is not our (main) motivation.

As I said, I don't really have the answer. I just think it is easier to argue that case from the point of view of conception happening than from the perspective of conception "denied". kwim?

 

[jgonz]

Someone on one of my email rings posted a very interesting article. I won't cut & paste the entire thing (because it was pretty long), but here is the gist... She says:

I read in Bill Bullock last week about Sarai's (Sarah's) womb and Rivkah's (Rebecca's) womb - that they were Akarah - which was translated as Barren in most Bibles.. but in Hebrew it has a greater meaning.. that of being lifted up.. or being prepared.

For those of us still longing for babies, and yet we haven't seen that prayer answered yet.. hold tight, you're not BARREN or in our understanding - unable - we are Akarah! We are being lifted up, and prepared..

I thought this was REALLY good stuff... For those, especially Believers, who aren't having children for whatever reason, they're being Prepared for the special child! This ministers to me about my Quiverfull cousin... She had like 15 miscarriages and 1 full-term baby died before having her 3 living children. Those 3 girls are Very special girls... extremely smart, dedicated to the L-rd, definately a gift from the L-rd. She had been Prepared for them...

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

I like that Jgonz, being prepared! Thats how I (eventually) looked on my waiting time before I fell pregnant - as an opportunity from God to become the kind of Godly woman I wanted to be as a parent...

for your cousin, God bless her for holding on through so much heartache.

Otherwise, we would have to conclude there are two types of conceptions [ordained vs. physiological] leading to two types of people [deliberate vs. out of God's self-imposed obligation]. Calvinists can probably accept that dichotomy, but it is unconscionable to those of us who do not fully embrace it, making this conundrum all the more glaring.

hmm, Sabertooth, I'm struggling to understand the last part of this sentence - could you be a bit more specific about the God's self-imposed obligation and calvinist parts? You make very interesting points and I would like to understand it!!