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Becoming Catholic

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VOW

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To Stormy:

Send me your "snail mail" address in a PM, and I'll send you a Rosary. Just talk to Humble Joe, he can verify that my intentions are honorable. I want to do this, because I have been such a cement head giving you such a hard time here.

For a "jump-start" on the Rosary, go to www.virtualrosary.org. There is a lovely program you can download to your computer which you can use to pray the Rosary, and it gives you verses of Scripture to meditate upon while praying.

But don't worry about praying the Rosary "perfectly." There ARE no "Rosary Police" that hide in your closet, ready to jump out at you and scold you for doing it wrong. The entire Rosary is a meditative prayer, to calm your soul so you can feel the touch of God.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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VOW

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To Stormy:

Your offensive warfare tactics are most understandable now, Hon. Sometimes you have do great battle, in order to reach a completeness. However, rest assured: Once you conquer all your doubts, the sanctuary you seek WILL be there.

And pay close attention, the doubts will be conquered.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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Bruno

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Originally posted by devoted
 Bruno,

This is really sad that you have to Church hop like that because you are not finding truth in its fullness. Please learn what the Catholic Church really teaches and is about, give your "mother" (church) another chance. It is only in her you will find the fullness of faith and truth. Our Faith is not put in the men of the church but in Christ. We do not have the authority to pick and choose what doctrine is best for us or what doctrine is true. There is only one truth and that is Jesus Christ but only in the Catholic Church will one find the true and full complete truth taught about him. Don't make the mistake of finding a Church based on what you want to believe is true rather than what actually is true. Truth is objective and not subjective to what we want it or need it to be. "People do not hate Catholicism, they hate what they think Catholicism is."

I am church hopping because I want to learn about all of Christianity, NOT because I have to, or need to.

I have been a Catholic for over 20 years, so I have been learning about it more than just about anything else. As much as I wanted to find The Truth in Catholicism, I couldn't. It wasn't until I became an atheist that God has finally revealed Himself to me. I now have a VERY personal relationship with Him and don't doubt Him one bit. I will go to a Catholic church again, of course. My entire family is Catholic and I love them dearly, so if they ever ask me to go, why wouldn't I? I believe with all my heart that I have been saved, so at this point it wouldn't hurt to go to any church.

What saddens me about Catholicism the most is the amount of people it scares away from God. I can't even tell you how many men and women I have known in my life who started with Catholicism and couldn't find the True God there, so they gave up on Him.

God lives inside us, Christians, not inside temples, or cathedrals. WE are His Holy Temples!!!

"However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men."  (Acts 7:48)

"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of Heaven and Earth and does not live in temples built by hands."  (Acts 17:24)

 
 
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Miss Shelby

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What saddens me about Catholicism the most is the amount of people it scares away from God. I can't even tell you how many men and women I have known in my life who started with Catholicism and couldn't find the True God there, so they gave up on Him.

Bruno,

I don't think it would be fair to say that Catholicism scares people away from God. People are sinners, and people scare people away from God. When one truly understands what Catholicism teaches, I don't understand how anyone would be scared of God.

And by your own admission, for twenty years you were one of those Catholics, but considered yourself unsaved? Were you doing Christ any benefit at that time? Honestly? If you weren't, then is it fair to judge others who may lack the knowledge they need to truly understand the faith?

Michelle
 
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Evee

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I have been of the protestant faith all my life.

 I am not satisified with it any longer.

 I feel that the Catholic church has much good to offer.

 I have learned a lot from the Catholics on this board.

 I just believe Jesus Christ is the answer regardless of denominations.  Evee
 
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Wolseley

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Stormy, I have worked in RCIA for years, and let me tell you a secret: there is not a single person who has converted to Catholicism who has not experienced the EXACT SAME feelings that you are right now. In fact, the most common things you encounter are:

---An almost painful, indescribeable longing to be Catholic; a feeling of being drawn to the Catholic Church, a fascination with the rites, the rituals, the devotionals and practices. This is offset by:

---An intellectual certainty that many, if not most, Catholic doctrines are erroneous, flawed, or otherwise in conflict with God's will. This is often accompanied by mental resistance, a desire to fight against the longing and the "tug" towards Catholicism; sometimes, years of training and deeply-held belief acquired in a different church causes a person to desperately want Catholicism to be wrong. It has to be wrong...it can't be right, because it flies in the face of literally everything the person believes, everything that he or she cherishes and holds dear as God-given truth. Besides this, there is the inconvenience factor: "What will my spouse/parents/friends/siblings/co-workers/pastor say? What will the other people at my present church say? What will Jesus say?"

These two things combine to form a new sensation, which is a sort of apprehensive fear; the person starts to think that maybe Catholicism might be right.....but this is accompanied by terrible doubts and a very real fear that if they start to think this way, they may be placing their salvation at risk, that maybe they are being deceived by the devil into believing in the false Romish church; but while the doubts are there, so is the pull, the continual tug towards Catholicism. This, oftentimes, results in a compromise: the person agrees with him/herself that okay, some Catholic doctrines are okay, but for the rest of the more far-out ones....no way! This partial acceptance works to a degree, but the person usually continues to read, to study, to pray, and to think about Catholicism.

Oftentimes, a person will be inexplicably driven to something Catholic. In your case, you feel a very real need to have a rosary. This is not at all uncommon, and it is perfectly natural. Some people have gotten a rosary and carried it for months without even knowing how to use it, or (more commonly, in fact) keeping it with them while actively disagreeing with the prayers that are part of it. I know of one fellow who was in such a mental turmoil that he literally could not sleep at night until he got a St. Christopher medal; it's all he could think about. He went to a Catholic bookstore and got one of the $1.50 pewter medals of St. Christoper, and wore it secretly inside his shirt for weeks.

There are many, many, many accounts of people who were drawn into Catholic churches because that's where the Blessed Sacrament is kept; they didn't even agree with the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, but they simply could not stand being away from the tabernacle where the Eucharist was stored. I know a woman in her mid-30's who was terrified of setting foot in a Catholic church during a Mass, but she would slip into an empty church in mid-day, sit in the front row, gaze at the tabernacle, and weep for an hour or more at a time. She couldn't explain it, but the longing was so strong that she couldn't stay away---she was pulled into the church.

Personally, I believe this is the gentle hand of God at work within these people. Both individuals I described above are today both practicing Catholics, even though both of them were, to a certain extent, pulled "kicking and screaming" into the Catholic Church. :) There isn't a convert alive who has resisted the Catholic Church with might and mein before they finally became Catholic. Oddly enough, most of the turmoil is emotional; there is more of a battle within one's self with the doubts and the fears, the longings, and the uncertainties, than there is with doctrines or dogmas; once the emotional issues are settled, the acceptance of the doctrines seems to fall into line of their own accord.

Again, I personally feel that the reason for this is that faith has less to do with intellect than it does with grace; nobody comes into the Catholic Church unless God puts His hand on their heart and leads them there. Once they recognize that gentle steering of God in their lives, the objections suddenly become resolved; they suddenly can see the opposite side of the argument; they become capable of understanding what before they simply could not see. This is grace at work, pure and simple.

The best advice I can give you at this stage is to relax, and go wth the flow. Continue to study. Read Catholic books that make sense to you. Think. And above all, pray for enlightenment and guidance as to what God wants you to do. If you want to get a rosary or a medal or a prayerbook, do it. You won't be struck by lightening, and I can guarantee that. :) Take your time, and follow where this leads you.

VOW has offered to mail you a rosary; take her up on it. If you're uncomfortable with doing that, then you can order one yourself from http://www.leafletonline.com for relatively little money. Or you can see if your area has a Catholic bookstore.

Books I would heartily recommend to you:

Rome Sweet Home, by Scott and Kimberly Hahn, which has already been highly recommended by others in this thread;

Catholic Questions, Catholic Answers, by Kenneth Ryan;

What Catholics Really Believe, by Karl Keating;

and all three volumes of Surprised By Truth, by Patrick Madrid, which contain conversion stories of people from all sorts of different backgrounds who struggled with Catholicism before coming into the Church.

Some other good books that might help you are Why Do Catholics Do That?, by Kevin Johnson, Catholic and Christian, by Alan Schreck, Unabridged Christianity, by Mario Romero, By What Authority, by Mark Shea, and Born Fundamentalist, Born-Again Catholic, by David Currie. All of these can be had through either Barnes and Noble or Amazon.com, or through Leaflet Missal Company at the site I linked above. (If the link doesn't work, try Leaflet Missal Co., 976 West Minnehaha Ave., St. Paul MN 55104-1556, or call 1-800-328-9582 and request a catalog.)

And, of course, there's always us on this forum here; we will be delighted to explain anything to you we can. :)
 
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kern

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Originally posted by Stormy

Do you truly agree with all the doctrine?


No, I do not. This does cause some problems for me but it's not enough for me to quit the Catholic church.


If you answer no to these questions...

How have you found the peace, amidst the doubt, to fully worship in your Church?

I don't know. I never "felt" anything in a Protestant church, but I do when I go to Catholic mass. I feel like God has called me to be Catholic -- maybe he'll work out the rest of the stuff for me later. :)

-Chris
 
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devoted

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Bruno,

[[[I am church hopping because I want to learn about all of Christianity, NOT because I have to, or need to.]]]

What is there to learn from a "Church" if you believe the bible is the only thing one needs. You are searching for truth but I don’t think you realize that yet.

[[[I have been a Catholic for over 20 years, so I have been learning about it more than just about anything else. As much as I wanted to find The Truth in Catholicism, I couldn't.]]]

The good thing about truth is that is not dependant on us, it is objective whether or not we can accept it or not has no baring on it’s reality. There is only one truth and there is only path to the Father and that is by way of Christ but there is something that is called the fullness of that particular truth and you are only going to find it (the fullness) in Catholicism because it is the church that Jesus himself established.

You hop around because you know this, that there is an objective measure of truth and you hop around because you are in search of it, but it is right under your nose.

[[[It wasn't until I became an atheist that God has finally revealed Himself to me. I now have a VERY personal relationship with Him and don't doubt Him one bit. I will go to a Catholic church again, of course. My entire family is Catholic and I love them dearly, so if they ever ask me to go, why wouldn't I? I believe with all my heart that I have been saved, so at this point it wouldn't hurt to go to any church. ]]]

You know what I think you experienced is a conversion in which we all experience (provided God allows us) and you will not stop there either you will always grow in the spirit but this is not something that is exclusive to Catholicism nor is it something that can only happen outside of it. I believe you may be describing baptism in the Holy Spirit, which only means that all the graces, and gifts of the Holy Spirit that you received in baptism and confirmation (assuming you were) are being manifested in you. This is something that can happen in and out side of the RCC Church but if you experience God while away from the Church that does not mean that the Church was invalid in any way for you. Why don’t you come home?

[[[What saddens me about Catholicism the most is the amount of people it scares away from God. I can't even tell you how many men and women I have known in my life who started with Catholicism and couldn't find the True God there, so they gave up on Him.]]]

Again you are making truth subjective to what we sinners think and feel about it rather than the objective measure that it is. I am sorry that they are those that did not experience God there but it does not mean that he is not there. I couldn’t begin to explain why one does not find God in his Church any more than I can explain why one can not find God outside his Church. This is something that is for God to know, "the spirit blows as he wills," the bible says.

[[[God lives inside us, Christians, not inside temples, or cathedrals. WE are His Holy Temples!!! ]]]

God lives in you yes, and he moved in when you received baptism, it was only made manifested when you opened yourself to him as God willed.

[[["However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men." (Acts 7:48)]]]

Right, so why are you looking for him in there?

[[["The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of Heaven and Earth and does not live in temples built by hands." (Acts 17:24)]]]

I agree…hands do not make the RCC but Jesus does, and all those protestant denomination you hop around in are made by human hands. They were rooted in and founded by men and the theology comes from man and the worship service comes from man and all that they hold and believe and teach and pass down and even break away and start their own, all comes from the work of human hands. I will give you their human names to be specific, to name just a few: Martin Luther, John Calvin and every other denomination like the Mormons and the JW’s and even the Muslim faith, all can give you a name of a man that made them with his human hands.

It is from the Jewish faith that we were given our faith in God, this is the faith that was established by God and with in this faith he revealed the fullness of all truth and this revealed truth which is Jesus Christ the only son of God, handed down to us this belief and faith with all of it’s theology and all of it’s beauty and truth through his apostles that established for us his one true holy Catholic apostolic Church.
 
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KC Catholic

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Stormy, I will pray for you and others who are entering a period of discernment. Please feel free to ask questions of us here in OBOB or if you prefer via PM's.

We are here to assist in any way.

Peace and blessing be with you,
KC
 
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seebs

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I have had some similar thoughts. However, as I keep saying, God made me a skeptic. A few observations:

1. The extensive cataloguing of sins strikes me as pratically the antithesis of Christian liberty. It often strikes me as being like the ever-more-formalized kosher laws, carefully designed to be more specific than the original rules, and to accept prohibiting some things that were not against the original rules, simply to make *sure* that, if you follow all of these rules, you're fine.

2. I have noticed that, for the most part, the Catholics I know are good people. In particular, I've seen people improve substantially with the conversion.

3. I have seen a few cases where I am almost totally certain that a Catholic teaching is incorrect; unfortunately, I can't tell whether this is the church being fallible, or whether the teaching in question is not actually part of "doctrine".

4. If, indeed, Chick is right, and the Church is some kind of trap, it *would* be awfully appealing.

5. If Chick is wrong, and the Church is indeed the Church Christ established, still intact after all this time, then it *would* be awfully appealing.

God has made it clear to me that I don't need to answer this question; He's got me covered, and I don't need to worry about that.

There are a few points on which I believe the Catholic Church has erred in making general prescriptions out of the *individual* guidance of the Holy Spirit. I think that following Catholic doctrine puts you clearly on the right path; I do not, however, believe that there are no things judged "sinful" by Catholic teaching which are, in fact, not sinful in some places or for some people.

Most of my concerns have to do with teachings derived from "natural law"; this seems to be where I find the most doctrine that strikes me as good rules of thumb which individuals may be better off ignoring in some cases.
 
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isshinwhat

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Stormy, I can relate. I have lived in Tennessee for most of my life, and was ccertain the Catholic Church was wrong. When I felt led to her, I was confused and uncertain, but I was sure it was God calling me there, so I followed. There have been, at various times, doctrines that I had a hard time believing or putting into practice, but in my heart I knew them to be true. The infallibility of the Pope is a hard thing to grasp, yet without a second glance, we accept that Paul's letters contained no error, nor James', Peter's, Jude's, etc. I figured if I trusted the Holy Spirit to guide their hands, then I must trust him again today, 2000 years later, too. The Communion of the Saints was another sticking point for me, but it has opened up a whole new world for me. Christ's love truly has no bounds for me now. There are others that Christ is working on within me today, but I have faith that he will continue to guide me. Christ is a teacher and I desire nothing more than to listen to Him.

I will pray for you, because I know how difficult what you are going through can be. The attacks seemed to come from all sides in my experience, but know that the peace of Christ is true rest. God bless.

Neal
 
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devoted

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Seebs,

I just have one question?

What gives you the authority to question whether or not Catholicism is valid? Why do you seem to think that Christ and his Church is subjective in truth and not objective?

Why does one you have to believe in order for it to be valid? Whether or not you are a skeptic, it does not change reality and the truth does not cease to exist.
 
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isshinwhat

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Why does one you have to believe in order for it to be valid? Whether or not you are a skeptic, it does not change reality and the truth does not cease to exist.

It is only through the Grace of God that anyone is called. Please try being a little less heavy-handed in your posts. Not every statement someone makes has to start an argument. The road to becoming Catholic is often a long one for some people and they need prayer. If seebs never becomes Catholic, I'll still say that I believe he has sought God with an honest heart.

God Bless,

Neal
 
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kern

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Originally posted by devoted
Seebs,

What gives you the authority to question whether or not Catholicism is valid? Why do you seem to think that Christ and his Church is subjective in truth and not objective?

That's a bit harsh. I said earlier that I do not agree with everything the Catholic church teaches even though I am Catholic.

This is not because I'm ignorant or purposefully disobedient for no reason, it's simply because I lack the "real faith" in these doctrines necessary to say that I *believe* them.

For instance, I know intellectually that it's a grave sin to miss a Sunday mass. However, I'm not sure that I actually *believe* this in the sense of a deep, true belief that if I were to miss one Sunday mass I would be offending God severely. This doesn't mean that I'm rebelling against the church, it just means that as of yet I lack the conviction of true faith on this matter.

There's nothing you can really do about this; you can't force a true faith in something, nor can you gain a true faith simply by reading (i.e. the Bible or the Catechism). It has to come from God or from within (both? the same thing?). If you simply say that you believe something when you do not have the true faith, well, "even the demons believe, and shudder."

-Chris
 
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Avila

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There are a few issues that I disagree with. However, because the Church, in her wisdom sees fit to teach it, I am keeping my mouth shut on my opinions of it (except to my DH and my spiritual director). I am also trying to learn more about it, and see if maybe I'm the one who is wrong. Those feelings haven't kept me from feeling fully in communion with God and his Church. The issues that I disagree with are not essential to salvation. If I were to disagree with something such as the dual nature of Christ, then perhaps I wouldn't feel comfortable in the Catholic Church.

I will be praying for you, Stormy.
 
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devoted

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[[[There's nothing you can really do about this; you can't force a true faith in something, nor can you gain a true faith simply by reading (i.e. the Bible or the Catechism). It has to come from God or from within (both? the same thing?). If you simply say that you believe something when you do not have the true faith, well, "even the demons believe, and shudder."]]]

This is not what I was implying. What I was implying was this; The Church is the truth and all that the Church teaches is truth, it does not need any of us to believe in it to make it true. It's true all by itself.

It's truth is objective to our lack of faith, our skepticism, and our ignorance. It is not subjective based on whether we can understand it or believe in it. It's not like Protestantism where one says other than belief in Christ one is free to believe whatever they want.
 
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seebs

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Originally posted by devoted
Seebs,

I just have one question?

What gives you the authority to question whether or not Catholicism is valid?


"valid" isn't exactly what I was questioning, but...

The same thing that gives me the authority to question whether or not the teachings of Wicca are true, or the teachings of Islam, or secular humanism, or the consensus opinions of most Southern Baptists. God gave me a brain.

Why do you seem to think that Christ and his Church is subjective in truth and not objective?

Where did I say this? I am quite convinced that God's will is objective. I am also just as convinced that we are *guessing* about it, all of us. Someone can be right about one thing, and wrong about another; I am not *convinced*, and I will not claim to be.


Why does one you have to believe in order for it to be valid? Whether or not you are a skeptic, it does not change reality and the truth does not cease to exist.

Agreed. And whether or not you, or anyone else other than God, believes something doesn't make it true. If the Catholic Church is, indeed, the one Church Christ left for us, then my skepticism will not harm it; I may be a bit worse off for my doubts, but I'm in God's hands either way, and He made me this way for His own reasons. I occasionally, however briefly, envy people the certainty they appear to experience, but in the end, I can't wish to be other than what I am; this is as I was meant to be.
 
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