Be not conformed to this world--not clothing

[ZiSunka]

What does it mean to "be not conformed to this world" other than dressing modestly?

Or is conformity expressed only in our outer attire?

 

[Jehane]

The first thing God got onto me about with this verse was what I was putting in my mind. I'll read anything; if it's printed I'll read it. Absolutely no discretion whatsoever! Jam jar labels, adds on the train, most mags (I was drawing the line there somewhere) books, books & more books. Not good enough in God's eyes. Slowly He has been prying my eyes from the undiscriminated printed page to the sorts of things He prefers me to fill my mind with. I know how C.S. Lewis felt being dragged along kicking & screaming but what goes in to the mind comes out in our actions & neither should reflect worldly values.

 

[MrJim]

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Renewing of the mind is key here. Would include all aspects of daily living (clothing included) but it has to stem from a mind renewal and safe to say a heart renewal as well.

 

[Danfrey]

One area that tends to affect the Mennonite people is success. Far to often a good work ethic has become out of balance and you have Christian men trying to justify being workaholics.

Loving our enemies is another way of not being conformed to the world. How do I act with the person who just upset me? Far too often I don't want be around them or harbor a grudge, when what I should be doing is being a peacemaker.

How about TV? Do I enjoy watching things on the television that I would consider sinful if I did them myself? This is an area that I have to check myself on.

Would I be driving around in a new car if I could afford it rather than a car that is paid for? Do I use credit to buy things that I can't afford to pay cash for? Am I willing to go in debt to a bank so that I can buy a house? If I do so, what happens if God calls me to the missionary field?

 

[ZiSunka]

Far to often a good work ethic has become out of balance and you have Christian men trying to justify being workaholics.

And women. I have been a victim of that kind of thinking. It's probably my biggest issue--achieving the unachievable.

 

[ZiSunka]

How about TV? Do I enjoy watching things on the television that I would consider sinful if I did them myself? This is an area that I have to check myself on.

Another good one that I have to be more proactive about.

 

[Jehane]

How about TV? Do I enjoy watching things on the television that I would consider sinful if I did them myself? This is an area that I have to check myself on.

I would have got rid of the thing years ago but dh wouldn't hear of it. I don't watch much but I admit everything I'm attracted to ends up having to be scrapped.

 

[ZiSunka]

So, judging from the volume of discussion in this thread and the one about clothes, it looks like we think that not conforming is largely about how we look as opposed to what we do.

I mean, even the non-clothing things we came up with are very shallow.

Is there more to being a nonconformist than G-rated TV shows and ankle-length dresses?

 

[Danfrey]

I don't know about the others on here, but many times when discussing the non-conformity issue, I am working on the details of daily life. Yes, we could spend days talking about the deeper spiritual issues of non being conformed to world, but far too often these types of discussions don't get around to how does this play out in my daily life. Of course all of the things we have discussed should come from a heart that desires to be more like christ and the indwelling of the holy spirit. I don't consider any of the things we have brought up as shallow.

As far as the emphasis on outward appearance, I think it boils down to the fact that we discuss the details of the things we don't agree on more than the details of the issues we do agree on. The discussion would die off pretty quick if it were, yep, yep , yep, I agree, yep.

 

[ZiSunka]

I don't know about the others on here, but many times when discussing the non-conformity issue, I am working on the details of daily life.

So let's do that. There's more to daily life than clothing and TV, isn't there?

And by shallow, I meant it's literal sense, not an indictment against anyone. Shallow means surface, and I think you have to agree that clothing and TV are surface manifestations of con-conformity, and there are much deeper manifestations that should be pursued as well.

 

[Jehane]

Yes, but I am finding this medium quite difficult to work in. I'm new to technology & trying to squash an arguement into a few words to fit in one of these little boxes & all my reference material (invariably) elsewhere just when I need it most is starting to make me feel quite a dill. Perhaps one reason the outward things get discussed so much is because it is the external evidence of what's been going on spiritually. Why on earth else would I trot from store to store looking for a nice modest shirt when I can buy a plunging neckline, tight & bare below the midriff straight off the rack at a cheaper price?

 

[MrJim]

Is there more to being a nonconformist than G-rated TV shows and ankle-length dresses?

I hope so, or we are a sorry lot


What I think we need to look at is that we are not so much called to be nonconformists but rather transformists. The contest shouldn't be: How can I be unlike the "world" but rather how do I grow in this transformation by the renewing of the mind "...that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Therein is the key.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Use Common Sense---This has nothing to do with on object like TV, Shoes, Electricity etc. but the content like a previous poster said

this verse was what I was putting in my mind.

Sin is popular in this world, if it feels good do it--this is what we are to be "not of" we do not take the easy feel good path.

One thing I would like to submit to all legalistic christians: If we would worry about what we should do(like feed the Hungary, visit those in prison, care for widows and orphans, love one another, etc.--we would not have much time to worry about what we should not.

 

[Danfrey]

Use Common Sense---This has nothing to do with on object like TV, Shoes, Electricity etc. but the content like a previous poster said

First of all, this comment makes it sound like anyone who concerns themselves with things like television or what they wear is an idiot. Please correct me if I am wrong.

One thing I would like to submit to all legalistic christians: If we would worry about what we should do(like feed the Hungry, visit those in prison, care for widows and orphans, love one another, etc.--we would not have much time to worry about what we should not.

May I ask what your definition of legalistic is? This is a word that I have seen way over used in our circles.

 

[ZiSunka]

One thing I would like to submit to all legalistic christians: If we would worry about what we should do(like feed the Hungary, visit those in prison, care for widows and orphans, love one another, etc.--we would not have much time to worry about what we should not.

I don't know, there has to be more to it than feeding the hungry and visiting those in prison. Even the unsaved do good deeds.

 

[Danfrey]

I don't know, I think the people in Hugary should be feeding us. They have great food. Yummm, paprika chicken and dumplings. Now that's good food!

That's not nice Walkin.

 

[ZiSunka]

Given that we can't put our finger on what non-conformance to the world means, how can we possibly do it and go around teaching disciples to do it?

We could make a laundry list of good deeds, or things we should or shouldn't wear or watch or do, but just following a proscribed set of behaviors doesn't seem to be able to stand the test of time.

 

[Danfrey]

Back to the subject at hand.

If we are not conformed to the world, what are we conformed to. Christ. We are too be conformed to the kingdom of God. We don't chase after those things that the world chases after, money, power, prestige. Ours it to be a humble life. We are to be spiritually minded and eternally focused. Do I live for myself, or do I live for others? One of the problems with a discussion like this is that it is very difficult and questionable to come on here and talk about all the things we do right. Wouldn't this be pride? Maybe it would be easier to talk about a given situation, how we acted or reacted and how we should have acted or reacted.

 

[ZiSunka]

Back to the subject at hand.

If we are not conformed to the world, what are we conformed to. Christ. We are too be conformed to the kingdom of God. We don't chase after those things that the world chases after, money, power, prestige. Ours it to be a humble life. We are to be spiritually minded and eternally focused. Do I live for myself, or do I live for others? One of the problems with a discussion like this is that it is very difficult and questionable to come on here and talk about all the things we do right. Wouldn't this be pride? Maybe it would be easier to talk about a given situation, how we acted or reacted and how we should have acted or reacted.

I don't know...if something can't be defined at least in a sketchy way, then practicing it becomes just another exercise in transactional analysis--what happened and how I reacted to it.

There's got to be a meaningful answer to the question. A meaningful definition of non-conformance to the world. It's not just a set of reactions, is it?

 

[MrJim]

I'm tellin' ya-yer looking at it from the wrong angle.

Nonconformity has a sense of reaction to it--define conformity and then do the opposite.

Transformation...transformation...

Main Entry: 1trans·form
Pronunciation: tran(t)s-'form
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French transformer, from Latin transformare, from trans- + formare to form, from forma form
transitive verb
1 a : to change in composition or structure b : to change the outward form or appearance of c : to change in character or condition : [SIZE=-1]CONVERT[/SIZE]
2 : to subject to mathematical transformation
3 : to cause (a cell) to undergo genetic transformation
intransitive verb : to become transformed : [SIZE=-1]CHANGE[/SIZE]