Battlestar Galactica (New Series)

[Ringo84]

I got into this show after playing the BSG board game with some friends.

It's awesome! Well...at least the first two or three seasons are.

Comments? Try not to spoil anything for those who are still working their way through the series.
Ringo

 

[Kalevalatar]

It's impressively complex, intelligent series, isn't it? Our local tv just started showing season four (at long last!).

I'm old enough to remember the original series, so I expected an updated version of the entertainment-without-brains type of space opera with 21st century special effects and cool handsome young guys. I'm glad I did give the re-imagined series a shot, because it's nothing like the old series. No cutting corners by depicting a simplistic black and white world where good guys always do the right thing and bad guys are just pure eeevil here.

BG deals with my favorite issues: politics, religion, and best of all, identity: what is humanity? What makes us human? To me, an intelligent series is one that explores these human conditions and poses questions, instead of offering definite answers and force-feeding predigested interpretations.

I like the way BG does this by making good use of these various juxtapositions (of the top of my head):

• Human vs. Cylon (obviously!): memories (Boomer), ability to feel pain/love (#6), torture, religion (Cylon, human)
• Military (Adama) vs. civilian rule (Roslin, Baltar, Zarek): politics, rights, freedoms, opposition vs. unity, law
• Galactica (Adama/defensive) vs. Pegasus (Cain/offensive): what is the role of military, to protect the fleet vs. fight the enemy; to run vs. to cannibilize the civilian fleet in the name of war
• Occupation/Caprica: armed resistance vs. adaptation & cooperation vs. abiding time, waiting for outside rescue
• Life vs. death: abortion, death penalty, self-sacrifice vs. diminishing # of survivors
• Following orders (Apollo) vs. instinct (Starbuck)

 

[OrphanProject]

I loved the original and have it on DVD. I bought the entire new Battlestar Galactica series on DVD as well. At first I didn't like the absence of the space battle and viper sound effects that were present in the original, but I quickly got over it. Really good series.

 

[Ringo84]

What are your thoughts on the show's ending?

(SPOILERS FOLLOW)


I liked the fact that the humans reached earth. It was a much more satisfying ending than if the Cylons had completely destroyed mankind.

A lot of fans seem to dislike Lee's suggestion that they get rid of their technology. I actually think that was fairly consistent with the show's theme, as it was technology that indirectly led to the humans having to flee the Twelve Colonies. And who says that the humans didn't take with them basic technological staples that would help them survive, such as weaponry or farming equipment?

Kara being some kind of angel who simply vanishes was pretty lame.

Any further thoughts?
Ringo

 

[Kalevalatar]

I loved the original and have it on DVD. I bought the entire new Battlestar Galactica series on DVD as well. At first I didn't like the absence of the space battle and viper sound effects that were present in the original, but I quickly got over it. Really good series.

The German RTL (I think) did re-run the original series some years ago. I tried to watch it for that nostalgia, I really did. Alas, I have to say, time has not been too kind, either for me or the series. I could so not get past the infantile special effects. And that ABBA-hair!

What are your thoughts on the show's ending?

(SPOILERS FOLLOW)


I liked the fact that the humans reached earth. It was a much more satisfying ending than if the Cylons had completely destroyed mankind.

A lot of fans seem to dislike Lee's suggestion that they get rid of their technology. I actually think that was fairly consistent with the show's theme, as it was technology that indirectly led to the humans having to flee the Twelve Colonies. And who says that the humans didn't take with them basic technological staples that would help them survive, such as weaponry or farming equipment?

Kara being some kind of angel who simply vanishes was pretty lame.

Any further thoughts?
Ringo

SPOILERS






A typical American series, the series ends on positive note. No surprise there. A European production would have the fleet reach the original Earth, only to find that past human activity -- a nuclear war/catastrophe, pollution -- has made the planet inhabitable and thus made them perpetual space refugees!

As to getting rid of their technology, it still leaves the door to ambiguity nicely ajar: humankind managed to create this technology (and that critical technological singularity) once, surely they can do it again.

Kara's "riding off and vanishing into the sunset" is in keeping with the American cinematic/storytelling (especially western) tradition, isn't it? That's the essential lone laconic if tragic rogue/borderline-outlaw-solitary-soul-drifter, almost Jesus-like super/hero, who bends many rules in order to save the law-abiding community from total destruction, only to discover that domesticity is not for him/her, cannot fit in. That's "Leatherstocking's" Hawkeye, Shane, John Wayne's Ethan in The Searchers, Eastwood's Stranger in the High Plains Drifter, John Rambo.

The academic explanation -- if you will -- goes that in order to so effectively fight the "natives"/outlaws/"savages" -- the Cylons in BG -- the hero has to become one, and thus cannot stay with the civilized society once peace is achieved and the enemy slain. From this viewpoint, it makes perfect sense that Kara "has to become part-Cylon," there are many points to demonstrate this (her ability to fly a Cylon Raider, for example, and her very motto: "Fear gets you killed. Anger keeps you alive"), to be the best ace of the fleet, and therefore she has no place in the primitive new earth society. Does this make sense?

 

[Blackguard_]

I'm old enough to remember the original series, so I expected an updated version of the entertainment-without-brains type of space opera with 21st century special effects and cool handsome young guys.

I'm not old enough to remember the original, although I have seen reruns, but I was not at all surprised with the change in tone. For one the tone of the OS was just plain inappropriately light for a small fleet of survivors fleeing for the lives after most of humanity is massacred.

Second, it was the 00's, and darker and edgier was 'in'. What you describe would have just been resulted in 'camp' had they attempted it. I can't say about the 70's one, but the 00's one is very much a product of it's times.

best of all, identity: what is humanity?

In that regard, I don't think the cylons where sufficient contrast. The human-cylons somehow being machines just seemed a bunch of malarky to me. I coould understand some Terminator-like infiltrators, it would add drama and tension and such, but they made the "machines" waaaaaaaay too human. The actual metallic models don't really feature all that much except as cannon fodder and pawns, their nature isn't really explored.

A typical American series, the series ends on positive note. No surprise there. A European production would have the fleet reach the original Earth, only to find that past human activity -- a nuclear war/catastrophe, pollution -- has made the planet inhabitable and thus made them perpetual space refugees!

They did that partially, they found the original Earth a post-apocalyptic ghost world and the "Earth", our Earth, they end the series on is just some planet they decided to call Earth after that last lucky/fateful jump.

And ends on a positive note? Throughout the series, they say "all this has happened before and will happen again" and the series ends with footage of modern day robots, implying the series could be a long set up for the rise of Skynet or the Matrix or something.

Maybe not enough of a downer ending for European sophisticates, but it's not a very positive.

Kara's "riding off and vanishing into the sunset" is in keeping with the American cinematic/storytelling (especially western) tradition, isn't it?

Good catch. I was thinking she was just a ghost with unfinished business.

 

[Kalevalatar]

I'm not old enough to remember the original, although I have seen reruns, but I was not at all surprised with the change in tone. For one the tone of the OS was just plain inappropriately light for a small fleet of survivors fleeing for the lives after most of humanity is massacred.

Second, it was the 00's, and darker and edgier was 'in'. What you describe would have just been resulted in 'camp' had they attempted it. I can't say about the 70's one, but the 00's one is very much a product of it's times.

I don't disagree with that 00's went for darker and edgier, but after the September 2001 terrorist attacks, lighter "feel-good" purely escapist fantasies were also in demand, so it could have gone that way.

I would also add "deeper," since I think that drama series overall have gotten better in quality in the last ten years or so.

Alas, at the time (believe it or not, kids! ), the original BG was definitely a notch up from the other space operas of the 70/80's: "Space: 1999" and "The Martian Chronicles."

In that regard, I don't think the cylons where sufficient contrast. The human-cylons somehow being machines just seemed a bunch of malarky to me. I coould understand some Terminator-like infiltrators, it would add drama and tension and such, but they made the "machines" waaaaaaaay too human. The actual metallic models don't really feature all that much except as cannon fodder and pawns, their nature isn't really explored.

Good point, now that you made it. The "toasters" really got their one and only moment late in the series when they mutined against the numbered Cylons over their proposed lobotomy.

Unlike you, I found that human vs. human-looking cylon malarky probably one of the most fascinating aspects in BG. But hey, maybe it's a mars/venus thing, and us ladies just are more likely to be drawn to that kind of internal psychobabble.

And ends on a positive note? Throughout the series, they say "all this has happened before and will happen again" and the series ends with footage of modern day robots, implying the series could be a long set up for the rise of Skynet or the Matrix or something.

Maybe not enough of a downer ending for European sophisticates, but it's not a very positive.

Admitted, "positive" is a relative term here. But for this cultural gap that does exist between Europe and America, European movies and TV series tend to end with "all is lost" note and the local audience loves it, while the American ones end with a glimmer of hope, even a tiniest one. And please note that this is not meant to be a qualitative statement. Quite often the commercial movies have two different endings: one for North American and the other for the International audience (of the top of my head, I'm thinking the most recent "Pride & Prejudice" version of the classic romance by Jane Austen and the British horror movie "The Descent"), and I tend to find both versions equally deserving.

A true French "artsy" ending for BG would have been a real downer: you invest your time to follow these survivors for four seasons, and then the producers kill them all?!? What a waste of time that would have been!

I also like how they brought over the "old" OS Apollo with all that rebellious baggage.

 

[Ringo84]

I don't disagree with that 00's went for darker and edgier, but after the September 2001 terrorist attacks, lighter "feel-good" purely escapist fantasies were also in demand, so it could have gone that way.

I would also add "deeper," since I think that drama series overall have gotten better in quality in the last ten years or so.

Alas, at the time (believe it or not, kids!

), the original BG was definitely a notch up from the other space operas of the 70/80's: "Space: 1999" and "The Martian Chronicles."

I admittedly haven't seen too much of the original series, but I would estimate that the new BSG is MUCH deeper and darker than the original. That's not a bad thing at all.

Unlike you, I found that human vs. human-looking cylon malarky probably one of the most fascinating aspects in BG. But hey, maybe it's a mars/venus thing, and us ladies just are more likely to be drawn to that kind of internal psychobabble.

I'm surprised that someone didn't like the human-like cylons. That added a lot of drama to the series and kept viewers guessing about what would happen next.

In fact, I wish that the Final Five had taken a different route. I was hoping that the humans would find out that the Final Five were in the human fleet, and that there would be a season-long arc where they tried to figure out who the offending parties were.

Instead, we got an uninteresting season-long soap opera.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

Just occurred to me to ask: Has anyone ever played the board game?

I actually played the game with friends before I had ever seen an episode of BSG. If you're willing to make a commitment (most games take a couple of hours), it's a pretty good game!

For those new to the series, nothing was spoiled for me by playing the game. In fact, several little game play items made more sense in hindsight after I had finished the series.
Ringo

 

[jiminpa]

I tried watching Melrose Space and within a half hour found myself hating every character so much that I wished they would all kill each other and get it over with. What a horrible waste of a once-good title. If that show had started with it's own name no one would have made through the first 30 minutes.

 

[Tamara224]

I just watched the series start to finish in the last two weeks (I love Netflix) and I have a new all time favorite sci-fi drama as well as a new favorite actress (Mary McAwesome, indeed), favorite character, and favorite love story.

I loved the original BSG when I was a kid, it was a family favorite. When the new mini series aired, I watched it and liked it. But my schedule was crazy and BSGs schedule was even crazier so I quickly fell behind on the series. (The days before I had DVR). I always planned to watch it eventually and I'm so very glad I did.

The depth of the characters in this series far surpasses anything I've ever seen on TV before. Most books don't even go that deep. There aren't any cliched characters. Every last one is multidimensional and changeable and real. They put a human face on it, "warts and all".

***Spoilers***

I did feel a bit of disappointment at the finale. I think it was mostly the same disappointment that I feel when I finish a good book - sorry that it's over, sad that I won't get to learn more about the people.

Some disappointment came from the fact that the last scenes of the colonists showed them walking off with the clothes on their backs and small backpacks. It left the impression that they took absolutely nothing from the ships to further their survival. I have a hard enough time believing that all 40,000 people would agree with Lee Adama's decision to abandon technology and fly the fleet into the sun... I find it impossible to believe that they wouldn't have cannibalized the ships to make tools, at the very least. How are they going to survive even a few weeks without basic tools like knives, saws, axes, spears and hammers, etc? Answer: they wouldn't. Even if they did have the knowledge they needed to keep them in bronze age level technology, they didn't have any tools to get ore, refine it or smelt or even smith it. Even if they know how to farm, they don't have seeds or plows or hoes, etc.

So, I had a difficult time suspending my disbelief at that point, it kind of ruined it for me. I think it would have been better if the writers had tied that up a little better, showing the colonists begin actually breaking ground with a plow made of a Viper's nose or something...

Another thing that disappointed me and which I found difficult to believe was that the Adama men were apparently never going to see each other again. Starbuck told Lee that "he isn't coming back" when Bill flew off with Laura. But, after all they've been through and after they both just lost the loves of their lives, I find it implausible that Bill and Lee wouldn't want companionship with one another. (In my imagination, Bill builds his cabin and spends time in solitude for a few months, then decides Laura wouldn't want him to pine away at his grave for the rest of his life and goes to find Lee. And/or Lee goes exploring for a bit, spends some time in solitude, then decides to go see if he can find where his dad went.)

I'm not sure how I feel about Starbuck. I thought she was a Cylon after she came back to life. I haven't processed the angel idea, yet. Some things don't seem to fit quite right. But I was satisfied with her disappearing when her task was done. When the series started, I really wanted Starbuck and Apollo to get together. But as it progressed, I decided they really weren't meant to be together, really weren't good for one another. So, in the lead up to the finale, when D killed herself and then when Anders was flying into the sun... I thought "well, maybe Starbuck and Apollo really will get together" and I was ambivalent. When she vanished into thin air, it seemed really fitting to me (after I got over the initial shock).

The very end, with the 6 and Gaius 'angels' in present day was a bit hokey, I thought. And unnecessary. I think we figured it out that humans and cylons (and neanderthals, apparently) were going to interbreed and make a new "human". We didn't need to be told that Hera was mitochondrial Eve. I felt like it detracted from the story a bit to end so far removed from the characters.

That being said, I cried like a baby during most of the last episode. And that is my ultimate test. If a story or a character can bring me to tears, the storytellers did a great job, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Kalevalatar]

I just watched the series start to finish in the last two weeks (I love Netflix) and I have a new all time favorite sci-fi drama as well as a new favorite actress (Mary McAwesome, indeed), favorite character, and favorite love story.

I love love stories and romance! No story is complete without one... So I'm wondering, does this your favorite love story refer to Adama & Roslin, or Apollo & Starbuck?

My favorite romantic couple was Helo & Sharon/Boomer/Athena. Although I agree with you that *most* characters had real depth & breadth, which was awesome, Helo was rather one-note, though: an honorable, dutiful soldier, and that was pretty much it. The Sharon/Number Eight, in turn, was one of the most complex of the complex ones. Obviously, Athena's & Helo's battling their way out of Caprica was quite romantic, but I also liked the complexity of the triangles there: Boomer-Tyrol-Athena-Helo -- and the baby, of course.

Not so much of a fan of the on-off/aborted like fifteen times Lee & Kara story, though. I very much liked that they made Starbuck a real action heroine, with "warts and all" , as opposed to the big-boobs, supermodel-long-legs, and a face-to-launch-a-thousand-ships as personified by Lara Croft/Ms. Jolie. Real, pro-active heroines like Kara are still very much an unborn breed, I think. There's Ripley and there's Sarah Connor (the movies, not the series), and that's about it. Dark Angel-Max and Alias-Sidney still, for all that effort, fall somewhere between. So I kind of felt that Starbuck's character went unnecessarily gooey whenever the possibility to get it on with Apollo was brought in to the script. As I said before, I'm so glad they made her, not him, Apollo, the "lone st/ranger" for a major change.

[My humble (lol -- not!) advice to the script writers out there: every story should have a romance, or even the tiniest hint of, because we humans are wired that way. However, when the story already has several romances going on, there is no need to give *every single* character an on-screen romance. Thank you.]

So, I had a difficult time suspending my disbelief at that point, it kind of ruined it for me. I think it would have been better if the writers had tied that up a little better, showing the colonists begin actually breaking ground with a plow made of a Viper's nose or something...

Very good points re: the most rudimental technology, now that you mention it. I just went with the story & arch and did not stop to consider this. And you are right, it really would have taken only a brief image.

Re: endings. Why is it that so often, too often, they feel rushed and underdeveloped, even when the characters and story arch are so very well & fully exploited as they are in BG(S)?

Another thing that disappointed me and which I found difficult to believe was that the Adama men were apparently never going to see each other again. Starbuck told Lee that "he isn't coming back" when Bill flew off with Laura. But, after all they've been through and after they both just lost the loves of their lives, I find it implausible that Bill and Lee wouldn't want companionship with one another. (In my imagination, Bill builds his cabin and spends time in solitude for a few months, then decides Laura wouldn't want him to pine away at his grave for the rest of his life and goes to find Lee. And/or Lee goes exploring for a bit, spends some time in solitude, then decides to go see if he can find where his dad went.)

I always saw the Adama men as the kind of who'd put their (military) duty first and family only second. The story pitted them on the opposites sides more than once, and not once did they compromise their position -- duty, integrity -- in favor of those family ties.

That being said, I cried like a baby during most of the last episode. And that is my ultimate test. If a story or a character can bring me to tears, the storytellers did a great job, as far as I'm concerned.

Thankfully, McMillan/Tor Books puts out those Galactica-series e-books at a very reasonable price for us diehards!

The first book in the series is available in here, for FREE, in downloadable .PDF format if you don't have a reader. Enjoy!

 

[Tamara224]

I love love stories and romance! No story is complete without one... So I'm wondering, does this your favorite love story refer to Adama & Roslin, or Apollo & Starbuck?

Gaius and Caprica 6.


Nah, just kiddin. Adama and Roslin. I love their romance. I really liked Helo & Sharon/Athena, too.

Thankfully, McMillan/Tor Books puts out those Galactica-series e-books at a very reasonable price for us diehards!

The first book in the series is available in here, for FREE, in downloadable .PDF format if you don't have a reader. Enjoy!

Thanks!