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Barry Setterfield's Plasma Cosmology with Zero Point Energy

Hans Blaster

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I see you've also posted in the 'non-mainstream' folder. That's probably a better place for replies on this.

Our you could respond to /dev/null

Isn't this spam? I see no attempt to discuss it.
 
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AV1611VET

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I'm looking for people who are actively following up on Barry Setterfield's work on Zero Point Energy Plasma Cosmology. You can find his website here: barrysetterfield.org
I think he's the one who showed that light traveled faster in the past, didn't he?

Do you have Chuck Missler's CREATION SERIES videos?
 
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I think he's the one who showed that light traveled faster in the past, didn't he?
In practical sense, yes, to be more precise the intrinsic speed of light didn't change, but is slowed down by interactions with virtual particle pairs that are caused by the Zero Point Energy. The existence of these virtual particle pairs is indicated by experiments like the Casimir effect. Barry's Cosmology assumes the ZPE didn't yet exist right after the creation event, but came into existence via Planck's Particle Pairs that which in turn came into existence by the stretching of the Universe which was a direct act of God. With the none existence of the ZPE, or only with still very low value, the light of speed was at or near its intrinsic speed.

Do you have Chuck Missler's CREATION SERIES videos?
No I don't have these
 
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AV1611VET

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In practical sense, yes, to be more precise the intrinsic speed of light didn't change, but is slowed down by interactions with virtual particle pairs that are caused by the Zero Point Energy. The existence of these virtual particle pairs is indicated by experiments like the Casimir effect. Barry's Cosmology assumes the ZPE didn't yet exist right after the creation event, but came into existence via Planck's Particle Pairs that which in turn came into existence by the stretching of the Universe which was a direct act of God. With the none existence of the ZPE, or only with still very low value, the light of speed was at or near its intrinsic speed.
Some time ago we had a poster on this site who was [almost] a Mensan, and he said the speed of light has never changed, but appears to slow down because it hits particles along its path and "ping-pongs" its way to the observer.

Meaning it doesn't slow down, but travels farther.

I'll see if I can find his post.
 
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This isn't it, but it comes close: Ask a physicist anything. (7)

Here's another one: Ask a physicist anything. (6)
Right, and just like actual atoms slow down photons, likewise the virtual particles that pop in and out of existance where zpe waves collide will slow down photons.

Because the zpe is intrinsic to the complete universe, the amount of these virtual particles will be the same everywhere, and the numbers in which they exist is enormous, hence the delay it causes on photons is huge.

Right after the creation event there was no zpe yet and hence the speed of light was at it's full maximum.
 
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Yttrium

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In practical sense, yes, to be more precise the intrinsic speed of light didn't change, but is slowed down by interactions with virtual particle pairs that are caused by the Zero Point Energy. The existence of these virtual particle pairs is indicated by experiments like the Casimir effect. Barry's Cosmology assumes the ZPE didn't yet exist right after the creation event, but came into existence via Planck's Particle Pairs that which in turn came into existence by the stretching of the Universe which was a direct act of God. With the none existence of the ZPE, or only with still very low value, the light of speed was at or near its intrinsic speed.

Wouldn't that cause significant scattering? We should be able to detect something like that for light coming from distant galaxies.
 
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Wouldn't that cause significant scattering? We should be able to detect something like that for light coming from distant galaxies.
The virtual particles will not affect any of the properties of the photons that are captured by it, the photon is "released" because the virtual particle pairs are annihilated almost instantly when they recombine. So this release process is different from the process with regular atoms. So the only result would be a miliscule delay of the photon for each encounter with a virtual particle, it's the massive amount of virtual particles that adds up to an enormous decrease of the light speed.
 
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Hans Blaster

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This (Setterfield's "cosmology") is far dumber than I thought. I'll need some time to figure out how deep the failure is. (When I do, the alternate thread on the "non-mainstream" sub-forum will be the venue.
 
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sjastro

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This (Setterfield's "cosmology") is far dumber than I thought. I'll need some time to figure out how deep the failure is. (When I do, the alternate thread on the "non-mainstream" sub-forum will be the venue.
Haven't seen the details but if it involves light being "slowed down" by scattering raises serious concerns.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Haven't seen the details but if it involves light being "slowed down" by scattering raises serious concerns.

There is some sort of nonsense about "zero point energy" interacting with atoms and (because it "changes") shifting the wavelength of *emitted* light with time. Ugh.
 
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There is some sort of nonsense about "zero point energy" interacting with atoms and (because it "changes") shifting the wavelength of *emitted* light with time. Ugh.

Well, I try to treat ideas like this as science fiction concepts. Try to roll them around in my head and make them work somehow, despite the damage to Occam's Razor.

Needs more rolling.
 
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There is some sort of nonsense about "zero point energy" interacting with atoms and (because it "changes") shifting the wavelength of *emitted* light with time. Ugh.
Your description seems to be a bit too simplified. What I understand to be the thesis is that zpe would be a key influencer of the atomic energy. With an assumed lower zpe in the past the atomic energy would be lower, thus light that was emitted at that time would also be of lower energy, thus with lower wave lenght, thus more redish.

As you start mocking the idea right of the bat I take it you have well established grounds for rejecting this thesis, would you be so kind to explain in laymans terms why this wouldn't be possible?
 
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Well, I try to treat ideas like this as science fiction concepts. Try to roll them around in my head and make them work somehow, despite the damage to Occam's Razor.

Needs more rolling.
So you're saying you don't take these ideas seriousely right of the bat, not giving them a fair consideration at all? Why do you take this position? It does resemble a lot to the responses of the current woke culture...
 
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Haven't seen the details but if it involves light being "slowed down" by scattering raises serious concerns.
See post 11, what I understand from it (just a layman talking here...) is that the properties of the photons (like wavelenght, intrinsic speed or direction) would not be affected by the interaction with the virtual particles (that pop into and out of existence from the zpe) but that only a small delay in transition would occur.
 
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sjastro

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See post 11, what I understand from it (just a layman talking here...) is that the properties of the photons (like wavelenght, intrinsic speed or direction) would not be affected by the interaction with the virtual particles (that pop into and out of existence from the zpe) but that only a small delay in transition would occur.
Photons interact with particles and fields through scattering.
(1) Photons being elastically or inelastically scattered by particles such as electrons.
This which can be treated as a two particle collision where the electron can either be initially at rest or moving.
scattering.png
The photon does not slow down for either elastic or inelastic collisions and travels at the speed of light c before and after the collision.
The photon energy is defined by the equation E = hc/λ and if the collision is inelastic the photon loses energy due to an increase in its wavelength λ but it doesn't slow down.

(2) Photons being scattered by the electric field surrounding a charged particle such as an electron.
75px-Delbruck_scattering.svg.png
In this case the electromagnetic field surrounding the electron can be treated as an electromagnetic vacuum which is a field in the lowest energy state or the zero point energy.
This field undergoes vacuum polarization which results in the formation of virtual particle/antiparticle pairs.
The scattering of a photon in the electromagnetic field is explained by photons being scattered by these virtual particles in a process known as Delbrück scattering.

This is quite the opposite to your explanation in post #11; photons are not captured and released after the virtual particle pair disappears and as with scattering involving particles the velocity of the photon remains the same before and after collisions.
Furthermore only high energy photons can interact since virtual particle/antiparticle pairs have high energies as they have a short lived Δt value as defined by the Heisenberg energy time relationship ΔEΔt ≥ h/4pi
Scattering of photons by virtual particles is always an elastic collision.
 
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sjastro

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There is some sort of nonsense about "zero point energy" interacting with atoms and (because it "changes") shifting the wavelength of *emitted* light with time. Ugh.
I've lost count the of the number of plasma cosmology models out there but this generic it interacts with matter causing redshift (insert mechanism here) are all destroyed by a simple observation; some photons emitted from the CMB are polarized as they are Thomson scattered by the plasma formed some 300,000 odd years after the BB.

These photons are still polarized when they reach us which means they were never inelastically scattered and redshifted as a result.
The expansion of space-time is the only explanation where CMB photons reach us still polarized but redshifted.
 
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