Baptists in History

[JM]

To find baptists in history, we simply turn to the Bible and find the marks of a New Testament Church. History has been written (and rewritten) by those in power, the idea that history is honest is a new idea and a false one.

 

[JM]

PS: I should have written, history isn't always honest.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Thank you for posting that.
We need a sticky for Baptist History so that those who come here know what the false claims are and what the facts are.
GEL

 

[crazy4Christ007]

 

[JM]

As a believer in sola scriptura/Bible alone those who reject the Bible as 'not enough' are the true protestants. They protest against God by denying the power of God's written word.

Baptists are found where the Bible is found.

I feel better now that I said it.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Im going to have to disagree with you. The denial of historical facts by the unfounded claim that it has been rewritten seems to me like an attmpt to justify the baptists' point of view.

The point is, All history is written/rewritten from someone's POV.

The more $$ you have, the better job you can do.

 

[eldermike]

The people who 'write history' are the scholars that study the ancient texts honetly and without bias. If you began reading some patristic documents with honesty, those which are unanimously considered genuine, you would probably let some of these highly skeptical claims go.

Let's not debate this, wrong forum for this.

The process of using facts is a bigger issue than what is and what is not a fact. How it's used, interperted, applied, these are real issues. Even if we could get beyond the area of bias in historical writing (Custer was a great indian fighter or was he a terrorist? - Bush is a liar, or Bush was misled?), we are left with the process of using the facts. We reject your process, so there is no need to go into the facts. We use the bible for facts and read history with intrest but never apart from the bible.
Mike

 

[Filia Mariae]

History has been written (and rewritten) by those in power, the idea that history is honest is a new idea and a false one.

SP,

I don't want you to have a heart attack or anything , but the feminists agree with you on this one. The word used for this philosophy is "deconstructionism."

 

[JM]

This little bit of rewritting history takes place about 20 years ago, the LDS Church had heard about documents containing facts about the early days of the mormon Church. The LDSC started to buy up everything it could, mainly documents that discredited Joey Smith and locked them up in a vault for no one to see. The joke was on them, they bought over 400 items and they were all fakes.

This story does go to point, people in power WILL rewrite history given the chance.

Do you think it could have happened 2000 years ago? Sure thing. Don't believe everything you read unless it's in the Bible.

 

[Crazy Liz]

This story does go to point, people in power WILL rewrite history given the chance.

Do you think it could have happened 2000 years ago? Sure thing. Don't believe everything you read unless it's in the Bible.

SP, I'm wondering exactly how you reach this conclusion. Without any regard to history, how do you know the Bible has this special status not shared with anything else?

 

[ShyBoy]

This story does go to point, people in power WILL rewrite history given the chance.

Do you think it could have happened 2000 years ago? Sure thing. Don't believe everything you read unless it's in the Bible.

Why do you not put the Bible under the same scrutiny? Is not the Bible also a work of History? Could it not have been tampered with as well? How do we know that we are reading the same gospel that was preached 2000 years ago?

 

[JM]

Why do you not put the Bible under the same scrutiny? Is not the Bible also a work of History? Could it not have been tampered with as well? How do we know that we are reading the same gospel that was preached 2000 years ago?

I have the same faith in the Bible that you have for the Latin Catholic Church, it's that simple. As for history, the ECF's lead me to the Baptist faith.

 

[Abba]

I have the same faith in the Bible that you have for the Latin Catholic Church, it's that simple. As for history, the ECF's lead me to the Baptist faith.

Erm...theres no contradiction between the bible and "The latin catholic church" (why dont you just call it the catholic church?)

And as far as history goes, the ECFs only lead me closer to the Catholic Church

 

[@@Paul@@]

Erm...theres no contradiction between the bible and "The latin catholic church" (why dont you just call it the catholic church?)

And as far as history goes, the ECFs only lead me closer to the Catholic Church

According to ANY "denomination", there's NO contradiction between the Bible and one's beliefs and/or traditions...

Act 17:11 ...they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.​

 

[@@Paul@@]

Why do you not put the Bible under the same scrutiny? Is not the Bible also a work of History? Could it not have been tampered with as well? How do we know that we are reading the same gospel that was preached 2000 years ago?

I believe I have EXACTLY what God wants me to have.

The Bible is NOT a work of history, it's a work of God!!

 

[ShyBoy]

I believe I have EXACTLY what God wants me to have.

The Bible is NOT a work of history, it's a work of God!!

Again, I come to the same question. How does one know that the Bible is a work of God and not just another work of history that can contain errors or corruptions? I mean it was writen and copied by human hands, was it not? Humans make errors and mistakes, right? What is the basis that the Bible is excepted from errors and corruptions?

 

[@@Paul@@]

Again, I come to the same question. How does one know that the Bible is a work of God and not just another work of history that can contain errors or corruptions? I mean it was writen and copied by human hands, was it not? Humans make errors and mistakes, right? What is the basis that the Bible is excepted from errors and corruptions?

Because God said He would.... And I believe him.....

Logic would say that man has messed up God's words while it was being copied and translated.... Human logic usually fails to see God's hand (Greek seek after knowledge).

Rom 1:20 KJV
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:​

........Logic keeps most man from believing.

Heb 11:1-2 KJV
(1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
(2) For by it the elders obtained a good report.​

It's the invisible things we are to have faith in...

Psa 12:6-7 KJV
(6) The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
(7) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.​

...It may not immediately LOOK like God did what He said He would do, but His hand has been preserving His words for over 4000 years. I have faith that He is.

 

[RED that's ME]

MOD HAT ON

This will NOT turn into a debate between Baptist/AnaBaptist and Catholics. NonBaptist/AnaBaptist are reminded to remember the rules of the Baptist forum.


1) This forum is open to all Christians. Non-Christian members are not allowed to post here.

2) Baptist/Anabaptist, as well as all members of the Congregational Forums can post fellowship threads here. Only Baptist/Anabaptist members are allowed to debate threads to discuss various doctrines to do with their own denomination and other denominations (including the Catholic church), as long as they are within our rules.

3) Non-Baptist/Anabaptist members (eg. Catholic,Charasmatic, Weselyan, Lutheran, etc... members) can only post fellowship posts here or posts to ask a question regarding Baptist/Anabaptist doctrine. Once the question is answered, there shall be no debate over the answer in this forum by the Non-Baptist/Anabaptist members. Any debate posts by Non-Baptist/Anabaptist members will be deleted or moved to the appropriate forum. In other words, only Baptist/Anabaptist members can debate here.

4) No posts that denigrate a Christian denomination or Christian group will not be tolerated - these will be deleted and the poster will be warned.

Basically, we do NOT allow accusations that a particular Christian denomination or group is non-Christian. That is the bottom line. Debates regarding doctrine is allowed (for Baptist/Anabaptist members only). Accusations are not.



MOD HAT OFF

 

[Crazy Liz]

I'm wondering why Paul and SP chose to respond to the question posted by Shy Boy and not to the similar one I posted (Post #10 in this thread) from a Baptist/Anabaptist POV.

 

[ShyBoy]

Because God said He would.... And I believe him.....



Logic would say that man has messed up God's words while it was being copied and translated.... Human logic usually fails to see God's hand (Greek seek after knowledge).

Rom 1:20 KJV

(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
​

........Logic keeps most man from believing.

Heb 11:1-2 KJV

(1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
(2) For by it the elders obtained a good report.
​

It's the invisible things we are to have faith in...

Psa 12:6-7 KJV

(6) The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
(7) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
​

...It may not immediately LOOK like God did what He said He would do, but His hand has been preserving His words for over 4000 years. I have faith that He is.

Do you (or Baptists in general) consider reason and logic to be counter to faith? Can one have faith without reason? Without reason what would one base their faith upon?