Baptists and Non Denominational. Remarriage.

[dbhost]

Just fishing for folks take on this, but I want you to back your opinion up with God's word.

Please post chapter and verse what you believe is God's view of marriage, divorce, and remarriage. Is divorce always wrong? Is it sometimes permissible? What consitutes a marriage in the first place? Is remarriage ever acceptable.

Remember to use your words to build one another up, and not to tear down. I know this is an important issue with passionate views each way. Please be respectful and courteous with your words.

 

[DMagoh]

Just fishing for folks take on this, but I want you to back your opinion up with God's word.

Please post chapter and verse what you believe is God's view of marriage, divorce, and remarriage. Is divorce always wrong? Is it sometimes permissible? What consitutes a marriage in the first place? Is remarriage ever acceptable.

Remember to use your words to build one another up, and not to tear down. I know this is an important issue with passionate views each way. Please be respectful and courteous with your words.

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32

Jesus gave the "marital unfaithfulness" exception for divorce being acceptable.

Regarding remarriage - should someone who has been divorced remarry? Jesus said that anyone that divorces his wife (without the above exception) CAUSES her to become an adulteress. Notice the word "causes". It doesnt say, she CANT ever get remarried because she would be an adulteress, it says the man who divorced her CAUSES her to be one. In other words, Jesus expected the woman to get remarried. She was FORCED to become an adulteress by the man who divorced her without good reason. If Jesus didnt think someone should get remarried, He would have said she SHOULDNT or CANT get remarried. By using the word CAUSES, I think it means the man has FORCED her hand.

 

[Brieuse]

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32

Jesus gave the "marital unfaithfulness" exception for divorce being acceptable.

Regarding remarriage - should someone who has been divorced remarry? Jesus said that anyone that divorces his wife (without the above exception) CAUSES her to become an adulteress. Notice the word "causes". It doesnt say, she CANT ever get remarried because she would be an adulteress, it says the man who divorced her CAUSES her to be one. In other words, Jesus expected the woman to get remarried. She was FORCED to become an adulteress by the man who divorced her without good reason. If Jesus didnt think someone should get remarried, He would have said she SHOULDNT or CANT get remarried. By using the word CAUSES, I think it means the man has FORCED her hand.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[KarrieTex]

You have forgotten one.

Paul wrote that if you are married to an unbeliever and they want a divorce to give it to them but you can not start the divorce.

This begs the question though and I have one issue with this from most.

What about abuse in the marriage? Do you actually think God would not allow a divorce when there is abuse of any kind?

My thoughts is the convenant between a husband and wife is broken and thus nullifies a marriage in this regard.

 

[HuntingMan]

You have forgotten one.

Paul wrote that if you are married to an unbeliever and they want a divorce to give it to them but you can not start the divorce.

This begs the question though and I have one issue with this from most.

What about abuse in the marriage? Do you actually think God would not allow a divorce when there is abuse of any kind?

My thoughts is the convenant between a husband and wife is broken and thus nullifies a marriage in this regard.

Actually, if you look at the greek on that one and also at Pauls statement, it is not absolute, but quite conditional.

"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:
If any brother hath a wife that believeth not,
and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

(1Co 7:12)

*IF* this brother has an unbelieving wife and she is 'pleased' to stay with him then let him not put her away.
Its conditional in its intent.
If this isnt the case that she is 'pleased' then possibly he can put her away.

What does 'pleased' mean there?
Some say it is a one sided thing, but the greek shows something entirely different.

G4909

1) to be pleased together with, to approve together (with others)

2) to be pleased at the same time with, consent, agree to

2a) to applaud



It is completely bogus to say that the clear intent does not show that a mutual pleasing is very plainly present in the greek.

Now, does this mean we just toss them out if we arent happy?
By no means, the context of the passage shows that we dont just end the marriage because we are saved and they arent, but I do believe that this conditional statement made by Paul does give allowance in cases of abuse, where neither party is 'pleased' in any way at all, to put this spouse away.

 

[KarrieTex]

Actually, if you look at the greek on that one and also at Pauls statement, it is not absolute, but quite conditional.

"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:
If any brother hath a wife that believeth not,
and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

(1Co 7:12)

*IF* this brother has an unbelieving wife and she is 'pleased' to stay with him then let him not put her away.
Its conditional in its intent.
If this isnt the case that she is 'pleased' then possibly he can put her away.

What does 'pleased' mean there?
Some say it is a one sided thing, but the greek shows something entirely different.

G4909

1) to be pleased together with, to approve together (with others)

2) to be pleased at the same time with, consent, agree to

2a) to applaud



It is completely bogus to say that the clear intent does not show that a mutual pleasing is very plainly present in the greek.

Now, does this mean we just toss them out if we arent happy?
By no means, the context of the passage shows that we dont just end the marriage because we are saved and they arent, but I do believe that this conditional statement made by Paul does give allowance in cases of abuse, where neither party is 'pleased' in any way at all, to put this spouse away.

I am sorry but you completely missed my point and assumed incorrectly.

I wasn't saying that we are to divorce them if they are not believers. My words were if they WANTED IT to give it to them.

 

[mdaniel]

Does the woman continue to be an adulteress if she repents and is forgiven?

 

[TheBandRain]

My parents are currently in a divorce. My mother, my little brother and I moved out this month actually. My dad was abusive to us all. He smashed a bowl over my mom's head a few years ago and when she called the police and had my dad threatened with jail he never hit her again. But since then he has verbally abused us all. Constantly yelling, constantly complaining about the way the house looks when it's clean, no peace in the home.

3 years ago I began to have panic attacks, I had to go into a mental hospital for 5 days, I've been on 6 different medications and I've been to 3 different shrinks. This was all because of my situation at home. My mother has clinical depression and can no longer handle the abuse that goes on in the home. She only wants to die. If it wasn't for my music ministry and my ambitions to go into the Air Force (I leave for basic training in June) I wouldn't have made it. It got to the point where I didn't want to serve God. I didn't know how I could with all the stress and torment. Same with my mom.

If this doesn't constitute as a good reason to divorce, then I don't know what does.

I believe that God helped us get out of the situation. No, he didn't break up our home, it was already destroyed, but he gave us a place to go. God filled our new house with furniture in one day. We only had a couch, futon and a chair to begin with. I say all that to say that I believe based on my situation that God will help those that are being abused in a marriage. I think it's no sin for my mom to leave my dad.

If your spouse is mentally or physically abusing you and will not change then you should leave them.

 

[phoenixgw]

TheBandRain - My parents are currently in a divorce. My mother, my little brother and I moved out this month actually. My dad was abusive to us all. He smashed a bowl over my mom's head a few years ago and when she called the police and had my dad threatened with jail he never hit her again. But since then he has verbally abused us all. Constantly yelling, constantly complaining about the way the house looks when it's clean, no peace in the home.

.

"Therefore what God has joined together, let no man separate." (Mark 10:9)

This was my life 25 years ago. I knew God had nothing to do with this marital union. Ever since I was 4 years old, I wanted to kill my Dad. He would get drunk and burn my moles with hot pins, telling me he was killing wood ticks. I remember standing over him with a steak knife while he was sleeping. He was so big, I couldn't decide where to stick him. He opened his eyes and I ran; luckily he didn't see the knife.

In my teens, I didn't need to wait till he was asleep to fight back. Every day he'd come home from work and pick on somebody. One day I got a call that my Dad was beating his mother with a broomstick. That was it. Whatever was left of my family, I destroyed.

The police were called, my parents divorced, my grandmother died of a stroke and my younger sister ran away. My brother went to Japan to teach English. After I got out of jail, I found my own place and got a job. My mother is happily married now, as is my sister (20 years). My brother still travels the world, while I searched out this Jesus during my travels. I fought him as hard as I could, but eventually I gave up and he found me.

He told me that I had built so many walls around myself, not even he could come in. Then he was gone and the walls fell. I was 'born again' as they say, leaving behind a life I hated and a person I didn't like very much. Looking back, it was pretty easy to "hand over the keys" of my life to Jesus.

I once read one of those booklets that talked about happy marriages. The only way it works is if both partners have Christ sitting in the throne of their lives and as servants of the Lord, each puts the needs of the other partner ahead of one's own. It's a nice idea. I'd like to try it sometime.

Maybe between the dark trials of life I've experienced as a Christian, I will be afforded that opportunity. It seems that I while I have the gift to restore peace and harmony to other people's lives, I have no real life of my own. Looking back on my life, it's a small cross to bear.

 

[Stinker]

In the 1st century, the other members of the nuclear family were not recognized as important as the father. Surely there must have been as terrible abuse back then as there is today. The family of the abuser just had to endure it. Even though it caused many a wife to die. She had no where else to go and no other way to make a living, unless she became a prostitute.

Today a Christian woman can divorce her husband for abusing her (physically and/or emotionally) through the secular civil court and some churches will still maintain that she is still bound to her husband in God's eyes because the divorce was not because of her husband committing adultery. If the marriage was so abusive, they were divorced already in God's eyes.

 

[Yona]

Just fishing for folks take on this, but I want you to back your opinion up with God's word.

Please post chapter and verse what you believe is God's view of marriage, divorce, and remarriage. Is divorce always wrong? Is it sometimes permissible? What consitutes a marriage in the first place? Is remarriage ever acceptable.

Remember to use your words to build one another up, and not to tear down. I know this is an important issue with passionate views each way. Please be respectful and courteous with your words.

• Malachi 2:16 says that God hates divorce. “ For the LORD God of Israel says
  That He hates divorce,
  For it covers one’s garment with violence,”
  Says the LORD of hosts.
  
  “ Therefore take heed to your spirit,
  That you do not deal treacherously.”
• Mark 10:2-9 explains that God created male and female, and that they shall leave their parents and be joined in one flesh. Jesus goes on to say that "what God has joined together, let no man seperate". "The Pharisees came and asked Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” testing Him.
  And He answered and said to them, “What did Moses command you?”
  They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her.”
  And Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
• Mark 10:10-12 says that those who divorce and marry again are guilty of adultery. "In the house His disciples also asked Him again about the same matter. So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”
• Hebrews 13:4 tells us that adulterers will be judged. "Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."
• However, Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9 provide one exception to the rule. If you divorce your spouse because they committed sexual immorality, you are not sinning. Furthermore, the one who divorced the immoral spouse would not be guilty of adultery if they remarried, because they committed no wrong in the first place. Their former spouse was the one who broke the marriage. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

So my beliefs on this are pretty cut and dry. You can't divorce your spouse unless they commit sexual immorality, and you divorce them for that reason, then you are not sinning if you enter into another marriage.

 

[phoenixgw]

Let's say Stinker marries Yona. I see Stinker one day and say, "Stinker, have you stopped beating your wife?" Stinker says nothing.

Then the next day I see Yona with a black eye. "Till death do us part, right Yona?" She replies, "Yes, I hope Stinker likes rat poison with his eggs."

All is well in Theologyland.

 

[Yona]

Let's say Stinker marries Yona. I see Stinker one day and say, "Stinker, have you stopped beating your wife?" Stinker says nothing.

Then the next day I see Yona with a black eye. "Till death do us part, right Yona?" She replies, "Yes, I hope Stinker likes rat poison with his eggs."

All is well in Theologyland.

Tehe.

You make a good point of course, but even if my husband was abusive to me, I would still be committing sin if I divorced him. It would have been a result of my bad choice (marrying an abusive man).

The Bible gives only ONE reason for divorce, and that is sexual immorality. No other grounds for divorce besides that. Period.

I could kill him, true, but then I would have murder on my head. And I wouldn't want that.

 

[phoenixgw]

It's not apparent in Mark, because the book is primarily written for Romans (notice how Mark explains Jewish customs), but Jesus is speaking to Jews.

In Matthew, it is a lot clearer to see what Jesus is telling people as High Priest and King. Before Jesus came, Jews followed the Law (Pentateuch) and the Talmud (oral tradition, 613 laws, etc.). The Pharisees had these memorized.

Jesus numerous sermonettes after the Beatitudes indicate that following the law is no longer good enough to get into heaven. One's righteousness had to exceed that of the Law and the Pharisees to enter heaven. Jesus has raised the bar from behavioural righteousness to spiritual righteousness. Jesus' basic message to the people is, "If you want to enter the kingdom of God, you're going to have to trust me."

From about the middle of Matthew 6 to the end of Matthew 7, Jesus is telling people to "let go and let God." If you think of trust as a set of keys to your relationships, ambitions, pleasures, treasured items, decisions, etc., Jesus wants the whole key ring; he wants you to give him your life so that you might be made righteous by his perfect sacrifice and be 'spiritually reborn.' It is then that we can be led by the Holy Spirit to our High Priest Jesus, whom we know and trust with our lives to pray prayers of Confession (a response to His Holiness), Worship (a response to His Glory), Praise (a response to His attributes), Thanksgiving (a response to His blessings), and boldly go to throne of God the Father with our prayers of Petition (asking for God's provision) and Intercession (asking God to intercede in a matter of divine importance).

Once one has begun a spiritual relationship with Jesus, issues of dating, marriage, and separation are no longer your issues; they are His once you've let them go in prayer. People that trust their lives to the Lord receive answers--sometimes the answer is on the tip of your tongue before you finish the prayer. Who can go back to theology and debate after experiencing divine revelation?

Leave matters of lawful conduct to the Pharisees.

 

[Stinker]

Let's say Stinker marries Yona. I see Stinker one day and say, "Stinker, have you stopped beating your wife?" Stinker says nothing.

Then the next day I see Yona with a black eye. "Till death do us part, right Yona?" She replies, "Yes, I hope Stinker likes rat poison with his eggs."

All is well in Theologyland.

I was not advocating the ridged doctrine that unless it was only because of adultery (not our questionable word fornication ) that a wife could divorce her husband. In the 21st century we have morally evolved enoughto know that wife beating is a very valid reason for her to divorce her husband.

 

[mercutio1562]

great thread.

 

[one11]

I believe studies have shown most abuse comes from alcoholism (drunkenness) and drugs. So, I'd say if someone has become abusive in their personality because of alcohol and drugs and becomes abusive, a divorce would be permitted.

Two things I'd like to add though: Separation for a time is useful as some people DO get off alcohol and drugs and their personality changes back to within normal limits, meaning one might get angry once in a while, but not abusive.

If either the husband or wife won't get off alcohol or drugs and stays abusive then that person HAS become an unbeliever and the marriage should be dissolved as being around an alcoholic is very dangerous.

Next, fornication has two meanings: Sex outside of marriage, or turning to another god or more or less marrying your soul to that other "god".

Alcohol and drugs can become that god to some people and some people will die alcoholics or drug addicts and there isn't much you can do about a person who puts alcohol and drugs over his or hers own life and the life of their family, the life of others, along with chosing drugs and alcohol over God.

 

[DeaconDean]

• Malachi 2:16 says that God hates divorce. “ For the LORD God of Israel says
  That He hates divorce,
  For it covers one’s garment with violence,”
  Says the LORD of hosts.

And yet, wasn't it God who said:

"And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also." -Jer. 3:8 (KJV)

God divorced Israel here, and also her sister Judah.

God does hate divorce, but yet at one time, God actually divorced Israel.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[TeChNoWC]

Sherman Nobles.

 

[AlAyeti]

Just fishing for folks take on this, but I want you to back your opinion up with God's word.

Please post chapter and verse what you believe is God's view of marriage, divorce, and remarriage. Is divorce always wrong? Is it sometimes permissible? What consitutes a marriage in the first place? Is remarriage ever acceptable.

Remember to use your words to build one another up, and not to tear down. I know this is an important issue with passionate views each way. Please be respectful and courteous with your words.

When Nathan exposed "King" David as a murderer and an adulterer what was the result towards David's sham of a marriage to Bathsheba?

2 samuel 12:

1 The LORD sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, "There were two men in a certain town, one rich and the other poor. 2 The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, 3 but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him.


4 "Now a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him."

5 David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, "As surely as the LORD lives, the man who did this deserves to die! 6 He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity."

7 Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man!

This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul.

8 I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more.

9 Why did you despise the word of the LORD by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own.

You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites.

10 Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.'
11 "This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.' "

13 Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD."

Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin.

You are not going to die.

14 But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the LORD show utter contempt,

the son born to you will die."


15 After Nathan had gone home, the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife had borne to David, and he became ill.

16 David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and went into his house and spent the nights lying on the ground. 17 The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.

18 On the seventh day the child died. David's servants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they thought, "While the child was still living, we spoke to David but he would not listen to us. How can we tell him the child is dead? He may do something desperate."

19 David noticed that his servants were whispering among themselves and he realized the child was dead. "Is the child dead?" he asked.
"Yes," they replied, "he is dead."

20 Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.

21 His servants asked him, "Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!"

22 He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, 'Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.' 23 But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
24 Then David comforted his wife Bathsheba,

and he went to her and lay with her. She gave birth to a son, and they named him Solomon. The LORD loved him;

25 and because the LORD loved him, he sent word through Nathan the prophet to name him Jedidiah.

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Now read Psalm 51 . . .