Baptist Pastor Considering Switch to Methodism

[cesmith78]

I've thought about switching to the UMC from the SBC because of the divorce issue but couldn't get past the infant baptism. It does seem to almost be a running joke that if you are a Baptist minister switching to the UMC its because you've been divorced. Has the OP found that to be the case in Mississippi?

 

[Chickenman1]

Chickenman1, I'm a United Methodist pastor (Elder in full connection) who used to be Baptist clergy. I'd be happy to answer any questions I can about the differences and what that switch is like.

As to our note about baptism, we do as United Methodist believe baptism is a sacrament and a grace filled act of God on the person being baptized. It is more than a dedication or consecration.

Thanks for the help circuitrider!!! Your info will be very helpful. Could you please elaborate on the most difficult things you experienced in the transition from Baptist to Methodist? What was your biggest issue doctrine wise and how did you overcome it? What type of Baptist were you? Why did you change? Have you been happy with the change? If you had it to do over again would you do it? Any info you could pass along would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks and blessings to you.

 

[Chickenman1]

I've thought about switching to the UMC from the SBC because of the divorce issue but couldn't get past the infant baptism. It does seem to almost be a running joke that if you are a Baptist minister switching to the UMC its because you've been divorced. Has the OP found that to be the case in Mississippi?

Yes. I think it is that way everywhere from what I can tell.

 

[circuitrider]

Thanks for the help circuitrider!!! Your info will be very helpful. Could you please elaborate on the most difficult things you experienced in the transition from Baptist to Methodist? What was your biggest issue doctrine wise and how did you overcome it? What type of Baptist were you? Why did you change? Have you been happy with the change? If you had it to do over again would you do it? Any info you could pass along would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks and blessings to you.

I was an American Baptist pastor for 17 years, though I started out in the SBC as a young person.

I made the switch because my theology became more and more Methodist over time. I had attended a Walk to Emmaus retreat and was introduced to John Wesley's concepts of grace. Over about a ten year period of studying and reading Wesley and examining my theology I really felt much more Methodist than Baptist.

Because of my own journey, I didn't have a lot of doctrinal issues to overcome. But understanding baptism and communion as sacraments greatly helps with understanding the value of infant baptism. Baptists tend to think of baptism as an act of the individual in response to their receiving salvation.

For United Methodists, baptism is an act of God and a gift of God's grace, so it doesn't matter if the person being baptized understands baptism or is yet a professing believer as a child or infant to receive it.

Also the Wesleyan understanding of "perfection" takes some thinking about. It has been so misrepresented by non-Methodists that many people completely misunderstand the doctrine. I'm happy to talk more about that with you as well.

Probably the biggest learning curve is polity (church structure) rather than theology. The United Methodist connectional system is very different from Baptist local church autonomy. I like the difference. But it was a lot to grasp at first.

Clergy in the UMC are not free agents. You are under the supervision of your Bishop and your District Superintendent. You are appointed to your ministry by your Bishop. You are not a member of the local church. Clergy are members of the annual conference. Ordained clergy who are "elders" (the title for most persons in pastoral ministry who are ordained) are itinerant and offer themselves "without reserve" to be appointed where they are sent.

I have been very happy with my change to the UMC. I got my first UMC appointment in 2010 where I was an Associate Pastor for just two years and then was given my own congregation. I've served in that church now for five years and am being appointed to another congregation starting this July 1st. The churches I've served in the UMC have been the best churches I've ever served!

Just a couple other things to think about:

1. Don't try to become United Methodist if you disagree with key doctrines of the Church. If you can't whole heartedly support connectional ministry, the sacraments, and a Wesleyan understanding of theology you'll not be happy and the UMC won't be happy with you. (In fact if you can't articulate a Methodist theology after appropriate training and time, you won't be approved by a Board of Ordained Ministry or other body for a transfer or orders.

2. If you aren't willing to be itinerant clergy, don't become a United Methodist. We go where we are sent.

Feel free to ask more questions! Also, I know a number of UMC pastors who have been through a divorce. That alone is not a barrier to ministry in the UMC.

 

[circuitrider]

Yes. I think it is that way everywhere from what I can tell.

People switch for lots of reason. Divorce is certainly among them.

 

[Chickenman1]

I was an American Baptist pastor for 17 years, though I started out in the SBC as a young person.

I made the switch because my theology became more and more Methodist over time. I had attended a Walk to Emmaus retreat and was introduced to John Wesley's concepts of grace. Over about a ten year period of studying and reading Wesley and examining my theology I really felt much more Methodist than Baptist.

Because of my own journey, I didn't have a lot of doctrinal issues to overcome. But understanding baptism and communion as sacraments greatly helps with understanding the value of infant baptism. Baptists tend to think of baptism as an act of the individual in response to their receiving salvation.

For United Methodists, baptism is an act of God and a gift of God's grace, so it doesn't matter if the person being baptized understands baptism or is yet a professing believer as a child or infant to receive it.

Also the Wesleyan understanding of "perfection" takes some thinking about. It has been so misrepresented by non-Methodists that many people completely misunderstand the doctrine. I'm happy to talk more about that with you as well.

Probably the biggest learning curve is polity (church structure) rather than theology. The United Methodist connectional system is very different from Baptist local church autonomy. I like the difference. But it was a lot to grasp at first.

Clergy in the UMC are not free agents. You are under the supervision of your Bishop and your District Superintendent. You are appointed to your ministry by your Bishop. You are not a member of the local church. Clergy are members of the annual conference. Ordained clergy who are "elders" (the title for most persons in pastoral ministry who are ordained) are itinerant and offer themselves "without reserve" to be appointed where they are sent.

I have been very happy with my change to the UMC. I got my first UMC appointment in 2010 where I was an Associate Pastor for just two years and then was given my own congregation. I've served in that church now for five years and am being appointed to another congregation starting this July 1st. The churches I've served in the UMC have been the best churches I've ever served!

Just a couple other things to think about:

1. Don't try to become United Methodist if you disagree with key doctrines of the Church. If you can't whole heartedly support connectional ministry, the sacraments, and a Wesleyan understanding of theology you'll not be happy and the UMC won't be happy with you. (In fact if you can't articulate a Methodist theology after appropriate training and time, you won't be approved by a Board of Ordained Ministry or other body for a transfer or orders.

2. If you aren't willing to be itinerant clergy, don't become a United Methodist. We go where we are sent.

Feel free to ask more questions! Also, I know a number of UMC pastors who have been through a divorce. That alone is not a barrier to ministry in the UMC.

If I desire to become a member of the UMC what do I do?? In the Baptist church those desiring membership go forward at the end of the service. From what I can tell the person desiring to be a member of the Methodist Church just meets with the Pastor to let him know?? I thought about going by and visiting with the Methodist Pastor to get acquainted and let him know of my desires about becoming a local pastor. How would you advise me on that??

 

[Basil the Great]

If I were in your position, Chickenman, I'd be cautious about switching to the Methodist church. That's because the theology is substantially different, even though the people and style are as you said--friendly, not legalistic and all the rest. Are there not other denominations that are more similar to the Baptists that you could look into...and also perhaps put your wife more at ease, too?

It is a matter of opinion I suppose. I would not say that the theology is substantially different between Baptist and Methodist. I was United Methodist for about 30 years and I know quite a bit about the Baptists. Yes, there are differences, but not major differences, in my view anyway.

 

[Albion]

It is a matter of opinion I suppose. I would not say that the theology is substantially different between Baptist and Methodist. I was United Methodist for about 30 years and I know quite a bit about the Baptists. Yes, there are differences, but not major differences, in my view anyway.

Not that I should really be surprised at the replies, but the differences are actually quite significant. "Circuit rider," himself a Methodist pastor, addressed most of the same issues that I had mentioned earlier.

 

[circuitrider]

If I desire to become a member of the UMC what do I do?? In the Baptist church those desiring membership go forward at the end of the service. From what I can tell the person desiring to be a member of the Methodist Church just meets with the Pastor to let him know?? I thought about going by and visiting with the Methodist Pastor to get acquainted and let him know of my desires about becoming a local pastor. How would you advise me on that??

If you are an ordained Baptist minister DON'T go join a local United Methodist Church. Only lay people are members of the local church. So if you join a local church you may well, in the eyes of the Annual Conference, invalidate your previous ordination and become a United Methodist lay person. Doing so can add a lot of time to becoming a UMC pastor.

Your first step would be to find out who the District Superintendent is for the area you live in and make contact with them. Express your interest in UMC ministry and (if you are ordained) transferring your credentials to the UMC.

Each conference has a different method for bringing in non-Methodists into the denomination. But often there is an application process and a committee that will meet with you.

If you are approved for appointment they may actually want you to serve a UMC church for a couple of years to make sure you fit in before you start the process of transferring your ordination.

When I transferred my ordination I served at a church for two years and then received my "provisional" membership. After the third year I received my full membership. This required meeting with and doing work with the Board of Ordained Ministry who over sees the ministry of the pastors in the annual conference.

Also, before becoming a UMC pastor you will have to take three classes. UMC Doctrine, UMC History, and UMC Polity. They will tell you where you can take those classes.

All this is assuming you are a seminary graduate and are already ordained. If you aren't, the requirements will be different.

 

[circuitrider]

It largely depends on which Baptist denomination you are talking about. But Southern Baptists are more different from Methodists than American Baptists. And, the UMC is most definitely not a place for ardent Calvinists. Methodists are very much Wesleyan Arminian in our theology. We don't believe in predestination. We don't believe in "Once Saved Always Saved." We believe in the possibility of apostasy.

 

[circuitrider]

It largely depends on which Baptist denomination you are talking about. But Southern Baptists are more different from Methodists than American Baptists. And, the UMC is most definitely not a place for ardent Calvinists. Methodists are very much Wesleyan Arminian in our theology. We don't believe in predestination. We don't believe in "Once Saved Always Saved." We believe in the possibility of apostasy.

 

[Basil the Great]

It largely depends on which Baptist denomination you are talking about. But Southern Baptists are more different from Methodists than American Baptists. And, the UMC is most definitely not a place for ardent Calvinists. Methodists are very much Wesleyan Arminian in our theology. We don't believe in predestination. We don't believe in "Once Saved Always Saved." We believe in the possibility of apostasy.

Yes, when I talked about Methodists and Baptists being fairly close, I was mostly referring to American Baptists, not Southern Baptists. However, the comparison may not be entirely true. United Methodists in the American South probably tend to be more conservative than their UMC cousins in the American North, East and West Coast. Hence, United Methodists in the South might not be real far removed from Southern Baptists, though still not as close as they would be to American Baptists.

 

[circuitrider]

Yes, when I talked about Methodists and Baptists being fairly close, I was mostly referring to American Baptists, not Southern Baptists. However, the comparison may not be entirely true. United Methodists in the American South probably tend to be more conservative than their UMC cousins in the American North, East and West Coast. Hence, United Methodists in the South might not be real far removed from Southern Baptists, though still not as close as they would be to American Baptists.

There is a lot of truth in that. But I don't know any Methodist pastor of any stripe that is a Calvinist. John Wesley preached ardently against Calvinism and predestination in particular. Arminianism is at the heart of Wesleyan thought. It isn't a liberal/conservative issue.

 

[actionsub]

What would Methodist congregations think if I switched to Methodism and she stayed Baptist? From a Baptist perspective I would see that they might not like that too well.

I have an acquaintance who is a UMC pastor; however, her husband pastors a PCUSA congregation. It seems both the Methodists and the Presbyterians understand that Newtonian laws of physics are a cruel mistress.

I know of another former UMC pastor whose husband didn't go to church at all, so...

 

[JCFantasy23]

What would Methodist congregations think if I switched to Methodism and she stayed Baptist? From a Baptist perspective I would see that they might not like that too well.

I really don't think they'd mind. My former pastors girlfriend would drop by sometimes but did not regularly attend our church and no one blinked an eye at that. Methodists usually aren't judging on denomination differences from my experiences. It probably wouldn't come up.

 

[Chickenman1]

Good News everybody!!! I have been attending a Methodist Church for the last month with my wife and we are adapting slowly. She has been very open minded and willing. I have been learning a lot. The church we have been attending is really high church and I have always been accustomed to low church worship services so that is taking some getting used to. I have been in contact with the district superintendent and will be faxing in my background check release and my letter of Good Standing from my Baptist pastor. The Methodist folks have been very friendly, encouraging and compassionate when they learn of my situation. The DS said not to join the church so I am taking her advice. What will happen next??? When will I start my Course of Study classes???

 

[Chickenman1]

Good News everybody!!! I have been attending a Methodist Church for the last month with my wife and we are adapting slowly. She has been very open minded and willing. I have been learning a lot. The church we have been attending is really high church and I have always been accustomed to low church worship services so that is taking some getting used to. I have been in contact with the district superintendent and will be faxing in my background check release and my letter of Good Standing from my Baptist pastor. The Methodist folks have been very friendly, encouraging and compassionate when they learn of my situation. The DS said not to join the church so I am taking her advice. What will happen next??? When will I start my Course of Study classes???

 

[Chickenman1]

As I start my Methodist journey, if I seek to follow after John Wesley in all I do will everything be good to go or will I encounter difficulties??? Wesleyanism seems to be a little different than modern day United Methodism from what I can tell here on the front end. Am I correct in my assumption???

 

[circuitrider]

As I start my Methodist journey, if I seek to follow after John Wesley in all I do will everything be good to go or will I encounter difficulties??? Wesleyanism seems to be a little different than modern day United Methodism from what I can tell here on the front end. Am I correct in my assumption???

At least in my conference, this would not be considered a problem. Remember, this is an appointment system. Your wife isn't appointed clergy and if she were she'd probably be appointed to a different church. The expectation of the wife being an almost freebee staff member is not nearly a part of United Methodist church culture as the Baptist culture I experienced, though I hear that years ago the expectation was different.

But now with so many women working outside the home, people do not expect to see your wife that much.

 

[Rawtheran]

I was an American Baptist pastor for 17 years, though I started out in the SBC as a young person.

I made the switch because my theology became more and more Methodist over time. I had attended a Walk to Emmaus retreat and was introduced to John Wesley's concepts of grace. Over about a ten year period of studying and reading Wesley and examining my theology I really felt much more Methodist than Baptist.

Because of my own journey, I didn't have a lot of doctrinal issues to overcome. But understanding baptism and communion as sacraments greatly helps with understanding the value of infant baptism. Baptists tend to think of baptism as an act of the individual in response to their receiving salvation.

For United Methodists, baptism is an act of God and a gift of God's grace, so it doesn't matter if the person being baptized understands baptism or is yet a professing believer as a child or infant to receive it.

Also the Wesleyan understanding of "perfection" takes some thinking about. It has been so misrepresented by non-Methodists that many people completely misunderstand the doctrine. I'm happy to talk more about that with you as well.

Probably the biggest learning curve is polity (church structure) rather than theology. The United Methodist connectional system is very different from Baptist local church autonomy. I like the difference. But it was a lot to grasp at first.

Clergy in the UMC are not free agents. You are under the supervision of your Bishop and your District Superintendent. You are appointed to your ministry by your Bishop. You are not a member of the local church. Clergy are members of the annual conference. Ordained clergy who are "elders" (the title for most persons in pastoral ministry who are ordained) are itinerant and offer themselves "without reserve" to be appointed where they are sent.

I have been very happy with my change to the UMC. I got my first UMC appointment in 2010 where I was an Associate Pastor for just two years and then was given my own congregation. I've served in that church now for five years and am being appointed to another congregation starting this July 1st. The churches I've served in the UMC have been the best churches I've ever served!

Just a couple other things to think about:

1. Don't try to become United Methodist if you disagree with key doctrines of the Church. If you can't whole heartedly support connectional ministry, the sacraments, and a Wesleyan understanding of theology you'll not be happy and the UMC won't be happy with you. (In fact if you can't articulate a Methodist theology after appropriate training and time, you won't be approved by a Board of Ordained Ministry or other body for a transfer or orders.

2. If you aren't willing to be itinerant clergy, don't become a United Methodist. We go where we are sent.

Feel free to ask more questions! Also, I know a number of UMC pastors who have been through a divorce. That alone is not a barrier to ministry in the UMC.

While Circuitrider threw in a lot of great material and is definitely way more qualified then I am at answering this question since I am only just beginning the Candidacy process in the West Ohio Conference as an undergrad student I did want to shed some light on UMC Itineracy and how it works. Every few years Local Pastors, Elders, and Deacons(They are non itinerant but they still have to fill out the forms anyway oh and in the UMC Deacons are Ordained Clergy unlike in the Baptist Church) have to fill our Pastor profile based on their interests, talents, Ministry Passions, and preference of service as well as an interview with the DS on Ministry goals and objectives. Based upon that info the Cabinet then meets together and find an appointment for you based on The Holy Spirit's leading, statistics gathered from profile/interviews, and of course open churches. Know something I also wanted to mention is that in the UMC the Cabinet does not just say hey you! Your gong here whether you like it or not, there is a whole process of Consultancy between the Pastor/Family, Churches involved in the move, and the Cabinet. In fact once you are appointed and have finished Ordination, for the most part you will stay at the current church you are serving for a good number of years unless you or the church request a move or the Cabinet asks you to move because there is a desperate church that needs your "particular set of skills." One of my professors in College who is a UMC Pastor once told me how he managed to serve one church for 15 years and was only moved once in a span of less than five years because he and the church did not get along in terms of ministry. There are also some instances where some Pastors have to become limited in their Itineracy or confined to a geographical area due to issues like taking care of sick family members or a spouses career making a move really difficult but the downside of this is that you may have to accept an appointment that is less than full time which would result in a significant pay cut. Also as an Elder you can also say no to an appointment proposal by the cabinet if you don't feel God calling you to the church that they want to move you to but that might cause some backlash on their end. Anyway I know that this is a lot to take in but I just wanted to let you know that Itineracy is not this evil placement system that other denominations make it out to be and Itineracy can provide many great ministry opportunities for you to pursuit based on your interests/gifts that God has given you.