Baptist and the whole "end times" issue

[Marissa]

I'm a traditional pentecostal who has recently started attending a (Non-charismatic) baptist church. For the most part our beliefs seem to be similiar, with the preaching so far completely in line with the bible, unfortunately a rare event these days.

From what I can tell the biggest problem they have with pentecostalism is the word of faith movement, benny hinn, etc. which I consider to be as nonchristian as islam (I have a nagging feeling that I'm not allowed to say that here), and the timing of the baptism of the holy spirit for which I do hold to the traditional pentecostal view.

One thing that I haven't heard specifically mentioned and which I consider incredibly important is the churchs belief on the "end times". I'm one of those "the end is near" kinds. The rapture, the tribulation and Lords second coming are close. They will occur as depicted in the bible (Revelations and others). The "church" will enter a time of apostacy, as though in the times of Noah (I'm so tempted to mention Rev 18, but I'm positive I'm not allowed to say that), people will become even greater lovers of self etc. etc.

I believe that if one doesn't achknowledge what is happening in the world then there will come a time when they will simply want their ears tickled. I don't want to be in a church getting it's ears tickled. Given that I really want to know what baptists think for the most part. I haven't had an opening at church (I've only been there for a few weeks) and it's not really a topic of conversation I will pull out of the blue. Especially given some of their reactions when I've mentioned I'm actually a pentecostal, if disillusioned with many of the now non-pentecostal denominations.

Edit: For clarifications sake I'm not looking for a debate. I just want to know what y'all think. Not so tough a question really.

 

[Dmckay]

I'm a traditional pentecostal who has recently started attending a (Non-charismatic) baptist church. For the most part our beliefs seem to be similiar, with the preaching so far completely in line with the bible, unfortunately a rare event these days.

From what I can tell the biggest problem they have with pentecostalism is the word of faith movement, benny hinn, etc. which I consider to be as nonchristian as islam (I have a nagging feeling that I'm not allowed to say that here), and the timing of the baptism of the holy spirit for which I do hold to the traditional pentecostal view.

One thing that I haven't heard specifically mentioned and which I consider incredibly important is the churchs belief on the "end times". I'm one of those "the end is near" kinds. The rapture, the tribulation and Lords second coming are close. They will occur as depicted in the bible (Revelations and others). The "church" will enter a time of apostacy, as though in the times of Noah (I'm so tempted to mention Rev 18, but I'm positive I'm not allowed to say that), people will become even greater lovers of self etc. etc.

I believe that if one doesn't achknowledge what is happening in the world then there will come a time when they will simply want their ears tickled. I don't want to be in a church getting it's ears tickled. Given that I really want to know what baptists think for the most part. I haven't had an opening at church (I've only been there for a few weeks) and it's not really a topic of conversation I will pull out of the blue. Especially given some of their reactions when I've mentioned I'm actually a pentecostal, if disillusioned with many of the now non-pentecostal denominations.

Edit: For clarifications sake I'm not looking for a debate. I just want to know what y'all think. Not so tough a question really.

When it comes to eschatology (End Times) there is a pretty wide divergence among Baptists, divided along the lines of how liberal or conservative they are over Scripture; what type of Baptist church they are, or in some cases depending on where the Pastor went to school.

The best way for you to find out is to inquire of the Pastor of the church you have been visiting. They should have a written doctrinal statement available for any newcomers to read. If they don't have a printed statement the Pastor should be happy to discuss their teaching with you.

 

[Marissa]

A variety of beliefs. That sounds like something I can deal with. Thanks for the answer.

You're completely right that talking to the pastor is the best option, but isn't so easy. He's on long service leave 'til the start of June. Otherwise I would have happily bought it up out of nowhere with him. I just feel a bit uncomfortable doing it with the general congregation. I'd certainly considered it a bit odd if someone walked in and started questioning my beliefs.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

One thing that I haven't heard specifically mentioned and which I consider incredibly important is the churchs belief on the "end times". I'm one of those "the end is near" kinds. The rapture, the tribulation and Lords second coming are close. They will occur as depicted in the bible (Revelations and others). The "church" will enter a time of apostacy, as though in the times of Noah (I'm so tempted to mention Rev 18, but I'm positive I'm not allowed to say that), people will become even greater lovers of self etc. etc.

I believe that if one doesn't achknowledge what is happening in the world then there will come a time when they will simply want their ears tickled. I don't want to be in a church getting it's ears tickled. Given that I really want to know what baptists think for the most part. I haven't had an opening at church (I've only been there for a few weeks) and it's not really a topic of conversation I will pull out of the blue. Especially given some of their reactions when I've mentioned I'm actually a pentecostal, if disillusioned with many of the now non-pentecostal denominations.

Yes the bible has verses on these two subjects

2 timothy 3:1-8 this is not the world thou this is in the church

alot of people see this in the world ..and depending on what church you go to you may or may not see this in the church.....Church as a group is suppose to judge among themselves and kick this person out till the have repented

2 tim 4:2-4 is the tickling of ears verse

pray that your your able

to forget those things which are behind, and reach forth unto those things which are before you... phillippians 3:13

since are Father has better things planned for US...


as for the end times we are told to look forward to the rapture to help us live the christian life so we do not lose hope and to keep thing of this earth in perspective...that its such a short time I will be with the Lord glorified ...Forever!

 

[Willo]

I have heard that the main view point of Baptists in Australia is Pre mil.

Although I have met a few amil baptists

 

[abbygirlforever]

I'm assuming you're talking about the Baptist Church in Australia. I don't know how simliar it is to the American versions, but I'll act as if they are for now.

In Baptist church I attended growing up I'm pretty sure that the topic never came up in a sermon or a Bible study. Same thing with the one I'm attending now (though I've only been attending for a month). All the Baptist churches I've ever been to tend to focus less on the things to come and more on living a holy life and avoiding sin.

To be honest, I've always had a bit of a problem with the Baptist church based on the church I attended as a child. It wasn't a very friendly place; I think the pastor was too busy being holier-than-thou to actually join the people he was preaching to. However, the Baptist church I attend now is much nicer, so I guess it's not fair to judge all Baptists by that one church.

I don't know if my church even has a stance on the end-times debate.

 

[Willo]

Thats what I love about the baptist churches, their stance on Holiness, and avoiding sin. End times is a side issue, like its going to happen no matter what theology we have.

Jesus is coming back, now are you ready? That is the view point we should have.

 

[Dmckay]

A variety of beliefs. That sounds like something I can deal with. Thanks for the answer.

You're completely right that talking to the pastor is the best option, but isn't so easy. He's on long service leave 'til the start of June. Otherwise I would have happily bought it up out of nowhere with him. I just feel a bit uncomfortable doing it with the general congregation. I'd certainly considered it a bit odd if someone walked in and started questioning my beliefs.

I don't think that anyone would take offense at you doing this. Most churches that I have been affiliated with are happy to clarify things for visitors or people contemplating membership. It is always better to make sure that everyone is on the same page, than to have things stirred up over a misunderstanding later on that could have better been handled by being open.

 

[Dmckay]

I have heard that the main view point of Baptists in Australia is Pre mil.

Although I have met a few amil baptists

You are quite right, the majority of Baptist Churches are premillennial and Pretribulational as to the rapture. I know of very few that are post or mid tribulational, and none that are amillennial. There may be a few hiding out there, somewhere. But most Baptist Churches place a great deal of emphasis upon the truth of Scripture and G-d being true to His promises. Because of this the Pretrib and premill positions are pretty much universal in Baptist circles. It is usually on the timing and details of some of the Future Things events that you find differences of opinions.

This is also true when it comes to the question of the Charismata (Spiritual gifts) in Baptist Churches. There are some Baptist Churches that don't mention spiritual gifts mainly hoping to avoid controversy. There are other Baptist churches that have programs to help believers to discover and use their spiritual gifts within the body of Christ as Scripture teaches. Usually, in my experience, it is only when one begins speaking about the validity of the "Sign" gifts, prophecy, tongues, word of knowledge and miracles that things begin to get dicey.

In any case, if the Pastor isn't available, any deacon or elder should be more than happy to talk to you about this. It's one of the reasons that they are around.

 

[daveleau]

My pastor is pretty conservative eschatologically. He does not preach on it, not because of its irrelevance, but because it takes SO LONG to treat it as it should be treated. He did a 7 week series on the book of Revelations, which was shortened from the desired 12 week series.

I agree that Baptist churches have great problems with the Name-It-Claim-It crowds and the Send-Me-Your-Money crowds. I think Hinn is both, if my memory serves me correctly. Their teachings seem to only incorporate verses that support their ideas, rather than getting a whole look at Scripture which paints a different picture.

 

[Dmckay]

My pastor is pretty conservative eschatologically. He does not preach on it, not because of its irrelevance, but because it takes SO LONG to treat it as it should be treated. He did a 7 week series on the book of Revelations, which was shortened from the desired 12 week series.

I agree that Baptist churches have great problems with the Name-It-Claim-It crowds and the Send-Me-Your-Money crowds. I think Hinn is both, if my memory serves me correctly. Their teachings seem to only incorporate verses that support their ideas, rather than getting a whole look at Scripture which paints a different picture.

I'm impressed, it took me 7 weeks to preach on the letters to the 7 Churches and I felt like I really rushed thing too much.