Baptism

[MamaZ]

but this is not about Paul, but about baptism

Yup and since Paul was not sent to baptize how could one be saved by the Gospel He preached?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Paul was not sent to baptize.. He was sent to the gentiles to preach the Gospel.

That is because the Judeans rejected him as he was also preaching to them, just as they rejected the teachings of the Lord Jesus.

1 Thess 2:16 Forbidding to us the Nations to speak that they may be being saved into the to fill-up of them the sins always outstrips them yet upon them the wrath into a finish/teloV <5056>.

John 7:1 And was walking, the Jesus, after these in the Galilee, for not He willed in the Judea to be walking, that the Judeans sought Him to kill.

 

[MamaZ]

Let me first ask you this; do you think Peter, who's word's were inspired by the Holy Ghost, was contradicting himself? That he taught something contradictory in Acts 3:19 from what he taught in Acts 2:38?

How could He contradict when baptism wasn't even spoken of in the verses I gave you.

 

[Thekla]

Yup and since Paul was not sent to baptize how could one be saved by the Gospel He preached?

how do we know that a. Paul did not baptize and b. those he taught were never baptized ?

 

[MamaZ]

how do we know that a. Paul did not baptize and b. those he taught were never baptized ?

Well A would be probably because Paul Said I was not sent to baptize. Not to say that he never did baptize but that was not why He was sent. And if the Gospel being preached saved men then I would guess that Baptsim came after salvaton therefore making it quite clear that it is not the baptism that saves but believing of the Gospel..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yup and since Paul was not sent to baptize how could one be saved by the Gospel He preached?

Well ya might say that Water quenches Fire.

Luke 12:49 Fire I came to be casting on the land and what I am willing already it was kindled? 50 A baptism yet I am having to be baptised, and how I am being pressed/sunecomai <4912> (5743), until which any it should be being finished!

Luke 19:43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be according-casting up a siege-work to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing/sunexousin <4912> (5692) thee every which place. [Revelation 20:9]

Reve 20:9 And they ascended on the breadth of the land and they surround the camp of the saints and the city, the beloved and descended/down-cast fire out of the heaven from the GOD and devoured them [Luke 19:43]

 

[Thekla]

well, I will remain a "baptism proponent" based on:

*Christ's command (which, as with His commands is both shown and stated)
*the Tradition as a practice witnessing the Dogma given by Christ
*the observed value of baptism (for example, in conversation with my parents -my dad is a minister from the Evangelical Reformed confession - both remark of the clear 'change' in people immediately following baptism, including infants, and my observation of the same)

 

[MamaZ]

I have nothing against baptism. In fact I agree that Christians should be water baptized.. But this is not what saves the soul.. Only Christ can do that..

 

[Melethiel]

I have nothing against baptism. In fact I agree that Christians should be water baptized.. But this is not what saves the soul.. Only Christ can do that..

and Baptism is a means Christ uses to do that.
We believe Christ saves.
Baptism is a "tool."

 

[MamaZ]

and Baptism is a means Christ uses to do that.
We believe Christ saves.
Baptism is a "tool."

Baptism is not a tool but an act. For we are saved by Grace through faith and not of works..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have nothing against baptism. In fact I agree that Christians should be water baptized.. But this is not what saves the soul.. Only Christ can do that..

Hi. Do ya think this guy was water baptized?

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said: "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus!, that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water, and should be cooling down the tongue of me,--that I am being pained in the flame, this."

 

[MamaZ]

He could have been if He was Jewish.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

He could have been if He was Jewish.

That is what the Laver of Water in the court was for outside the Sanctuary used by the OC Priesthood, correct?

Matthew 26:3 Then were gathered together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, to the Court of the chief priest who was called Caiaphas

Reve 11:2 and the Court, the-one with-out of-the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out out-side and not her you should be measuring, that she was given to the nations.

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

 

[Melethiel]

Baptism is not a tool but an act. For we are saved by Grace through faith and not of works..

Here is the heart of our disagreement. We do not believe baptism is a work (something we do), but a tool God uses to regenerate us. It is fundamentally tied to grace.

 

[anisavta]

Good Grief.

And you wonder why the Jewish community rolls their eyes and shakes their head at Christianity.
I just couldn't read every post here but I did go through many and to see how much discord there is here over baptism...
And then to add the root of immersion to the mix - mikvah and I see how many have no idea of the basic roots of Messiah.
Way back in the first posts a question of mikvah came up as to the origins of baptism and the question was either ignored altogether so more disagreements of Christian baptism could insue or no one wanted to know what it is or the few and I mean few actually wanted to know the connection.
So my conclusion is not many either know about the roots of their faith or don't care about it.
Let the flaming begin!

 

[Melethiel]

Or we know it, but also know that doesn't mean we all have to play at being Jewish now, as the Jewish traditions have been transformed into the Christian traditions. Especially for those who follow Eastern rites, but the Western rites as well, all have their roots in Judaism.

 

[MamaZ]

Here is the heart of our disagreement. We do not believe baptism is a work (something we do), but a tool God uses to regenerate us. It is fundamentally tied to grace.

Well if baptism isn't an act then how can one be baptized?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined

Good Grief.

And you wonder why the Jewish community rolls their eyes and shakes their head at Christianity.
I just couldn't read every post here but I did go through many and to see how much discord there is here over baptism...
And then to add the root of immersion to the mix - mikvah and I see how many have no idea of the basic roots of Messiah.

Can we help it if the Jews do not read the NC of the Bible.

Btw, are you an Orthodox Jew or MJ? Just curioius. Peace.

2 Corin 3:14 But was hardened the minds of them. For until the today day, the same covering/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered, that In Christ it is being-taken-away.

Hebrew 8:10 That this the Covenant which I shall be Covenanting/diaqhsomai <1303> (5695) to the House of
Israel after the days, those, is saying Lord. Giving laws of Me into the minds of them and upon hearts of them I shall be engraving them. And I shall be to them into a God and they shall be to Me into a People. [Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrew 10:16]

 

[Melethiel]

Well if baptism isn't an act then how can one be baptized?

You're changing words now. It is an act - of God. (Nobody baptizes themselves - it's passive.) Tell me, you probably at one point made a prayer to Christ to be saved. Is this prayer an act? Is it a work? Did you do something to save yourself? (Remember, salvation isn't by works...)

 

[MamaZ]

You're changing words now. It is an act - of God. (Nobody baptizes themselves - it's passive.) Tell me, you probably at one point made a prayer to Christ to be saved. Is this prayer an act? Is it a work? Did you do something to save yourself? (Remember, salvation isn't by works...)

Baptism is and act.. For it is a verb and not a noun.. How can a prayer save me? Jesus said all who hear and believe.. Now can I believe without first as Peter having the Father reveal to me what was being preached? No,So when God revealed this to me and I agreed with Him then It was Christ who saved me..