Baptism

[christianmomof3]

the more I find out about what baptism is SUPPOSED to be rather than the way it is currently practiced, the more I think it MIGHT be earth moving

Baptism really is a fantastic wonderful experience. However, if you go into it looking for some wonderful emotional experience, you may not get the emotions you are seeking. As someone else said - it is God that is truth, not our emotions. I know someone who when he was baptised was looking for a deep emotional experience and he still felt the same afterwards and was dissappointed. But he still had faith and went on in the Lord. About a year later he realized he had been seeking an emotional experience as proof of God and that is why he did not get that because the Lord wanted him to believe regardless. He is still a strong believer in Christ.

I on the other hand, had no idea really, what baptism was about or supposed to do and had no expectations about it at all and it was the most life changing experience of my life. I felt totally fantastic and did not know why. I have seen that mirrored in others who really did not know or expect to have any "emotional" change or anything when they were baptised. One teenage girl kept telling me that she loved everyone and it was the best day of her entire life. I have seen the look of joy on other people's faces when they have been baptised that is the same joy that I felt. It is the joy from the Lord and is given to us as a gift from Him.

Baptism is a very powerful thing. It is a statement before God and the angels and principalities and Satan as well as before the human witnesses of it. I have heard that regeneration puts Christ into us and Baptism puts us into Christ.

Several years ago, there are some young me who were in college who met with my church who were raised Hindu. Their family is a priestly hindu family. The older brother was supposed to follow his father and be a priest. When they began meeting with our church they told their parents and their father said it was ok for them to meet with us but that they were not to "get into our water" or be baptised. The father did not care if they met with us, but he did not want them to be baptised because even the Hindus recognize the power and importance of baptism. By that time the younger brother had already been baptised. I am not sure if the older one ever was baptised or not but I think he was.

I do think, that the experience of Baptism and making the decision to be baptised is important. I don't think it is necessary to baptise a baby because I don't think the baby can repent, believe, or make a choice or decision to follow the Lord. Parents can and should pray for our children and dedictate them to the Lord, but we cannot force them to be regenerated by baptising them as infants. There are many people who were baptised as infants who do not follow the Lord.

Jewish parents circumcise their sons as an act of obedience. The circumcision does not make their sons Jews though. Their sons were Jewish from the moment of conception because their parents (or at least their mothers) are Jewish. And Jewish girls are not circumcised - only boys - so the comparrison to baptism trying to show that babies should be baptised would then mean that only baby boys should be baptised and not girls since girls are not circumcised. So, the comparrison does not really work.

 

[Meshavrischika]

But understanding where it comes from is important, at least to me. Observing it as an "obligation" (which is what I was always taught) diminishes from its meaning IMO. When at it as moving to a higher plane of holiness it becomes something more than a stupid man made ritual.

 

[christianmomof3]

But understanding where it comes from is important, at least to me. Observing it as an "obligation" (which is what I was always taught) diminishes from its meaning IMO. When at it as moving to a higher plane of holiness it becomes something more than a stupid man made ritual.

I am sorry that you were taught that baptism is simply an obligation.
It is so much more than that!
I am not sure what a "higher plane of holieness" would mean exactly - is it kind of like from a propeller plane to a jet plane - ok - sorry - but really not quite sure what "planes" of holiness would be.
However, when we chose to be baptised we are chosing to make a declaration before God, men, Satan and the angels, that we are chosing God and giving ourselves to Him. It is stepping out of the world and stepping into Christ. It is a joyful occasion and is the most important and wonderful day of our life! Kind of like a wedding. Getting married should not be an obligation, but a wonderful occasion. Being baptised is just as wonderful and joyful.

 

[Meshavrischika]

I can never tell plane/plain apart when not talking about fields or airplanes.

 

[Meshavrischika]

However, when we chose to be baptised we are chosing to make a declaration before God, men, Satan and the angels, that we are chosing God and giving ourselves to Him. It is stepping out of the world and stepping into Christ. It is a joyful occasion and is the most important and wonderful day of our life! Kind of like a wedding. Getting married should not be an obligation, but a wonderful occasion. Being baptised is just as wonderful and joyful.

I didn't marry this way either...

The problem is you can make this declaration without water.

 

[kpetty16]

I agree with everything but the last part. I don't believe it is essential to salvation and I don't know of any scripture that claims it to be so.

If this is the case, then one has to ask about deathbed conversions. Lying on the highway with a preacher sharing the gospel with you moments before you die. There is no time for baptism. Are they not saved?

Kim

To those who have been taught the gospel and believe, Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16.


Baptizo means to submerge, to dip, immerse. Acts 8:38.


One is baptized into Christ's death and raised to walk in newness of life, Rom 6.



Absolutely, it's for the remission of sins and no one will be saved in their sins and water baptism is the only place where sins can be remitted.

 

[jmacvols]

If the command to "be baptized" is mandatory, why did Paul not include it here? He did not say, "Believe and be baptized," he just said, "Believe."

The text records that indeed they *were* baptized -- which only highlights the fact that Paul did not include that in his answer when asked what they "must" do.

Paul did not say to "believe only". After Paul told the jailer the word of the Lord in v32, the jailer was repentant then baptized. The participle phrase "having believed" in verse 34 sums up everything the jailer had just done which includes his repentance and being baptized...the jailer did not 'believe only'. "Believe" is sometimes used in the bible as a synecdoche which means that believe ( a part) stands for the whole process as can be seen in Acts 2:41,44. Verse 41 shows that the ones that gladly accepted Peter's words were baptized, obviously those that rejected his words rejected being baptized. Yet in v44 it says "all that believed were together". Who were the ones that "believed" in v44, the ones that accepted Peter's words and were baptized or those that rejected his word and rejected being baptized? Obviously the ones that "believed" were the ones baptized, so here we have "believed" including being baptized.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Paul did not say believe AND... which is more important than not saying "believe only". If you ask me how to get to Amarillo and I say, get on 207.... and don't tell you anything else, you're NOT getting to Amarillo. It's silly to assume that he meant more than what he said because that would not be adequate and Paul is anything but lacking in thorough descriptions.

 

[christianmomof3]

The problem is you can make this declaration without water.

Baptism means passing through and emerging from the water. It shows the washing away of our sins. Paul was baptised by Annanias in water who then said to him:
"Rise up and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on His name" (Acts 22:16)

 

[Meshavrischika]

but it is NOT the washing away of sin. it's symbolic, not the thing that does it.

 

[jmacvols]

I agree with everything but the last part. I don't believe it is essential to salvation and I don't know of any scripture that claims it to be so.

If this is the case, then one has to ask about deathbed conversions. Lying on the highway with a preacher sharing the gospel with you moments before you die. There is no time for baptism. Are they not saved?

Kim

I cannot find where the bible teaches deathbeds conversions. Yet the bible says today if ye will hear his voice and harden not your hearts, Heb 3:15, for we have no guarantee of tomorrow, James 4:14. Those that wait for tomorrow to gain salvation, tomorrow may never come and they have no one to blame but themselves.

What about one lying on the highway unconscious not able to acknowledge anything the preacher is saying and dies not ever having gained consciousness and never having believed. There was no time for belief, is he saved anyway?
We can think up all kinds of scenarios, but none of them can change what God has already said.

 

[Meshavrischika]

or how man has already interpreted what God said - lol

 

[MamaZ]

I cannot find where the bible teaches deathbeds conversions. Yet the bible says today if ye will hear his voice and harden not your hearts, Heb 3:15, for we have no guarantee of tomorrow, James 4:14. Those that wait for tomorrow to gain salvation, tomorrow may never come and they have no one to blame but themselves.

What about one lying on the highway unconscious not able to acknowledge anything the preacher is saying and dies not ever having gained consciousness and never having believed. There was no time for belief, is he saved anyway?
We can think up all kinds of scenarios, but none of them can change what God has already said.

You have not read about the thief on the cross? He had no time for baptism.. Was he not saved? Baptism will not save a single soul if you are expecting the water baptism to save you.

 

[jmacvols]

Paul did not say believe AND... which is more important than not saying "believe only". If you ask me how to get to Amarillo and I say, get on 207.... and don't tell you anything else, you're NOT getting to Amarillo. It's silly to assume that he meant more than what he said because that would not be adequate and Paul is anything but lacking in thorough descriptions.

At the time Paul told the jailer to believe, Paul had not yet told the jailer whom or what to believe. It's not till the next verse that Paul tells the jailer the "word of the Lord", so here Paul tells the jailer whom and what to believe and ote after telling him the word of the Lord the jailer was baptized. The context plainly shows the jailer did not "believe only" for belief only cannot save, only baptism is what remits sins.

The jailer was told the word of the Lord >>>>>>>>>>>>jailer baptized
Phillip preached "Jesus" to the eunuch>>>>>>>>>>>>>>eunuch baptized Acts 8:35
preach the gospel to every creature, the result>>>>>>>he that believeth and is baptized

From the above we can easily see that preaching "the word of the Lord", preaching "Jesus", and preaching "the gospel" includes preaching baptism.

See how these verses harmonize:
1Pet 3:21----baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
Eph 2:8------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saved

Since there is but one way to be saved, no alternatives, then the faith of the Ephesians MUST have included baptism, hence a belief that saves MUST include baptism.

 

[Meshavrischika]

baptism is a CHOICE
just as mikvah was a choice
it was a symbol and never really purified anyone
it made them FEEL purified because they DID SOMETHING

 

[jmacvols]

You have not read about the thief on the cross? He had no time for baptism.. Was he not saved? Baptism will not save a single soul if you are expecting the water baptism to save you.

At least two problems with the "thief" argument:

1) You say "he had no time for baptism". There is no evidence that says the thief had never been baptized before. The thief could have been one of those baptized from Mark 1:5 and then later fell into a life of crime.

2) the thief lived under the OT law and is not an example of NT salvation.

 

[MamaZ]

At least two problems with the "thief" argument:

1) You say "he had no time for baptism". There is no evidence that says the thief had never been baptized before. The thief could have been one of those baptized from Mark 1:5 and then later fell into a life of crime.

2) the thief lived under the OT law and is not an example of NT salvation.

Sure.. He was saved by Christ.. Not water baptism.. Water baptism will not save you.. Salvation comes in Christ alone..

 

[Meshavrischika]

At least two problems with the "thief" argument:

1) You say "he had no time for baptism". There is no evidence that says the thief had never been baptized before. The thief could have been one of those baptized from Mark 1:5 and then later fell into a life of crime.

2) the thief lived under the OT law and is not an example of NT salvation.

he could have been one of the Aliens in the new Indiana Jones movie too and there's nothing in the bible to refute that either.

 

[jmacvols]

baptism is a CHOICE
just as mikvah was a choice
it was a symbol and never really purified anyone
it made them FEEL purified because they DID SOMETHING

Those OT rites have nothing to do with NT water baptism. NT water baptism is for the remission of sins. Under the OT law they could not have their sins remitted completely, Hebrews chapter 9 and 10, particularly Heb 10:1-4. If those OT rites could cleanse away sin then there would have been no need for them to cease and no need for Christ to make Himself a sacrifice for sins.

 

[jmacvols]

Sure.. He was saved by Christ.. Not water baptism.. Water baptism will not save you.. Salvation comes in Christ alone..

Again, the thief is NOT an example of NT salvation, so we cannot look to him to find out how to be saved. On top of this, from Mark 2:10 while Christ was on earth He had the power to forgive sins of those whom He tho't was deserving. BUt now Christ is no longer on earth, so His word, the bible, is His authority on earth now and for one to be saved His word says to believe, repent, confess and be baptized.