Baptism

[MamaZ]

Then it's not given by God's grace alone, but is contingent on us believing. Normally for adults to come to Christ, belief would naturally come first, so we read about that situation in scripture, but that's not to say it cannot come to infants also--that conclusion is based on false assumptions.

Basil

Yup for adults we have to believe in order to be saved. Children are set apart as described above. This is why Babies have no need to be baptized.

 

[MamaZ]

I have 5 Children. Not little ones though. My youngest is 15.

 

[Thekla]

yeah, my toddler dwells on salvation alot....??? do you have small children?

I do. Our son was baptised at four months of age. Soon after, (he was five or six months) we were talking about Christ. He pointed to an icon of Christ, then he drew his outstretched hand into a "hold" position, and drew it to his chest, and placed it where his heart was. As he did this, he turned to me and, smiling, said "Jesus".

 

[Melethiel]

I have many younger siblings...they are just as much sinners as any of us, and just as much in need of God's grace. Christ said to bring the children to him, and not hold them back...who are we to deny God's grace to infants?

The main issue here is whether we believe Scripture that Baptism is for the remission of sins, or whether we make it into just another work that WE do to be saved (as the Zwinglians do), instead of trusting in God's grace.

 

[Meshavrischika]

I do. Our son was baptised at four months of age. Soon after, (he was five or six months) we were talking about Christ. He pointed to an icon of Christ, then he drew his outstretched hand into a "hold" position, and drew it to his chest, and placed it where his heart was. As he did this, he turned to me and, smiling, said "Jesus".

my daughter does this with her creche figures. that's what toddlers do.

 

[katherine2001]

I do. Our son was baptised at four months of age. Soon after, (he was five or six months) we were talking about Christ. He pointed to an icon of Christ, then he drew his outstretched hand into a "hold" position, and drew it to his chest, and placed it where his heart was. As he did this, he turned to me and, smiling, said "Jesus".

The child also receives the Eucharist from the time he/she is baptized. Before they can chew, they just receive the Blood. After they have teeth and can chew, they receive both the Body and the Blood. Babies were part of the Old Testament Covenant, why would God all of a sudden not make babies and children part of the New Covenant?

 

[Meshavrischika]

no one said they weren't under the old covenant, just not requried to keep law/mitzvot because they were incapable. if they died, no one thought they went to hell or wherever.

 

[Thekla]

my daughter does this with her creche figures. that's what toddlers do.

the faith of children can be so strong.
I agree with Christ, it is a blessing to have the faith of a child.

Our son knew then and knows now that Christ is to reside in our hearts.

It is my responsibility as a Christian parent to recognize my child's faith, and to help him to keep it through the distractions and struggles as he grows.

 

[Meshavrischika]

christ found children a blessing period. we are even to be like them in their innocence. (this doesn't sound like him proclaiming to accept Him or die)

 

[Thekla]

The child also receives the Eucharist from the time he/she is baptized. Before they can chew, they just receive the Blood. After they have teeth and can chew, they receive both the Body and the Blood. Babies were part of the Old Testament Covenant, why would God all of a sudden not make babies and children part of the New Covenant?

and this is a great blessing, too

 

[MamaZ]

If you don't believe in Jesus then how can one have eternal life?

 

[Meshavrischika]

If you can't believe in Jesus (are mentally incapable) how can you be DENIED eternal life?

 

[MamaZ]

If you can't believe in Jesus (are mentally incapable) how can you be DENIED eternal life?

I never said that this was the case lol.. I am talking about adults confessing Christ. Gods grace is sufficient for them. But for Adults that have capability you need to believe then be baptized.. So therefore grace comes through Christ Jesus and not through baptism..

 

[MamaZ]

So whether a baby is batized or not Gods grace is suffecient for them.

 

[Meshavrischika]

not all adults. there's a vast array of people who cannot and will never be able to do anything of the sort, but then,I believe they live in more perfection than we do because they cannot condemn, cannot judge others or themselves, etc.

I agree on the baptism thing btw.

 

[MamaZ]

The mentally challenged are also Covered by the Grace of God. All though My niece has confessed Jesus and will preach Jesus much.. She is both mentally and physically challenged.. She loves Jesus.

 

[vanshan]

While the Bible does say that families were baptised, it does not mention ages so while there may have been babies involved, there is just as much of a chance that there may not have been. There is no mention ever of a baby being baptised. All of the examples in the Bible are of people who repent, confess that Jesus is Lord, and are baptised by being immersed in water.

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." Acts 2:38-39

Whole families were baptized, including children. Do you think some were baptized and other children in the same family were denied it because they were too young? That's an assumption, which doesn't stand up to further investigation. The Bible states that baptism is for the children too, with no age requirement specified, but if you need further proof, look no further than the witness of the early Christians who were the disciples of the apostles themselves. They all bear witness that baptism is the beginning of man's salvation as the scriptures teach, and that it's available to all men, women, and children.

I don't think any of us intellectually fully understand anything about God and that is not a requirement for salvation - if it was, we would all be doomed.
I don't think that God abandons our children to Satan if we don't dip them in water and say we are baptising them. The Bible tells us that our children are sanctified by having believing parents.

I think this is the root of the problem. We have lost the correct undertanding of baptism. The purpose and value of repentance and baptism is to invite the presence of the Holy Spirit into one's heart, mind, and body. By a miracle of the Holy Spirit the waters are sanctified and made a way God chooses to work to cleanse us of sin and bring us into His flock. Who can deny this gift to children as well? They may later act in free will to depart from this grace, but this give them a good beginning.

Basil

 

[Meshavrischika]

The mentally challenged are also Covered by the Grace of God. All though My niece has confessed Jesus and will preach Jesus much.. She is both mentally and physically challenged.. She loves Jesus.

your niece can at least walk and talk

 

[Meshavrischika]

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." Acts 2:38-39

Whole families were baptized, including children. Do you think some were baptized and other children in the same family were denied it because they were too young? That's an assumption, which doesn't stand up to further investigation. The Bible states that baptism is for the children too, with no age requirement specified, but if you need further proof, look no further than the witness of the early Christians who were the disciples of the apostles themselves. They all bear witness that baptism is the beginning of man's salvation as the scriptures teach, and that it's available to all men, women, and children.




I think this is the root of the problem. We have lost the correct undertanding of baptism. The purpose and value of repentance and baptism is to invite the presence of the Holy Spirit into one's heart, mind, and body. By a miracle of the Holy Spirit the waters are sanctified and made a way God chooses to work to cleanse us of sin and bring us into His flock. Who can deny this gift to children as well? They may later act in free will to depart from this grace, but this give them a good beginning.

Basil

I really disagree that this is the correct understanding at all.

 

[Melethiel]

I never said that this was the case lol.. I am talking about adults confessing Christ. Gods grace is sufficient for them. But for Adults that have capability you need to believe then be baptized.. So therefore grace comes through Christ Jesus and not through baptism..

False dichotomy...God gives his grace through Baptism. I disagree with any position which attempts to turn a gift of God into yet another thing that WE have to do.