Baptism

[daverain]

My two cents:
--------------

Believe upon Christ (and His sacrifice)...

and you -ARE- 'baptised into Jesus '.

Peace in Christ.

 

[Dispy]

My two cents:
--------------

Believe upon Christ (and His sacrifice)...

and you -ARE- 'baptised into Jesus '.

Peace in Christ.

AMEN - dry-cleaned.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[gtsecc]

What do you make of writings by apostles with instructions on how to do water Baptism, such as the Didache?

 

[Dispy]

What do you make of writings by apostles with instructions on how to do water Baptism, such as the Didache?

What instructions and by whom are you referring to.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[gtsecc]

What instructions and by whom are you referring to.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Well, the Bible contains certain writings, BUT not all writings that are know to be true. The Didache WAS considered part of the Bible for some folks, but it was ultimately not included at the Council of Hippo. Nonetheless, we know 1st and 2nd century Christians quote from it.

[q]Now about baptism, baptize this way: after first uttering all of these things, baptize "into the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy Spirit" in running water. But if you do not have running water, baptize in other water. Now if you are not able to do so in cold water, do it in warm water. Now if you don't have either, pour water three times on the head, "into the name of the Father, and of the son, and of the holy Spirit." Now before the ritual cleansing, the baptizer and the one being baptized should fast, and any others who are able. Now you will give word for the one who is being baptized to fast for one or two days beforehand.[/q]

Since that is not in the Bible, do you have to ignore it? Can you use it? It was written around 50 AD by the remaining Disciples.

 

[gtsecc]

Baptism:

Infant baptism is not scriptural and was actually created in the 1400 or 1500 hundreds by the catholic church.

I suppose I am not allowed to debate here, but I don't see what is wrong with clearing up historical facts and dates.

Eastern Orthodox do infant Baptism and split around 1054.
Oriental Orthodox do infant Baptism and split after Chalcedon - 5th century.
The idea of Adult baptism was from the Anabaptist in 1521 in France.

 

[Dispy]

Well, the Bible contains certain writings, BUT not all writings that are know to be true. The Didache WAS considered part of the Bible for some folks, but it was ultimately not included at the Council of Hippo. Nonetheless, we know 1st and 2nd century Christians quote from it.

[q]Now about baptism, baptize this way: after first uttering all of these things, baptize "into the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy Spirit" in running water. But if you do not have running water, baptize in other water. Now if you are not able to do so in cold water, do it in warm water. Now if you don't have either, pour water three times on the head, "into the name of the Father, and of the son, and of the holy Spirit." Now before the ritual cleansing, the baptizer and the one being baptized should fast, and any others who are able. Now you will give word for the one who is being baptized to fast for one or two days beforehand.[/q]

Since that is not in the Bible, do you have to ignore it? Can you use it? It was written around 50 AD by the remaining Disciples.

It is my firm belief that the entire Bible is written by men inspired by God. Therefore, I take it all as God's word to us.

I find no reference in the Bible that members of "the Body of Christ" need to undergo the water rite of baptism. It is also my firm firm belief that the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5 is the baptism of 1Cor.12:13. It is the Spirit's baptism (dry-cleaning) into the Body of Christ at the moment the moment one puts their faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for their salvation.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[- DRA -]

I find no reference in the Bible that members of "the Body of Christ" need to undergo the water rite of baptism. It is also my firm firm belief that the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5 is the baptism of 1Cor.12:13. It is the Spirit's baptism (dry-cleaning) into the Body of Christ at the moment the moment one puts their faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for their salvation.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

The Jews on Pentecost that believed the preaching of the apostle Peter asked what they should do when they were convicted of killing Jesus -- who Peter declared to be both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36). Peter's response was for them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (verse 38). Three thousand Jews obeyed this command (verse 41), and were added to the church by the Lord (verse 47). What was the Spirit's role in this process (1 Cor. 12:13)? Ask yourself who was directing the words of the apostle Peter when he delivered the sermon in Acts chapter 2 and told those Jews who accepted the message what to do to have their sins taken away (verse 38). Wasn't it the Holy Spirit, who came upon the apostles in Acts 2:1-4, just as the Lord promised them in John 16:7-14?

The baptism commanded in Acts 2:38 was "in the name of Jesus Christ." Compare this to the baptism "in the name of the Lord" in Acts 10:47-48 that was clearly identified as being in water. Thus, by harmonizing the two passages, we conclude that the baptism in the name of the Lord (same as in the name of Jesus Christ) was for the remission of sins and was in water. This also harmonizes with Acts 8:35-39. Philip "preached Jesus." In response to this preaching, the eunuch desired to be baptized in water. These examples of conversions early in the book of Acts clearly show that the apostles and first-century Christians were busy carrying the gospel to the world just as Jesus commanded them (see Mark 16:15-16).

 

[SoulFly51]

I find no reference in the Bible that members of "the Body of Christ" need to undergo the water rite of baptism. It is also my firm firm belief that the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5 is the baptism of 1Cor.12:13. It is the Spirit's baptism (dry-cleaning) into the Body of Christ at the moment the moment one puts their faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for their salvation.

Is that in the Bible?

 

[gtsecc]

So, if the Didache say you have to use water - you would reject it as spurious?

 

[- DRA -]

In the event that you did not read what I posted in "Babies and Baptism, I will repost it. It presents my views.

To thouroughly understand the meaning of water baptism, we must look at the history and purpose of the water rite and see if it still applies today in the dispensation of Grace.

In Genesis 12:1-3, the promise to Abram was that the nations would be blessed through his seed (Isreal).

In Exodus 19, 3-6 God told Moses to tell the children of Israel that if they would obey His voice and keep His covenant, then they would be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

In Exodus 29:1-4 We have the establishment of the priesthood and the washing with water (baptism) was a requirement.

In 2Samuel7:13-16 we have the promise of an everlasting kingdom and throne.

In Matthew 3:1-2 we find John the Baptist preaching repentance and baptism and proclaiming that kingdom at hand (about to be set up).

(The dispensation of the Law was still in effect at this time and works were required to demonstrate faith. Therefore, salvation required believing, repenting and baptism. Baptism was the vehicle (work) that demonstrated faith. Further, I do believe that the water signified that one baptized became a member of "that nation of priests.")

In Matthew 3:11 John says the the One (Jesus) that was to follow him would baptize them with the Holy Ghost and with fire. The Holy Ghost baptism by Jesus did not require water. That could be accomplished by the laying on of hands as Acts 8:14-17 and 19-1-6 shows. However, those that did believe and were baptized in water at Pentecost did receive the Holy Ghost because they did as commanded in Acts 2:38.

In Matthew 4:23 we find Jesus preaching "the gospel of the kingdom"

In Matthew 10:5-7 we find Jesus COMMANDING His disciples to preach "the kingdom at hand" (about to be set up) to the Jews only.

Why to the Jews only? Because it was prophesied in Isaiah 42:6 that they were to be "for a light unto the Gentiles." Wasn't Abram promised that the nations (Gentiles) would be blessed through his seed (Israel) and didn't God tell Moses that if they kept the covenants of God that they would be "a nation of priests."

After the crucifiction of Christ Jesus gave the 11, the "so called" great commission. According to Luke 24:47, they were to begin at Jerusalem. Why? Because that is where Moses's seat was and the scribes and Pharisees sat in it, Mat23:2,3. How else could the nation of Israel be "a light unto the Gentiles" unless the leaders and children of Israel became that "nation of priest" by accepting their long promised Messiah. I doubt if the 12 could have done it all by themselves in their lifetime.

How did the leaders respond?. Well first they rejected God the Father when they refused to be baptizsed of John and ALLOWED him to be killed. Then they rejected God the Son when they DEMANNDED that Jesus be Crucified. Even after Peter gave them a second opportunity for Jesus and His kingdom to return (Acts 3:14-21) they rejected the Holy Ghost by KILLING (stoning) Stephen.

Now that the Jews, as a nation, rejected the Trinity, How could they be that "nation of priests" and a "light unto the Gentiles?" How could that "everlasting kingdom" be set up when they rejected the King. How could all the OT promises made to the Jewish fathers be fulfilled? They can't as long as the Jews do not recognize their King. The Jews, as a nation, do not recognize Jesus as their long promised Messiah, even to this day.

How is the "good news" of "the gospel of the kingdom" through the "so called" great commission going to now go to the nations now? Didn't the 12, that were commissioned to go to the nations, agree with Paul that he should go to the heathen (Gentiles) and that they would stay with the "circumcision" (Jews)? Are the 12 now out of the will of God? Wasn't Paul raised up to go to the Gentiles, kings and children of Israel? Why was there a need for Paul to be raised up to go the the entire world alone when there were already 12 commissioned to do so? Did Paul go about preaching "the gospel of the kingdom" (Law) and that "the kingdom at hand?" No!!! He never once offered the kingdom and the gospel he preached was "the gospel of the grace of God." Aren't Grace and Law opposite doctrines? He never once preached "repent and be baptize" as Peter did.

We learn from Romans 11:7-12, that Israel as been temporarily blinded until "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (rapture of Body of Christ) vs 25, and then "all Israel shall be saved; as it is written..." vs 26. After the rapture of the Church, the Blody of Christ, the dispensation of Grace will have ended and the dispensation of the Law will resume and the gospel of the kingdom will again be preached, "before the end come."

The "good news" of the gospel today is not "the kingdom is at hand" but salvation by "grace through faith" in the cross work of Christ. The Law was nailed to the cross and works are no longer required.

I said all of the above to show that the rite of water baptism was connected to the nation of Israel only. We learn from Hebrews 7 & 8 that the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood, with its washings (baptisms), was done away with. Christ is now our high priest after the order of Meschisedec, a Gentile priest. There is no water connected to that priesthood. Not once in Paul's Epistles does he require water baptism. Yes he did baptize a few but that was before he received the full knowlsedge of "the mystery."

Today according to Eph 4:5 there is only "one baptism." It is the baptism of 1Cor12:13 "For by one Spirit (Holy Spirit) are we all baptized into one body...." the Body of Christ (dry cleaned).`

I can see no reason or commandment for the water rite of baptism for the Body of Christ today. Yes it was a requirement under "the gospel of the kingdom."

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

To start off, thanks for posting Scripture to show how you determined what you believe to be the truth. Not many people are willing or able to do this today. This is commendable. However, we must be careful in our studies to ensure that we determine truth. We should be like the Bereans, and study the Scriptures to make sure the things we hear and believe are in harmony with God’s word. I am confident that we would agree that this is necessary. Consequently, I would like to review your message and discuss “problems” I see with your understanding of the issues before us.

First off, I do not believe the seed or blessing from Abraham promised in Gen. 12:1-3 was the nation of Israel. This is a reference to Jesus (see Acts 3:20-26; Matthew 1:1). He was the light to the Gentiles discussed in first few verses of Isaiah chapter 42.

Second, I believe that you misunderstand the kingdom. Consider. Both John and Jesus began preaching that the kingdom was “at hand” (close) e.g. Matt. 3:2; Mark 1:15). Jesus even prophesied that some of the disciples there would not die before the kingdom was set up (Mark 9:1). True to the Lord’s word, the kingdom was established in the first-century – within the lifetime of those who heard Jesus’ promise (see Col. 1:13; Rev. 1:9). I point this out because your reasoning leaves me with the distinct impression you are still waiting for the kingdom. Why wait? It is already here, and has been for about 2,000 years.

Third, the law of Moses included many washings (note Heb. 6:1). However, it wasn’t any of these that John preached to prepare the way for the Lord. John preached a baptism of repentance (Matt. 3:11). He was preparing the people to receive the Lord (Malachi 3:1a). They did this by repenting of their sins. Later, the Jews that accepted that Jesus was the Messiah (the Christ) were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (by His authority – not John’s) in Acts 2:38 to have their sins taken away by being united with Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection (see Romans 6:3-11). This is the baptism that Jesus authorized the apostles to preach i.e. Matt. 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16.

Fourth, there are only two instances in the New Testament where Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit – the apostles in Acts chapter 2 and the Gentiles in Acts chapter 10. In both instances, it was clearly evident what occurred i.e. speaking in tongues. In addition to this, a measure of the Holy Spirit was given by the laying on of the apostle’s hands (Acts 8:17-18; 19:6). Have you considered why the Holy Spirit was promised to the apostles (see John 16:7-14)? We now have all truth i.e. 2 Tim. 3:16-17; James 1:25; 2 Pet. 1:3; Jude 3). What more do we need? We now have God’s complete word (delivered with the guidance of the Holy Spirit) that gives all we need to please and serve the Lord.

 

[Dispy]

I find no reference in the Bible that members of "the Body of Christ" need to undergo the water rite of baptism. It is also my firm firm belief that the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5 is the baptism of 1Cor.12:13. It is the Spirit's baptism (dry-cleaning) into the Body of Christ at the moment the moment one puts their faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for their salvation."

The Jews on Pentecost that believed the preaching of the apostle Peter asked what they should do when they were convicted of killing Jesus -- who Peter declared to be both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36). Peter's response was for them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (verse 38). Three thousand Jews obeyed this command (verse 41), and were added to the church by the Lord (verse 47). What was the Spirit's role in this process (1 Cor. 12:13)? Ask yourself who was directing the words of the apostle Peter when he delivered the sermon in Acts chapter 2 and told those Jews who accepted the message what to do to have their sins taken away (verse 38). Wasn't it the Holy Spirit, who came upon the apostles in Acts 2:1-4, just as the Lord promised them in John 16:7-14?

The baptism commanded in Acts 2:38 was "in the name of Jesus Christ." Compare this to the baptism "in the name of the Lord" in Acts 10:47-48 that was clearly identified as being in water. Thus, by harmonizing the two passages, we conclude that the baptism in the name of the Lord (same as in the name of Jesus Christ) was for the remission of sins and was in water. This also harmonizes with Acts 8:35-39. Philip "preached Jesus." In response to this preaching, the eunuch desired to be baptized in water. These examples of conversions early in the book of Acts clearly show that the apostles and first-century Christians were busy carrying the gospel to the world just as Jesus commanded them (see Mark 16:15-16).

I totally agree with you that those at Pentecost heard what Peter preached were baptized, received the Holy Ghost, and added to the Church. However, Jesus was the baptizer with the Holy Ghost (Matthew 3:11).

The disciples of Jesus were given the Holy Ghost prior to Pentecost but not the power (Luke 20:22). Jesus in Luke 24:49 said "...but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from high. So their power of the Holy Gost came in fulfillment of promise.

Yes, at Pentecost water baptism was still in effect, and those that repented and were baptized did recieve the power of the Holy Ghost and added to the Jewish church, not the Body of Christ, which was still future revelation.

The Body of Christ, the Church for today, was not made until after the nation of Israel was set aside after the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7.

(Now keep in mind that prior to the setting aside of Israel, for one that was a Gentile to serve the true and living God, that one had to become a Jew (proselyte) and place themselves under the Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws of Moses.)

In Acts 8 we find that Ethiopian was saved and baptized in water. Why? Because the kingdom program with its water baptism was still in effect. But, you will notice that he (the Etheopian) did believe and was then bapized. He then became a Jewish Proselyte.

It was in Acts 10 that Peter first learned that the Gentiles were no longer to be considered "unclean." That meant that the Jew and Gentiles were now on equal footing and without distinction. Did that bring the Gentiles up to the same level at the Jews? NO! It put the Jews on the same level as the Gentiles who were set aside back in Genesis 11 at the Tower of Babel.

Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them ALL (Jews and Gentiles) in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all."

You will notice that in Acts 10;44 that all those that were with Cornelius were filled with the Holy Ghost PRIOR to being water baptized. They were not required to repent and be baptized prior to receiving the Holy Ghost as in Acts 2:38. That is why those of the cirucmcision were so astonished. So you see; changes were taking place. Water baptism was still in the program at that time. There was no command that they had to be baptized.

When we get to the Spirit baptism of 1Cor.12:13, it is not Jesus that is the Baptizer as in Acts 2. It is NOW the Holy Spirit that is the Baptizer. It is not for the remission of sins and receive the gifts of the Holy Ghost, but it is for entrance into The Body of Chris, the Chruch for today.

When Jesus was upon the earth, He preached, and commanded his disciples to preach "the gospel of the kingdom"/"the kingdom at hand; which had to do with the fulfillment of prophesy. It was to be carried out via the "so called" great commission.

Being Israel rejected their King and His Kingdom, there was no way that that commission could be carried out. Therefore, God set the nation of Israel aside and raised up Saul/Paul to usher in the dispensation of Grace. Not if fulfillment of prophesy, but with the "revelation of the mystery which was kept secret since the world began."

The "gospel of the kingdom" was preached with the Law in effect. The "gospel of the grace of God," which Paul preached, was preached and the Law no longer in effect. Even though Paul did water baptize some, he NEVER anyone to be water baptized. Please read my posts PART 2 and 3. They will explain why.

James, Cephas (Peter) and John recognized that their commission could not be carried out, and in Galatians 2:9 agreed with Paul that they would stay with the circumcision (Jews) while he should go to the Gentiles.

One should never read future revelation into past events. That would be like reading the Laws of Moses into the Garden of Eden or reading the battles of WWI into the battles of WW2. Therefore one should never read the revelatons to Paul into the Gospels and the 1st 7 chapters of Acrts. The gospels, and early Acts, have to do with the nation of Israel under the Law. The revelations to Paul are after Israel and the Law are set aside, and have to do with salvation by Grace through FAITH ALONE based upon the Cross work of Christ according to the revelation of the mystery revealed to Paul.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Dispy]

Is that in the Bible?

YES.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

 

[constance]

To the original poster -

Disciples of Christ congregations accept infant baptism from another church as valid for church membership, although we perform believer's baptism.

However, if you feel strongly led to be baptized, you should speak to your pastor - it is not at all uncommon for a convert to desire baptism.

Constance

 

[Dispy]

To start off, thanks for posting Scripture to show how you determined what you believe to be the truth. Not many people are willing or able to do this today. This is commendable. However, we must be careful in our studies to ensure that we determine truth. We should be like the Bereans, and study the Scriptures to make sure the things we hear and believe are in harmony with God’s word. I am confident that we would agree that this is necessary. Consequently, I would like to review your message and discuss “problems” I see with your understanding of the issues before us.

THANK YOU for your kind remarks.

Every effort on my part is made to ensure that what I believe is based on "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" (2Tim.2:15).

First off, I do not believe the seed or blessing from Abraham promised in Gen. 12:1-3 was the nation of Israel. This is a reference to Jesus (see Acts 3:20-26; Matthew 1:1). He was the light to the Gentiles discussed in first few verses of Isaiah chapter 42.

I will agree that in Genesis 12:1-3 is also referring ti Jesus. However, the physical seed of Abraham is the nation of Israel. Isaac was of the seed of Abraham and his name was changed to Israel. "Genesis 12:21: "...for in Isaac shall they seed becalled."

Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion (Jerusalem), and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in they moutn, shall not depart of of they mouth, not out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and forever.

60:1 Arise, shine: for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
2 For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and the kings to the brightness of thy rising.

The above prophesy will be fulfilled when Israel will recognizes their Messiah at His 2nd coming. However, it would have happen when Jesus was upon the earth and Israel, had Israel accepted Jesus as there Messiah. But they rejected their King and His Kingdom. Also, had Israel repended in Acts 3:19-20, Jesus would have returned and established His Kingdom.

Second, I believe that you misunderstand the kingdom. Consider. Both John and Jesus began preaching that the kingdom was “at hand” (close) e.g. Matt. 3:2; Mark 1:15). Jesus even prophesied that some of the disciples there would not die before the kingdom was set up (Mark 9:1). True to the Lord’s word, the kingdom was established in the first-century – within the lifetime of those who heard Jesus’ promise (see Col. 1:13; Rev. 1:9). I point this out because your reasoning leaves me with the distinct impression you are still waiting for the kingdom. Why wait? It is already here, and has been for about 2,000 years.

Yes, both John and Jesus preached "the kingdom at hand." According to OT prophesy ist was the time for that to happen. The King was born in Jerusalem, but His subjects cried "crucify Him." When Peter, at Pentecost, in Acts 3:19:20 told his listeners what they had to do in order for Jesus to return, they, as a nation didnot repent. Therefore, the kingdom program with its preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom" was interrupted and God raised up Saul/Paul to usher in "the dispensation of the grace of God" according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.

I fail to see how we can be living in the kingdom age today because I don't see the restoration of all things. Further, the kingdom is to last 1,000 years and you claim it has been for about 2,000 years now.

Third, the law of Moses included many washings (note Heb. 6:1). However, it wasn’t any of these that John preached to prepare the way for the Lord. John preached a baptism of repentance (Matt. 3:11). He was preparing the people to receive the Lord (Malachi 3:1a). They did this by repenting of their sins. Later, the Jews that accepted that Jesus was the Messiah (the Christ) were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (by His authority – not John’s) in Acts 2:38 to have their sins taken away by being united with Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection (see Romans 6:3-11). This is the baptism that Jesus authorized the apostles to preach i.e. Matt. 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16.

I find no water in the baptism of Romans 6:3-11. Please explain to me how the baptism of Romans 6:3-11 be the baptism that Jesus authorized the apostles to preach in Matt. 28:18-20 and Mark 16:15-26 when it was still part of the mystery that was kept secret, since the world began? The purpose of the Cross was unknown prior to the raising up of the Apostle Paul. Even Peter at Pentecost preached the cross as something to be repented of.

There are at least 12 different baptisms mention in the Bible. 2 are real (no water ceremony), 5 are figurative (no water ceremony) and 5 are ritual (water ceremony). Today there is one baptism (Eph.4:5) in effect and it is the Spirit (Holy) baptism of 1Cor.12.13.

Fourth, there are only two instances in the New Testament where Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit – the apostles in Acts chapter 2 and the Gentiles in Acts chapter 10. In both instances, it was clearly evident what occurred i.e. speaking in tongues. In addition to this, a measure of the Holy Spirit was given by the laying on of the apostle’s hands (Acts 8:17-18; 19:6). Have you considered why the Holy Spirit was promised to the apostles (see John 16:7-14)? We now have all truth i.e. 2 Tim. 3:16-17; James 1:25; 2 Pet. 1:3; Jude 3). What more do we need? We now have God’s complete word (delivered with the guidance of the Holy Spirit) that gives all we need to please and serve the Lord.

The disciples received the Holy Ghost in John 20:21. However, they did not receive the power until Pentecost. Jesus told them in Luke 24:49 to wait in Jerusalem "until ye be endued with power from on high."

The purpose of the Holy Ghost power was because Israel was "a sign nation." Isreal always required a sign and God alway gave them one. Signs were proof that it was from God. Those a Pentecost were given the Holy Ghost to bring all Israel back under one roof (so to speak), and then to be that "nation of priests" which would be a blessing to the famlies of the earth (nations), as promised Abram back in Genesis 12:1-3.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Stinker]

I find no water in the baptism of Romans 6:3-11. [Dispy #35]

Even if you do not understand Rom.6:3-11 to be speaking of water baptism, it still means the same as you understand it Dispy.

It is a physical representation of what happened to all believers, as what 1Cor.12:13 teaches.

 

[gtsecc]

If scripture seems to support 2 views, then can you use the didache as a tie breaker?

 

[MbiaJc]

Stinker

Hi Stinker:

Before one is water baptized, they must first have been spiritually 'born-again' according to Jn.3:3-8

No! I think you misunderstand that scripture for Peter says,

Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

What Peter is saying is be baptized(water baptism) in Jesus name for the forgivness of sin and you shall be baptized by the Holy Spirit(born again\ quickened\ made alive).

Johns deciples had been baptized for the remission of sin , but not in Jesus name and did not recieve the Holy Spirit till the Apostles laid hands on them.

 

[Dispy]

I find no water in the baptism of Romans 6:3-11. [Dispy #35]

Even if you do not understand Rom.6:3-11 to be speaking of water baptism, it still means the same as you understand it Dispy.

It is a physical representation of what happened to all believers, as what 1Cor.12:13 teaches.

Chapter and verse for your last sentence please.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

 

[Dispy]

Hi Stinker:



No! I think you misunderstand that scripture for Peter says,

Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

What Peter is saying is be baptized(water baptism) in Jesus name for the forgivness of sin and you shall be baptized by the Holy Spirit(born again\ quickened\ made alive).

Johns deciples had been baptized for the remission of sin , but not in Jesus name and did not recieve the Holy Spirit till the Apostles laid hands on them.

In Acts 2:38 it is not the Holy Spirit that is the baptizer. It is Jesus who is the baptizer as John says in Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier then I, ...:he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."

Those believer in Acts 8:16 and Acts 19:2-6 were already baptized under John's baptism and didn't have to be re-baptized in order to receive the Holy Spirit.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!