Baptism

[QuagDabPeg]

Is there a theolgoical reason that we do not baptise by immersion?

 

[FullyMT]

Um...we do baptise by immersion, but we also allow sprinkling and I think one other method I can't remember (half immersion?).

 

[Paul S]

We do baptise by immersion. That's why most modern churches have baptismal Jacuzzis in them.

However, the tradition in the West has been by pouring, probably because it's very difficult to baptise a baby by immersion.

Sprinkling, since 1983, has been valid but illicit. Pouring and immersion are allowed.

 

[RhetorTheo]

I believe the Melkites baptize by immersion. I was an adult, and too big for the baptismal tank at the parish, but large amounts of water were used, not sprinkling.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear RhetorTheo:

Some Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches will use a horse trough. What did they use for you?

BTW: Who is that in the picture in your avatar?

 

[QuagDabPeg]

But what is the reason they tend to pour instead of immersion. My understanding was that immersion was only used at Easter time or something. Is it just for practicality reasons?

 

[Annabel Lee]

Um...we do baptise by immersion, but we also allow sprinkling and I think one other method I can't remember (half immersion?).

Partial immersion. That's how my daughter was baptized.

 

[RhetorTheo]

Dear RhetorTheo:

Some Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches will use a horse trough. What did they use for you?

BTW: Who is that in the picture in your avatar?

Aria,

It was a large metal tank, I believe intended for baby baptisms. Handfuls of water were taken out.

The picture is of the Melkite Patriach, Bishop Gregory.

 

[Paul S]

In the early church, immersion was used, but pouring developed as not everybody could be immersed, particularly the sick or those in prison.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm

"Proximate matter" in section VI discusses the various forms and how they developed.

 

[Skripper]

But what is the reason they tend to pour instead of immersion. My understanding was that immersion was only used at Easter time or something. Is it just for practicality reasons?

Yes, partly for practical reasons, I would think. Also, immersion is not only at Easter, it's throughout the year. The method of baptism varies from parish to parish. Some pour, some immerse. I would imagine it's up to the Pastor which method he prefers and whether or not the church has a baptismal font large enough for immersion.

Would it surprise you to know that valid Christian baptisms by pouring have been going on since the very first century . . . even before the year 100?

"Concerning baptism, baptize in this manner: Having said all these things beforehand, baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in living water [that is, in running water, as in a river]. If there is no living water, baptize in other water; and, if you are not able to use cold water, use warm. If you have neither, pour water three times upon the head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." (The Didache, AD 70-90) Just like Catholics still do today . . . Notice that even when it refers to "living water [that is, running water, as in a river]", it doesn't mention anything about full immersion. That's more than likely because, even in a river, one could be validly baptized either by immersion or by having the running water scooped out of the river and poured upon the head. Which, by the way, is exactly how Jesus is often depicted being baptized by John in the Jordan River in ancient Christian artwork . . . by pouring . . . even in the Jordan. Come to think of it, I've never seen any ancient artwork depicting immersion baptism, of Jesus or anyone else. All the ancient illustrations I've ever seen depict pouring . . .

 

[MariaRegina]

Yes, partly for practical reasons, I would think. Also, immersion is not only at Easter, it's throughout the year. The method of baptism varies from parish to parish. Some pour, some immerse.

Would it surprise you to know that valid Christian baptisms by pouring have been going on since the very first century . . . even before the year 100?

"Concerning baptism, baptize in this manner: Having said all these things beforehand, baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in living water [that is, in running water, as in a river]. If there is no living water, baptize in other water; and, if you are not able to use cold water, use warm. If you have neither, pour water three times upon the head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." (The Didache, AD 70-90) Just like Catholics still do today . . . Notice that even when it refers to "living water [that is, running water, as in a river]", it doesn't mention anything about full immersion.

Aren't you quoting from the DIDACHE. which was written around 50 to 60 AD?

Sorry I just found your reference to the Didache. When I posted your quote above, I could see it in bold, whereas I couldn't before.

 

[Skripper]

Aren't you quoting from the DIDACHE. which was written around 50 to 60 AD?

Sorry I just found your reference to the Didache. When I posted your quote above, I could see it in bold, whereas I couldn't before.

Yes, the Didache. However, there is some scholarly debate as to the exact date of its writing. I guess nobody really knows for sure. I've seen different dates attributed to it but most scholars date it sometime prior to the year 100 AD, althoug I've seen a few that date it shortly after. I suppose some do date it around 50-60 AD as well.

 

[Paul S]

We had four baptisms at my parish today, all by pouring. I love baptisms.

 

[AMDG]

Normally when we have Baptisms at my parish church, it is done by immersion. We have a two level pool as a Baptismal/Holy Water Font.

The lower part is a pool and is shaped like a cross. There are three steps--for the Trinity--leading down into it. On Easter, adults (and even some children) who are Baptized wear purple robes and the dye in the robes turn the water a light purple. Those who have been Baptized said that the effect was like they could actually SEE their sins being washed away.

The upper part of the pool is for the Holy Water and for the Baptism of babies. Babies that are immersed are usually done au natural. However those who are sick or too young (one baby was only two WEEKS old) can be Baptized fully clothed by the pouring method.

In the military chapel, there isn't any room at all for one of these fonts, so BOTH babies and adults are Baptized by pouring.

I've never seen sprinkling, but I know that I was surprised to find a verse from Ezekiel (Ezekiel 36:25) mentioning the sprinkling of water to make one spiritually clean.

 

[Paul S]

We have a baptismal font at my church.

Another verse about sprinkling is Psalm 50:9: "Asperges me, Domine, hyssopo, et mundabor: lavabis me, et super nivem dealbabor." - "Thou shalt sprinkle me, Lord, with hyssop, and I shall be cleansed: Thou shalt wash me, and I shall be made whiter than snow."

Purple robes? Shouldn't they be white?

 

[FullyMT]

My youth ministers new born (and adopted) daughter Erin Elizabeth was baptised at Mass tonight And it was immersion.

 

[AMDG]

Purple robes? Shouldn't they be white?

They change into dry white robes afterwards. They are even encouraged to wear their white robes to Church services during the week and even next Sunday.

Forgot--They must drain the pool and refill it, cause the water is clear then.

 

[Skripper]

They change into dry white robes afterwards. They are even encouraged to wear their white robes to Church services during the week and even next Sunday.

Forgot--They must drain the pool and refill it, cause the water is clear then.

Yup . . . cuz we know what frequently happens when babies are baptized . . . especially by immersion.

 

[MariaRegina]

Yup . . . cuz we know what frequently happens when babies are baptized . . . especially by immersion.

An infant boy issued a stream of yellow water on the floor which made a perfect arc. This occurred just after he was baptized because the sponsor was slow to cover him.

Aren't the candidates anointed with the oil of gladness before their baptism?

In the Melkite Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, the candidates are covered with blessed olive oil just before the baptism. Then after the baptism, the sponsors (who applied the oil) and the priest wash their hands in the font using a new bar of soap.

So, the blessed oily and soapy water is emptied into a special pit containing rocks.

 

[Skripper]

An infant boy issued a stream of yellow water on the floor which made a perfect arc. This occurred just after he was baptized because the sponsor was slow to cover him.

Aren't the candidates anointed with the oil of gladness before their baptism?

In the Melkite Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, the candidates are covered with blessed olive oil just before the baptism. Then after the baptism, the sponsors (who applied the oil) and the priest wash their hands in the font using a new bar of soap.

So, the blessed oily and soapy water is emptied into a special pit containing rocks.

Hmm . . . good question. Not sure if it's before or after in the baptisms I've seen. I seem to remember some babies crying . . . which would be an indication that they may have been cold and wet . . . which would suggest that they are annointed with oil after baptism? But I don't honestly know.