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Hey all..
I placed a good lesson about baptism with the Holy Spirit in the "Restoration Teaching" forum (above). Definitely not what you think, and certainly a huge pardigm shift for us cofCers (ICC inclusive). Pretty thorough study, but the ramifications for us (very good) and denominationalists (not good at all) is staggering (makes water baptism literally impossible to ignore and strips away any semblance of "symbolic" baptism or "outward sign of an inward grace"). Here's the first part. If it interests you, the rest is in the "Restoration Teaching" area..
Baptism en Holy Spirit
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so.
In examining scripture, I have found more than a few discrepancies with the commonly held view of the body toward Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I think we know the study of the Holy Spirit can be tedious, but Ive always found it to be rewarding. I seek first to point out the discrepancies, but I also offer a solution. The solution is not 100% iron-clad, but I believe falls more in line with scripture in many different areas than the traditional view. Though my premise is decidedly a paradigm shift of some magnitude, the premise does nothing to current church of Christ thought but refine and further define it. A similar view was held by Robert Milligan and Moses Lard, but not in quite the same manner. My premise came about largely by accident as I was doing some word analysis using various lexicographic tools. I do not claim to be a Greek grammarian by any stretch of the imagination, though if this premise sprouts some legs, I may take up a more serious study. I offer this work to the refining fire of my brethren and trust that if there is any legitimacy to the premise, someone of a higher caliber than I will help with any fine tuning. The search here is for truth, not accolades.
Let me begin by saying that if what I found is actually true, the
immediate and potential ramifications are staggering, to say the least. With that in mind, Ill try to keep this as readable and easy to understand as possible with a prayerful mind bound in the divinely inspired and infallible word of God. I believe I have done what (at least in my mind) is a thorough study, but this isnt the type of thing one takes to the masses on a whim. With that said, and again, with prayerful and humble minds, let us begin.
I will first offer up the discrepancies, a summary of the premise, and then the scriptural proofs. All translations are ASV unless otherwise noted.
DISCREPANCIES WITH THE CURRENT DOCTRINE OF THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT:
The phrase baptism of the Holy Spirit is foreign to scripture.
John spoke of Jesus baptizing you (humas) en pneumati hagioi
The future Apostles were most likely not present when John made his announcement in Mat 3:11, Mar 1:8, Luk 3:16, and Joh 1:33. He shall baptize you is not limited to the Apostles.
Joh 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.
** The Spirit of truth came from the Father and would abide with and actually be in the Apostles. Below, we see He was given to bear witness of Jesus. The giving was limited to the Apostles. No mention of a baptism with the Holy Spirit. Of special note (as well see below with the definition of en - en pneumati hagioi), is the fact that there is no the in any of the passages concerning the baptism en Holy Spirit, and the en is specifically translated in context to mean with the, through the, in the power of, or by means of.. in other words, the Holy Spirit as the instrument or means by which were baptized. The KJV/NASB renders with the for en, but the ASV renders in the, suggesting immersion in the Holy Spirit, which is incorrect. Now note that John 14:17 says (again, for the Apostles) that He (the Holy Spirit) shall be in you. We also see many passages speaking of the Spirit dwelling in Christians, but the point is, we do not see anyone being immersed (Gr. baptized) in the Holy Spirit not even the Apostles.
Joh 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, while yet abiding with you. 26 But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.
** The teaching/bringing to remembrance was limited to the Apostles. Here, the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, was whom the Father will send in Jesus name. No mention of a baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Joh 15:26-27 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me: 27 and ye also bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
** Limited to Apostles. Note that in v16, the Father shall give another Comforter, and in v26, Jesus will send the Comforter from the Father, even the Spirit of truth which proceedeth from the Father. No mention of a baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Joh 16:7-14 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you. 8 And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to the Father, and ye behold me no more; 11 of judgment, because the prince of this world hath been judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you.
** No mention of a baptism with the Holy Spirit. The Comforter that Jesus shall send will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. The Spirit of truth shall guide you (speaking here only to the Apostles) into all the truth
Act 1:6-8 They therefore, when they were come together, asked him, saying, Lord, dost thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set within His own authority. 8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
** The same type (though for the Apostles, a much higher degree) of power that was received by Cornelius, his house, and those disciples the Apostles would later lay their hands upon. The language is receive, Holy Spirit, and come upon, the same type of language used in Acts 19:6; 10:47; and 8:15,17,19.
Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, be not anxious how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that hour what ye shall speak.
** The same bringing to remembrance of John 14:26.
Mar 13:11 And when they lead you to judgment, and deliver you up, be not anxious beforehand what ye shall speak: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.
** Neither passage speaks of a baptism with the Holy Spirit.
When the Acts 19:2 question by Paul, Did you receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed was answered with not merely a Nay, but also, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given., Paul immediately knew to ask about their baptism. I stipulate Paul knew the Ephesus disciples were not only unaware of the gift of the Holy Spirit received upon being baptized in Christs name, but also were not aware that in Christs baptism, Johns prophecy is fulfilled. Jesus baptizes en (with the) Holy Spirit.
John 14, 15, 16, and Acts 1:6-8 do not speak of a baptism en Holy Spirit performed by Jesus, but of the Comforter, Spirit of Truth, and the Holy Spirit that proceeds from/is given by the Father and is sent by the Son.
John 16:7-14 speaks of the Comforter that Jesus will send that convicts the world, and the Spirit of Truth that guides the Apostles into all the truth, but still no baptism en HS.
Acts 1:6-8 speaks of the Holy Spirit coming upon them so they receive power (to bear witness). No baptism en Holy Spirit.
Gr. en (en 1722) ~ 2. with: in; then, it is used of what accompanies or characterizes, with, in the power of (not marking the origin or source of the power, but only the character of it). When it refers to an action, it is not (like d?? (dia 1223)) the effective instrument of it, but that which characterizes it.
5. used of that with which a person is surrounded, equipped, furnished, assisted, or acts, [W. § 48, a. 1 b.];
d. of the instrument or means by or with which anything is accomplished, owing to the influence of the Hebr. prep. ?? much more common in the sacred writ. than in prof. auth. (cf. W. § 48, a. 3 d.; B. 181 (157) and 329 (283) sq.), where we say with, by means of, by (through); Bullinger, E. W. A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament. Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 1999
**Of the approximately 74 definitions of en, this is the one specifically used for the baptism en Holy Spirit passages.. all of them (Mat 3:11, Mar 1:8, Luk 3:16, Joh 1:33, Acts 1:5 and 11:16).
Lk 24:49 And behold, I send forth the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city, until ye be clothed with power from on high.
** Jesus would be sending the promise of the Father, but they were to tarry until they were clothed with power from on high. The beginning of Jesus baptizing en (by/through/with/in the power of) the Holy Spirit is implied upon Jesus sending forth the promise of the Father (Acts 1:4-5). The Comforter and Spirit of truth (as we saw in the passages of John) are equated with the Apostles being clothed with power from on high.. thus we see two results from what most likely was a single occurrence ..the pouring forth on all nations the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:33; 10:45). Receipt of the Comforter/Spirit of truth in full measure directly by God was limited to the Apostles, but never the promise of the Father or baptism en Holy Spirit
Act 1:4-5 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: 5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized en Holy Spirit not many days hence.
** Here, the promise of the Father is equated directly to baptism en HS. No language to limit baptism en Holy Spirit only to the Apostles. This is the same prophecy made by John that was spoken to his crowds. The Apostles would be included, but there is no language here or in Johns prophecy that limits being baptized en Holy Spirit to the Apostles (such as the whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, These things have I spoken unto you, while yet abiding with you, bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you, because ye have been with me from the beginning, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come (alluding to Mat 10:19 and Mar 13:11)-type language we find in the John 14, 15, and 17 passages for the giving and sending of the Comforter and Spirit of truth).
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so.
In examining scripture, I have found more than a few discrepancies with the commonly held view of the body toward Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I think we know the study of the Holy Spirit can be tedious, but Ive always found it to be rewarding. I seek first to point out the discrepancies, but I also offer a solution. The solution is not 100% iron-clad, but I believe falls more in line with scripture in many different areas than the traditional view. Though my premise is decidedly a paradigm shift of some magnitude, the premise does nothing to current church of Christ thought but refine and further define it. A similar view was held by Robert Milligan and Moses Lard, but not in quite the same manner. My premise came about largely by accident as I was doing some word analysis using various lexicographic tools. I do not claim to be a Greek grammarian by any stretch of the imagination, though if this premise sprouts some legs, I may take up a more serious study. I offer this work to the refining fire of my brethren and trust that if there is any legitimacy to the premise, someone of a higher caliber than I will help with any fine tuning. The search here is for truth, not accolades.
Let me begin by saying that if what I found is actually true, the
immediate and potential ramifications are staggering, to say the least. With that in mind, Ill try to keep this as readable and easy to understand as possible with a prayerful mind bound in the divinely inspired and infallible word of God. I believe I have done what (at least in my mind) is a thorough study, but this isnt the type of thing one takes to the masses on a whim. With that said, and again, with prayerful and humble minds, let us begin.
I will first offer up the discrepancies, a summary of the premise, and then the scriptural proofs. All translations are ASV unless otherwise noted.
DISCREPANCIES WITH THE CURRENT DOCTRINE OF THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT:
The phrase baptism of the Holy Spirit is foreign to scripture.
John spoke of Jesus baptizing you (humas) en pneumati hagioi
The future Apostles were most likely not present when John made his announcement in Mat 3:11, Mar 1:8, Luk 3:16, and Joh 1:33. He shall baptize you is not limited to the Apostles.
Joh 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.
** The Spirit of truth came from the Father and would abide with and actually be in the Apostles. Below, we see He was given to bear witness of Jesus. The giving was limited to the Apostles. No mention of a baptism with the Holy Spirit. Of special note (as well see below with the definition of en - en pneumati hagioi), is the fact that there is no the in any of the passages concerning the baptism en Holy Spirit, and the en is specifically translated in context to mean with the, through the, in the power of, or by means of.. in other words, the Holy Spirit as the instrument or means by which were baptized. The KJV/NASB renders with the for en, but the ASV renders in the, suggesting immersion in the Holy Spirit, which is incorrect. Now note that John 14:17 says (again, for the Apostles) that He (the Holy Spirit) shall be in you. We also see many passages speaking of the Spirit dwelling in Christians, but the point is, we do not see anyone being immersed (Gr. baptized) in the Holy Spirit not even the Apostles.
Joh 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, while yet abiding with you. 26 But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.
** The teaching/bringing to remembrance was limited to the Apostles. Here, the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, was whom the Father will send in Jesus name. No mention of a baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Joh 15:26-27 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me: 27 and ye also bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
** Limited to Apostles. Note that in v16, the Father shall give another Comforter, and in v26, Jesus will send the Comforter from the Father, even the Spirit of truth which proceedeth from the Father. No mention of a baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Joh 16:7-14 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you. 8 And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to the Father, and ye behold me no more; 11 of judgment, because the prince of this world hath been judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you.
** No mention of a baptism with the Holy Spirit. The Comforter that Jesus shall send will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. The Spirit of truth shall guide you (speaking here only to the Apostles) into all the truth
Act 1:6-8 They therefore, when they were come together, asked him, saying, Lord, dost thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set within His own authority. 8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
** The same type (though for the Apostles, a much higher degree) of power that was received by Cornelius, his house, and those disciples the Apostles would later lay their hands upon. The language is receive, Holy Spirit, and come upon, the same type of language used in Acts 19:6; 10:47; and 8:15,17,19.
Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, be not anxious how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that hour what ye shall speak.
** The same bringing to remembrance of John 14:26.
Mar 13:11 And when they lead you to judgment, and deliver you up, be not anxious beforehand what ye shall speak: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.
** Neither passage speaks of a baptism with the Holy Spirit.
When the Acts 19:2 question by Paul, Did you receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed was answered with not merely a Nay, but also, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given., Paul immediately knew to ask about their baptism. I stipulate Paul knew the Ephesus disciples were not only unaware of the gift of the Holy Spirit received upon being baptized in Christs name, but also were not aware that in Christs baptism, Johns prophecy is fulfilled. Jesus baptizes en (with the) Holy Spirit.
John 14, 15, 16, and Acts 1:6-8 do not speak of a baptism en Holy Spirit performed by Jesus, but of the Comforter, Spirit of Truth, and the Holy Spirit that proceeds from/is given by the Father and is sent by the Son.
John 16:7-14 speaks of the Comforter that Jesus will send that convicts the world, and the Spirit of Truth that guides the Apostles into all the truth, but still no baptism en HS.
Acts 1:6-8 speaks of the Holy Spirit coming upon them so they receive power (to bear witness). No baptism en Holy Spirit.
Gr. en (en 1722) ~ 2. with: in; then, it is used of what accompanies or characterizes, with, in the power of (not marking the origin or source of the power, but only the character of it). When it refers to an action, it is not (like d?? (dia 1223)) the effective instrument of it, but that which characterizes it.
5. used of that with which a person is surrounded, equipped, furnished, assisted, or acts, [W. § 48, a. 1 b.];
d. of the instrument or means by or with which anything is accomplished, owing to the influence of the Hebr. prep. ?? much more common in the sacred writ. than in prof. auth. (cf. W. § 48, a. 3 d.; B. 181 (157) and 329 (283) sq.), where we say with, by means of, by (through); Bullinger, E. W. A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament. Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 1999
**Of the approximately 74 definitions of en, this is the one specifically used for the baptism en Holy Spirit passages.. all of them (Mat 3:11, Mar 1:8, Luk 3:16, Joh 1:33, Acts 1:5 and 11:16).
Lk 24:49 And behold, I send forth the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city, until ye be clothed with power from on high.
** Jesus would be sending the promise of the Father, but they were to tarry until they were clothed with power from on high. The beginning of Jesus baptizing en (by/through/with/in the power of) the Holy Spirit is implied upon Jesus sending forth the promise of the Father (Acts 1:4-5). The Comforter and Spirit of truth (as we saw in the passages of John) are equated with the Apostles being clothed with power from on high.. thus we see two results from what most likely was a single occurrence ..the pouring forth on all nations the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:33; 10:45). Receipt of the Comforter/Spirit of truth in full measure directly by God was limited to the Apostles, but never the promise of the Father or baptism en Holy Spirit
Act 1:4-5 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: 5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized en Holy Spirit not many days hence.
** Here, the promise of the Father is equated directly to baptism en HS. No language to limit baptism en Holy Spirit only to the Apostles. This is the same prophecy made by John that was spoken to his crowds. The Apostles would be included, but there is no language here or in Johns prophecy that limits being baptized en Holy Spirit to the Apostles (such as the whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, These things have I spoken unto you, while yet abiding with you, bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you, because ye have been with me from the beginning, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come (alluding to Mat 10:19 and Mar 13:11)-type language we find in the John 14, 15, and 17 passages for the giving and sending of the Comforter and Spirit of truth).
(Part 2 in Restoration Movement Formal Discussion / Teaching area...)
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