Let us set aside whether or not water baptsim is an essential and focus on the act of water baptism itself and the preliminary teaching from the Bible that would do well to accompany this ordinance and most powerful outward testimony of an internal transformation (that is, water baptism).
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Baptism Service
- Thread starter johnd
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Water Baptism Testifies to the New Nature and the New Covenant
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Isaiah 54:9 To me this is like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth. So now I have sworn not to be angry with you, never to rebuke you again. 10 Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed, says the LORD, who has compassion on you.
The Good News is that we through Christ can appease the wrath of God and will no longer be subject to eternal judgment.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Isaiah 54:9 To me this is like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth. So now I have sworn not to be angry with you, never to rebuke you again. 10 Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed, says the LORD, who has compassion on you.
The Good News is that we through Christ can appease the wrath of God and will no longer be subject to eternal judgment.
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Hi, John. I agree that the topic needs to be studied, thoroughly.johnd said:
Of course, by the way you have phrase this ("... this ordinance and most powerful outward testimony of an internal transformation..."), you have already decided what Scripture says. That is, you have defined baptism in a way that does not have Biblical support, but rather reflects one theological position. Nowhere in the Bible do we find the Scripture defining Baptism as an ordinance. Nor is it defined as an "outward testimony of an internal transformation".
Someone once said, "What does the text say?" Most people do not read the texts, but read into the text their own theological presuppositions.
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Tenorvoice
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in the book of Acts, it says:
Ac 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
Acts 9:18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Sauls eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength
Acts 16:33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard him believed and were baptized.
every time, the moment they were saved they were baptized. THis is the first obedient act that a new beliver does.
It is an outward profession of an inward confession.
Ac 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
Acts 9:18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Sauls eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength
Acts 16:33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard him believed and were baptized.
every time, the moment they were saved they were baptized. THis is the first obedient act that a new beliver does.
It is an outward profession of an inward confession.
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filosofer said:
Ordinance sometimes loses its meaning to the ear of familiarity. It is in fact ordained by Christ Jesus in:
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
Furthermore the scripture I already quoted in 1 Peter 3:21 juxtaposed the outer man with the inner man: "(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)" thus it is an outward expression of an inward transformation (i.e. having a good conscience toward God).
Otherwise are you saying that you can have a good conscience towards God? Because if you are then that was the answer to Jesus' prayer in the Garden Gethsemane. There is in fact another way beside him drinking the cup set before him. And you appear to have found that way. Do tell.
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Stinker
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What does water baptism do?
1. It is a public demonstration that you have been born again of the Holy Spirit. (Jn.3:3-8)
2. It is a public demonstration that you have repented unto the remission of your sins (Mk.1:4) and are from now on believing in Christ (Acts 19:1-5)
3. It is a public demonstration that having entered the spiritual kingdom (Lk.17:20-21), which is the spiritual body (1Cor.12:13), you are now entering the physical body (1Cor.12:27) which is the 'local' church' (1Cor.1:1-2).
4. It is a public demonstration that after being water baptized into the physical local church, that you are a part of the universal physical church, though not a member of any other local body. (1Cor.12:20)
1. It is a public demonstration that you have been born again of the Holy Spirit. (Jn.3:3-8)
2. It is a public demonstration that you have repented unto the remission of your sins (Mk.1:4) and are from now on believing in Christ (Acts 19:1-5)
3. It is a public demonstration that having entered the spiritual kingdom (Lk.17:20-21), which is the spiritual body (1Cor.12:13), you are now entering the physical body (1Cor.12:27) which is the 'local' church' (1Cor.1:1-2).
4. It is a public demonstration that after being water baptized into the physical local church, that you are a part of the universal physical church, though not a member of any other local body. (1Cor.12:20)
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True.
And the only {required} baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit (or put another way having faith / belief in Christ).
Matthew 3:11 As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
John 7:37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If any man is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
And the only {required} baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit (or put another way having faith / belief in Christ).
Matthew 3:11 As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
John 7:37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If any man is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
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Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Conclusions?
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Conclusions?
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Tenorvoice
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Chavez said:
As for water baptism....no it is not neccesary fo Salvation, but it is something that was should strongly obey in doing.
But most people that I know/have met that just came to know the Lord, can not wait to be baptised.
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Chavez
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Tenorvoice said:
Right...obviously as soon as you commit your life to God you're saved..
BUT
it's like anything else like the Sabbath...shouldn't you??
I haven't been baptised yet...and I don't wanna do it just for the sake of it ya know.
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Chavez,
It is not necessary for your salvation. But remember, Jesus himself was baptized though he himself was sinless when the baptism of John was unto repentence so that "all things might be fulfilled."
If Jesus did this, ought we not do the same?
Again, it is a public testimony of an inner transformation. You have become a temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16) through faith in Christ Jesus. Before you were not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Now you are.
If for no other reason, we oght to make public testimonies (verbal and baptismal) to testify to man.
But a very good rule of thumb is, if it is good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
It is not necessary for your salvation. But remember, Jesus himself was baptized though he himself was sinless when the baptism of John was unto repentence so that "all things might be fulfilled."
If Jesus did this, ought we not do the same?
Again, it is a public testimony of an inner transformation. You have become a temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16) through faith in Christ Jesus. Before you were not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Now you are.
If for no other reason, we oght to make public testimonies (verbal and baptismal) to testify to man.
But a very good rule of thumb is, if it is good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
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