baptism question

[Diakoneo]

Matthew 3:16 says "When He had been baptised, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened TO Him, and HE saw the Spirit of God decending like a dove and alighting upon Him."

It mearly says that Jesus was given a vision of a Spiritual matter, which happened to be the spirit of God. The simile was a 'like a dove'. This is similar to when Balaam sees the Angel sent to kill Him, and when Elisha's servant gets shown the legions of angels protecting Him, or of Saul on the road to Damascus. They are shown a SPIRITUAL vision. It never says any where that everyone saw it. It infers that Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, told the author about what He saw.

I'm afraid you have the wrong assumption here. Matthew 3:16 is referring to John the baptist seeing the Holy Spirit, not Jesus. Cross reference this verse with John 1:32-33

John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

So we see here that John (who is speaking here) is actually who saw the spirit descending like a dove as per Matt. 3:16 "He saw the Spirit"...

Sorry but that debunks the whole argument you were trying to make around that verse.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Matthew 3:16 says "When He had been baptised, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened TO Him, and HE saw the Spirit of God decending like a dove and alighting upon Him."

It mearly says that Jesus was given a vision of a Spiritual matter, which happened to be the spirit of God. The simile was a 'like a dove'. This is similar to when Balaam sees the Angel sent to kill Him, and when Elisha's servant gets shown the legions of angels protecting Him, or of Saul on the road to Damascus. They are shown a SPIRITUAL vision. It never says any where that everyone saw it. It infers that Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, told the author about what He saw.

One does not even have to get through your first paragraph to see you did not READ for yourself...

Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
​

It was NOT a spiritual vision, John the Baptist saw it also... AND WHY did he see it you might ask??


To testify that Christ IS the Son of God.

 

[@@Paul@@]

I'm afraid you have the wrong assumption here. Matthew 3:16 is referring to John the baptist seeing the Holy Spirit, not Jesus. Cross reference this verse with John 1:32-33

So we see here that John (who is speaking here) is actually who saw the spirit descending like a dove as per Matt. 3:16 "He saw the Spirit"...

Sorry but that debunks the whole argument you were trying to make around that verse.

Nice job Diakoneo!! Way to "READ before you SAY".

 

[RED that's ME]

This thread is now reopened. Only Baptists/AnaBaptists are allowed to discuss/debate this issue. Other members please follow the rules of the forum.

 

[@@Paul@@]

THANK YOU for clarifing!
I did not mean that they equaled each other.
Paul, I do agree with you and Kayanne, you are also on to something.
Spiritual Circumcision, what being born again really is, does allow people to have an everlasing covenent just like God stated in the verse you posted about the circumcision of the flesh. They are both everlasting (Both c) and any of those who do not have spirtual circumcision (BEING BORN AGAIN) will be cut off from the rest of the believers.
See, this is how cool God is. You see here now how the New Testement fullfills the Old Testement with the circumcisions? That is just so awesome!
This could turn the post around, but right here at this point is the reason why the sciptures are true when it comes to eternal salvation. Atleast to me it is CLEAR as a bell.
GEL

I'm on to something?? I think we do need some tylenol in this thread!! or maybe a thermometer?

I personally do not see how one can view spiritual circumcision (being "born-again") as anything BUT everlasting.