Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Have you read my post(Lambion), we are on the same page. I agree friend. But you must have scripture to why this is. Anyone can have a opinion, but it is the Word he has given that guides us. We can't rely on our own perspectives and thoughts, for we all have sin natures which makes us incapable of knowing whats best for ourselves without a perfect guidence.Aras said:
I agree, a person is not forbidden from Heaven if they are not Baptized. It's just an act of a good and obediant Christian to be Baptized. I have not been Baptized either, but I will be because I feel it's an important as a Christian and Jesus believed it to be important enough to be Baptized himself.lamblion said:
it could be water baptism and if it even was or is it still is not part of th e gospel message or part of salvation. but matt 28 is not about water baptism, nor is it even closly dealing with it nor is the main point of it dealing with water. you take away from it when you focus only on water. LEST THE CROSS CHRIST BE MADE OF NO EFFECT. and by the way was this post to you. you just told me above that they could answer for themselves and turn around and do the same.KEPLER said:
i see again no scripture to back that up. his sacrifice i seen through the passover meal. the blood over the doors in Egypt. ALL references to his sacrifice and our salvation in the Old testement does not include water. BUT BLOOD.
we should cling to the Spirit not fleshly ways. but yes that is true. if that is needed then go ahead.
does not go with our salvation. nor any of the others. read the account of moses and the Exodus. the passover meal and the blood over the doors. all the prophocies. none speak of water even Peter in acts 2:38 read a prophecy and no water but belief only.
i have you have not ever put any of them into context with anything. mark 16:16, NOT water but the Spirit.(read john 3:18-7:39 especially 7:38-39) Acts 2:38. not read correctly(a post on that above. scripture tells us we do not get forgiveness ONLY after water baptism and the Spirit only after water baptism. eph 1:13-14, and no scripture speaks of forgiveness w/ith water but only THROUGH the blood. rom 6:3-5 again not water. but used as a "united or joined" into aspect. as in 1 cor 12:13. Gal 3:25-28 not water read the verses before this 22-25. we are justified BY FAITH. you say water not scripture. and again it says INTO water DOES NOT bring us "into" Christ only the Spirit. Titus 3:5 not water becaue i would think even you would say it would be a righteous act to do and it clearly says righteous acts do not save us. WHY doe sit say that because there is no righteous act BEFORE we are saved. or do you think there is? Eph 5:25 it says washing of water by THE WORD. are you water baptized by the WORD. nope. it is a figurative anology since water is a cleansing agent just as is the Spirit. read 1 Peter 1 it says santification of the Spirit. hebrews 10:22-23 read 9:12-22 and TELL ME YOU STILL BELIEVE ALL THIS ABOUT WATER BAPTISM. it CLEARLY says it is the BLOOD through the SPIRIT that cleanses our CONSCIENCE. and 1 Peter 3:20. if you say Gods work is the Spirit then his FLOOD or water was his work not noahs. and this WATER now SYMPOLISES what NOW saves us. THE SPIRIT BAPTISM. notice the word conscience and what heb 9:12-22 says.
i am not wrong. and you are not completly wrong either. and no i think nicodemus would be the closests one to an idiot. as Jesus said he was a student of the Law and didnt understand about the SPirit. But alas we still try to remove it and replace it with material human traditions and ordancers and sacraments. why not just LIVE through the SPIRIT. and why not read the REST of the passage. verse 8 " SO is everyone who is BORN OF THE SPIRIT" are you saying he was dumb enough to have already forgot about the water baptism part. dont think so. he did say born AGAIN. so he is refering to TWO births so why is it stupid to mention both SEEING how nicodemus didnt get it and ONLY thought about the NATURAL birth. the FLESH GIVES BIRTH TO THE FLESH part.If your imterpretation of John 3:5 is correct, then Our Lord was an idiot. "You must first be born to go to heaven" ... Well, DUH!!!
Thankfully, you are wrong.
I really wish we could have skipped the 19th century and all the heresies it spawned.
lamblion said:
read eph 1"13-14. it speaks of this PROMISE. read heb 9:14-15 the new birth is by the SPirit john 3:5,8, SO it is with those BORN OF THE SPIRIT. when he says born agian it also means born from above. 1 cor 12:13 CLEARLY says we join the CHURCH Or BOdy through the BAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT. as for the circumcision read col 2:13, 3:10-11. eph 4:22-24 rom 13:14 and most of all rom 2:29 " No a man is a jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, BY THE SPIRIT, NOT by written code." So it was then so it is now. all anoput the heart. there is NOTHING holy about water baptism.pjw said:
Schroeder said:
well why do you not give a scripture reference. you are joined to his death by the Spirit. read roms 8. verse 10 " But if Christ is in you, your body is DEAD because of sin, YET your SPirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the SPirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal body THORUGH his Spirit, who lives in you." so the KEY is how do you receive the SPirit. eph 1:13-14 says having BELEIVED you receive the Spirit. And we are already dead, that is why we must be born again. so water baptism unto death is not needed if we are already dead. we need the Spirit in us to be alive. our bodies are still dead but the SPirit of Christ in us is alive. That is why we MUST live through the SPirit and not the flesh. Christ work was done. we are joined to it in a since not to die becuase we are already dead but to be born again as he was through the SPirit. he died to congure sin and death when he rose again. God will see our Spirit, which is Christ, and not our flesh, that is why we are justified by God, becuae he sees the work of Christ and not our flesh. So water baptism has nothing to do with it.TruthMiner said:
Schroeder said:
still dont i see. it would help the discussion if i knew what scripture you get this idea from.TruthMiner said:
the body is your flesh. the flesh is your sinfull nature. NO scripture says in water baptism you die to the flesh. rom 8:13. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit uyou put to death the misdeeds of the BODY, you will live,. Rom 8:10-11 But if Christ is in you, your BODY is dead because of sin, YET your Spirit is ALIVE because of righteousness. AND IF THE SPIRIT OF HIM WHO RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD IS IN UYOU, HE WHO RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD WILL ALSO GIVE LIFE TO YOUR MORTAL BODIES THROUGH HIS SPIRIT, WHO LIVES IN YOU. i see your body dead in sin with christ and without him BUT the SPirit in you(christ) is alive, THAT is our new birth or our NEW self. Rom 8 makes it clear the Spirit gives us life. we are dead to sin no matter what. that is why it is SOOOO important to live in the Spirit because that is the only thing that is ALIVE in us. rom 8:10 does not say our body dies it say it is dead because of sin BUT if the Spirit is in you it is ALIVE and that is what we live through.
again rom 8:10 says in sin we are dead. read rom 7:24-25 What a wretched man I am. Who will rescue me from this BODY OF DEATH? Thanks be to God- through Jesus Christ our Lord! uyour problem is thinking the use of the baptism ONLY refers to water baptism when that is not the case. AT ALL. John the baptist said it clear that Christ would baptize us by the Spirit. So it only makes since that that is the use of the word baptism after his ressurection since he did nnot do it before that. How does he do it now. you say water baptism which is our work which isnt GRACE. you twist it around saying it is the Spirit in us but yet you say that the Spirit comes after water baptism. scripture says we can not be obediant in sin and that we can not please God in the sinfull nature. there is no way we can be obediant without the Spirit in us no way we can get it unless we truelly believe. that is what GRACE is.Christ did the ONE ACT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND ONE ACT OF OBEDIANCE FOR US. rom 5:18-19. NOTICE in ROm 6:3 it does NOT say or dont you know all those who were baptized IN THE NAME OF CHRIST were baptized into his death. it says baptized INTO his death. as in joined with his sacrifice. When we are SPirit baptized by Christ his spirit lives in us we are born again. God raised him from death through the Spirit and since it is in you now it will raise you up to life.(the rebirth) which is what verse 4 speaks of. and that is why eph 4 says ONE baptism. It does not say ONE in TWO forms or Two in ONE form or how ever you want to twist it into saying. it says ONE baptism. this ONE is the same as spoke in 1 cor 12:13. all this happens in ONE step not two or three or how ever many. it is instantaneous upon true BELIEF of your heart. just as acts 15:8 says and eph 1:13-14 says.
i did above. Rom 6 shows we are united with him in christ Spirit baptism. John the baptist said we would be baptized by Christ with the Spirit. eph 4 says there is only one. eph 1:13-14 says we receive it when we BELIEVE. it doesnt add anythoing or mention anything like water or works. AND works is doing something to RECEIVE something. no matter HOW you want to twist it. if you say it is the Spirit doing the baptism doesnt help. because it still means if you dont do water baptism you wont get the rest. Show me scripture you think speaks of this water baptism rite or work of ours which unites us to Christ. i am sure it will be rom 6 even though it does not speak of water at all. All you have to do is read the passages before and after rom 6 to see he is speaking about the SPIRIT and its baptism. or llike CHrist used it in speaking of going too be sacrifice on the cross in luke and or when he speaks to james and his brother about them truelly going to be baptized with the baptism he will be baptized by. as in his death byh the cros, as would the apostles would later be killed.
