Baptism of the Holy Spirit

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Grace_Alone4gives

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What does the baptism of the holy Spirit mean to you?

What I mean is...do you believe you are baptised by the Holy Spirit the minute you are saved, is it an overwhelming feeling that controls you, do different people experience it in different ways? Do you have to feel 'shaken' and 'drunk' ?":

I am asking as I see a contrast among believers about what exactly the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit' is.

TIA

HTD
 

Andrew

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The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the experience described in Acts 2, and similar experiences described in Acts eg Cornelius.

You may experience it in 3D style or 1D style, as with being born again. But feelings and manifestations are not important -- Acts does not record feelings in each account of the Spirit baptism. And the only manifestation it records is tongues:p , except for Acts 2 where tongues of fire and rushing wind are described too.
 
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Andrew

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So, does one always 'know' when they have been baptised with the Holy Spirit? Must someone ALWAYS speak in tongues and have a sensation?

Depends on what you believe. The charismatics will tell you that one "knows" that he has been Spirit-baptised when he is able to speak in tongues, sensation or no sensation. I believe in this position becos it is closest to Biblical accounts of Spirit baptism (Acts).
 
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Reformationist

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HopeTheyDance said:
So, does one always 'know' when they have been baptised with the Holy Spirit?

Very few people probably know when God regenerated them. We have a tendency to look to our own works of obedience as the "starting point" for when we were saved. I would say that one of the most concrete ways to tell if we are a child of God is to ask ourselves if we truly have a desire to obey God because we love Him and we love His graceful Law.

Must someone ALWAYS speak in tongues and have a sensation?

Absolutely not.

God bless
 
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Knight

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Baptism of the Spirit happens at our conversion. This is the process where by our sins are washed away through the blood of Christ and we are reborn into new creations.

Baptism of the Spirit always preceeds water baptism.

That's the short answer. It can get much longer.
 
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fakemind

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simple answer is that you get the Holy Spirit at the point you got saved. every Christian has the Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:15 (nkjv)
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

the Holy Spirit is not a new "force" Christians get, its God Himself. the Holy Spirit empowered people in Old Testament times:

2 Peter 1:21 (nkjv)
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

since Jesus's time however the Holy Spirit doesnt just come and go with somebody who puts their faith in God, He stays with them.

1 Corinthians 12:3 (nkjv)
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (nkjv)
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


some believe in a post-salvation experience called "baptism of the Holy Spirit". some say when you receive it you will then speak in tongues. however, God assigns the gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His will, and not ours. and not everybody needs to have the gift of tongues.

Hebrews 2:4 (nkjv)
God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

1 Cor 12:11 (nkjv)
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (nkjv)
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

i personally believe in no post-salvation "baptism of the Holy Spirit". i believe every Christian receives the Holy Spirit, which is God and not a force, and every Christian receives at least one gift, which doesnt have to be tongues.


anyway, just my 2 cents. :)
 
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Bekah Ferguson

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I indeed baptize you with
water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me
is mightier than I,
whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost,
and with fire!
Matthew 3:11

"He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire." An action? Well, it's obviously an experience, but what about a sign? What about proof that it actually happened or that it is actually occuring? How do you know if you have been filled by the Holy Spirit? Are you filled with God's Holy Spirit the moment that you first *believe*? "Baptize" and "Believe" - these are both verbs, action words. These are events, if you will, that do not take place unnoticed or unconsciously.

I have spent many hours over the past year studying this very topic. This article I have written deals with the results and discoveries from my studies and from my own personal walk with God. I admit that I was quite surprised with my findings as they were not what I had initially expected. I thank the Lord for the revelations that He has given me through His Holy Spirit.

* * *

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
-I Corinthians 12:1
What can we denote from these words spoken from the mouth of the apostle Paul? "I would not have you ignorant." I truly believe that the topic of spiritual gifts is of vital, yes - vital importance. We should never just assume when it comes to Biblical teachings, especially if there is controversy amongst denominations. As individuals living for Christ, we must know the Scriptures for ourselves. We must search out the Scriptures for ourselves in order to make sure that what we are being taught is actually what Jesus taught. We need to start setting aside some of our ingrained opinions to really take a look at what God really has to say. We need to stop believing only what we want to believe and we need to stop hearing only what we want to hear.

The subject of speaking in tongues has been much debated. One church teaches that it no longer applies while the other teaches that it is the initial evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Both, in essence, are opinions. What we need to know is this: which teaching is based upon a proper Biblical foundation?

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place . . . And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
-Acts 2:1, 4

In the New Testament, Acts chapter two, ten and nineteen clearly show that speaking in tongues was the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. Check this out:



Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay my hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
-Acts 8:14-19

Simon the Sorcerer would not have made such a request unless he had witnessed something powerful at the moment the men had received the Holy Spirit. He saw them speaking in other tongues because otherwise, how would he know that the men had been filled?



While Peter yet spoke these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all of them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as come with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
-Acts 10:44-4

And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
-Acts 19:1-6

Clearly, if you study the book of Acts and I have laid out several Scripture passages, you will see that the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit was speaking in tongues. It is at this point that the misconceptions begin. It has been taught that the gift of tongues was given on the Day of Pentecost so that men of different nationalities and languages could understand the gospel being preached. That seems to make sense but guess what!? It is not backed by Scripture. The truth?



But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.
-Acts 2:14-16

After Peter had finished preaching in his own tongue, three thousand people understood and did as he said and were baptized in Jesus' name. (Acts 2:38-41) Where the idea came that Peter preached in tongues, I do not know as I cannot find a single verse to back this notion. This teaching about tongues is widely accepted but as you can see here, it has no scriptural foundation. This is just one of many clear indications that speaking in tongues was not just for the day of Pentecost or for the early church only. As the Apostle Paul said:



I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all. Yet in the church, I had rather speak five words with my understanding that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
-1 Corinthians 14:18-19

Peter did not preach in unknown tongues that day, he used his own language.

Speaking in tongues was for some other purpose and based on the Scriptural teachings throughout the entire New Testament, there is no reason to believe that speaking in tongues was only supposed to be for the first church. But, you say, in 1 Corinthians 13:8, Paul says that "Whether there be tongues, they shall cease". From this verse alone it is taught that tongues no longer apply today! How sad to believe this teaching when if you were to just read the next few verses, you would see a serious error in this teaching: "These shall pass away only when that which is perfect is come." (1 Corinthians 13:10) "That which is perfect" is Christ. He has not yet returned so therefore, based on this Scripture passage, speaking in tongues should not yet have ceased! If Paul had literally meant that tongues would cease after a short while, then why did he devote the entire next chapter to teaching exclusively about speaking in tongues?



Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
-Acts 2:38-39

If the Bible teaches that the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit, of being filled with the Holy Spirit, is speaking in tongues, and since it doesn't at any time teach otherwise or state that this would no longer apply today, then why do so many churches teach that you are filled with the Holy Spirit at the first moment in which you "believe"? This teaching also is without Scriptural foundation. In fact, the Scriptures teach quite the contrary. Here is one example:



There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
-Acts 10:1-2

This man was a definite "believer". However, though he was a "devout man and one that feared God", he did not yet know about the Holy Spirit. Cornelius is a prime example because many people today, initially come to Christ before learning of the Holy Ghost! It is usually not until afterwards that they are taught about Holy Ghost. So, if you come to know Jesus Christ but do not come to an understanding of who the Holy Spirit is until later, as many do, at what point then are you filled? Cornelius was a believer and since this was after the day of Pentecost in which the Holy Spirit had been poured out, would he not therefore have already been filled with the Holy Spirit if the teaching is true that you are filled when you first believe? And the question also begs to be asked: why would God fill you with His Holy Spirit and then not let you know that you've been filled?



Like Salvation, are you immediately *saved* the moment that you come to an "understanding" of Salvation? No, you must go through the steps, or the actions, if you will, that bring you to that place of Salvation. i.e. acknowledgement of Christ's gift and sacrifice, repentance, etc. So, why would you be immediately *filled* with the Holy Spirit the moment that you come to an "understanding" of Him?

After receiving a vision from God, Cornelius went to see Peter and told him of his vision. Peter spoke to Cornelius and his family of all that had taken place.



While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
-Acts 10:44-46

How can anyone possibly teach that you are instantly filled with the Holy Ghost at the moment in which you first believe? The Scriptures don't support this! If Cornelius was not automatically filled, then when did Christians supposedly start becoming automatically filled?! This false teaching has deceived so many Christians and as a result, many have been robbed of an incredibly fulfilling relationship with God because they inaptly believe that they are already filled with the Holy Spirit! We cannot deny the Scriptures!
 
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Bekah Ferguson

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Many people who reject the teachings on the baptism of the Holy Ghost use one, single, solitary, verse as their evidence that we are filled instantaneously when we first believe. That verse is found in Ephesians:



. . . having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit.
-Ephesians 1:13b

There are several main problems with this verse being used to support their doctrine. For one thing, it is taken out of context. Without the relation that comes from careful study, this verse could appear to be quite contradictory to the teachings in the book of Acts. They think that because in Ephesians it appears to say that you receive the Holy Spirit when you first believe without any reference to speaking in tongues, that this must mean that the Acts depiction of speaking in tongues no longer applies today. Do you see the obvious folly in this scenario? These words in Ephesians 1:13b were spoken by Paul to one of the early churches in Ephesus and when taken in context and based on the passage found in Acts 19:1-6, we know that these were born-again Christians he was speaking to whom he had already witnessed speaking in tongues when they were initially filled with the Holy Spirit! Such a misinterpretation of Scripture is nothing more than adding to and taking away from the Scriptures. What does the Lord have to say concerning such practices?



For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life.
-Revelations 22:18-19

Let's take a look at that verse from Ephesians one more time:



. . . having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit.
-Ephesians 1:13b

That scripture is taken from the New International Version translation that happens to be one of the most popular translations. However, here is the exact same verse taken from a much older and much more accurate translation of the Bible, the King James Version:



. . . in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.
-Ephesians 1:13b
With the Scripture taken from a proper translation and in context, it is no longer contradictory to the book of Acts. In fact, as you can see quite clearly, it coincides perfectly and in no way whatsoever, does it deny that a believer will speak in tongues upon the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost today!



* * *


As a Christian (being interpreted as a "follower of Christ") we can be moved and guided by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit can also speak to us. How else would we come to know Him if He did not first draw us by His Holy Spirit? But, this should not be mistaken with being filled with the Holy Spirit! When Peter went to Ceasarea, for instance, he knew that the Gentiles had been filled with the Holy Ghost, not because he saw, say, the "fruits of the Spirit" manifested in them, and not because he knew that they were believers, but because he heard them speaking in tongues! (Acts 10:46)

Speaking in tongues is not something that should ever be forced, faked or manipulated. Years and years have passed since the day of Pentecost, and sadly, many mistakes have been made in conjunction with the teachings concerning speaking in tongues and also the practice of speaking in tongues. Many sincere individuals and groups have made the mistake of taking this gift and turning it into a fleshly ritual. This, consequently, caused their experiences to become based upon a self-induced physicality rather than true Spirit-led conduct. These mistakes in the church have had devastating effects upon doctrine. Witnessing phoney experiences creates doubt and it quickly spreads. Once doubt spreads, the Holy Spirit can no longer move. He has no choice but to remain stagnant as long as the people continue to refuse Him. How do I know that God cannot move in an environment of doubt? Well, it all has to do with faith! An example of this is found in the gospel of Mark. Jesus had journeyed to a place where the people did not accept him. The Scripture reads:


And He could there do no mighty work . . . and he marvelled because of their unbelief.
-Mark 6:5a,6a

God refuses to move in such an environment of disbelief, and because of this, people use this as their proof that speaking in tongues is no longer for today! I, myself, used to say this! "If speaking in tongues is still for today, than how come I have never spoken in tongues?" Well, at the time that I made that comment, I didn't believe in speaking in tongues! As if God would fill me when my heart was so full of doubt. What went wrong?

Christians stopped following a proper Biblical format for the receiving and infilling of the Holy Ghost and took matters into their own hands. The end result caused a major reduction in our understanding of the importance and significance of a believer being filled.



"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?"
-Galatians 3:3-4

Therefore, many well-meaning Christians who do not have a proper understanding of the Scriptures concerning this matter have ended up turning the experience into something counterfeit without purposefully intending to. Their mistakes however, should not scare us away from Biblical truth!

Other misconceptions arise from mistaking the gift of tongues, which is a spiritual gift, with speaking in tongues, the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit. There are several regulations pertaining to the gift of tongues that do not apply to the evidential speaking in tongues. With the infilling of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues can be simultaneous and without interpretation, whereas the gift of tongues is to be ministered one at a time and with an interpreter. (1 Corinthians 14) Do not confuse these two.


* * *

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father
give the Holy Spiritto them that ask him?
-John 13:11

If you are instantly filled with the Holy Spirit at the moment in which you first *believe*, than why did Jesus say that the Holy Spirit is gift that He would give to "them that ask him"? We mustn't continue to falsely assume that because we have given our lives to the Lord and made the decision to follow Him that we have already been unconsciously filled with His Holy Spirit at the same time. The Scriptures have never taught this! This is why the Scriptures warn:



Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
-Colossians 2:8

In conclusion, the Bible teaches that the infilling of the Holy Spirit is a gift, (Acts 2:38, John 13:11) and that it is a gift that must be requested, (John 13:11) that it is for everyone until Christ returns, (Acts 2:39; I Cor. 13:10) and that the evidence of being initially filled with the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues! (Isaiah 28:11-12; Mark 16:17; Acts 2:4; 10:44-46; 19:6; Romans 8:15-16; Galatians 4:6)

Take the time to examine your own personal walk with God. Ask Him about any doubts or questions that you may have. Study the Scriptures prayerfully and with an open mind and see what the Lord has to show you.



If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God,
that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not;
and it shall be given him.
-James 1:5

Do not be afraid to do this. God loves you and if you are honestly seeking Him, He will not allow you to be led astray. He will show you the truth! It is my prayer that you will take the time to examine the Scriptures for yourself and that you will obey the Scriptures despite what popular opinon may be. The Christian walk is along a narrow path and we must never forget this. Always remember that if the Bible teaches it and commands it, as a true follower of Christ, you must obey His teachings.
 
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Hi,

simple answer is that you get the Holy Spirit at the point you got saved. every Christian has the Holy Spirit.

I totally agree with Fakemind. This is also clear in Romans 8:

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. {by: or, because of}
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Therefore it is impossible to be a christian without the Holy Spirit.

God bless!
 
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Andrew

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simple answer is that you get the Holy Spirit at the point you got saved. every Christian has the Holy Spirit.

Yet, that is not the pattern at all in Acts. In fact, even the Apostles had to come down and lay hands before the Spirit was received by believers. Now, if it is automatic at the point of salvation, then why the need for the Apostles to come and lay hands? :confused:

Here's a case in point:

Acts 8:
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.


These people believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ and were even water baptised into the name of the Lord! Now dont tell me they arent believers.

Yet, they did not automatically receive the Holy Spirit for:

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:


Why the need for Peter and John to come all the way down to pray and lay hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost if it was automatic at the pt of salvation? :scratch:

Here's another example:

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

They were even baptised into the name of the Lord Jesus first, b4 Paul laid hands on them and the received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.
 
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PastorJoe

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fakemind said:
simple answer is that you get the Holy Spirit at the point you got saved. every Christian has the Holy Spirit.
I have studied this topic for years and have seen it all when it comes to the vaiety of views. However, I like your post and agree. Some folks seem to think that this is a matter of opinion, but in reality BHS is a promise of God to all those who believe in Jesus as Lord and is given as our seal of redemption.
 
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Fiskare

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Andrew said:
Not according to Acts for the reasons I stated.
To try to build the doctrine of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit fully from Acts is not wise. Acts is a description of events, not a prescription for doctrine, although it touches on doctrinal matters.

The outpouring of the Spirit described in the early chapters of Acts have one thing in common- they occur only in the presence of the Apostles and this manifests itself as the Apostles minister to the various ethnic groups, each ethnic group having its own pentecost. Previous to this age, God did not pour out His Spirit on gentiles or Samaritans, and the pentecosts of those two groups, demonstrating God's acceptance of them into His Body, is the message of Acts. Acts 2 shows God accepting repentant Jews. Acts 8 shows God accepting Samaritans, and Acts 10 shows Him accepting Gentiles, both in themselves remarkable new beginning events in salvation history.

There is only one baptism spoken of in Scripture after these events- in the epistles that are meant to teach us doctrine, that of the batpism of water and Spirit. (John 3)

Yes, the Spirit works in mysterious ways, and even Faith is an activity of the Spirit, a baptism if you like, because what one recieves at the Baptism of the Spirit is not the gifts, but the Spirit Himself, and He will give you gifts, according to His will. Thus, when those of old believed before their pentecosts, they had received the gift of Faith, therefore the Spirit had worked among them, but the Spirit had not worked His special pentecost on them, which meant receiving the Holy Spirit in a new power. However, now, after our pentecost has arrived, we recieve the Spirit by the means God has ordained, in the water with the Word (Eph 5:26, Titus 3:5- check the Greek). Yes, He works upon us before, after, and during baptism, He calls us, brings us to faith, and sanctifies us, but the Bible teaches His regular means of regeneration is Holy Baptism.

Holy Baptism

Is baptism our work or God's?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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People confuse the two (S)pirits.
  • One is the spirit of Christ which you receive when you are born again. This is not the Holy Spirit.
  • The other is the Holy Spirit, which is the comforter who is called along side to help us. This is not the spirit of Christ.
 
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PastorJoe

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didaskalos said:
People confuse the two (S)pirits.
  • One is the spirit of Christ which you receive when you are born again. This is not the Holy Spirit.
  • The other is the Holy Spirit, which is the comforter who is called along side to help us. This is not the spirit of Christ.
didaskalos, you made this same statement in another line of conversation (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1152635#post1152635) and maybe it is easier to answer this all in one place, but how many members of the Trinity do you suppose there are? So far it seems you are up to four?
 
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