Baptism is a work.

[Strong in Him]

Yes, He was talking to Nicodemus. That is why the word “Thee” is in the text, too. But when Jesus said, “Ye must be born again” He was saying “Y’all must be born again” referring to Nicodemus and the other Jews and even us today (Who would be reading this text in our Bibles).

It's a fact that the word YE is the plural form of you (similar to saying, "Y'all" like in the South).
Just search the internet and this will prove it to be true. Most Modern Bibles do not make this plural pronoun distinction, unlike the King James Bible. It is very valuable to know even if one does not believe the KJV is anything special. The plural pronouns are reflected in the Greek.

I said that Jesus' words are applicable to all his disciples, so I'm not quite sure why you wrote this.

We do not say "y'all" in the UK - though I daresay it's only a matter of time.

 

[Strong in Him]

Luke 12:32-33 has nothing to do with the rich young ruler.

No idea why people always linked those 2 together.

My mistake. I wasn't linking the 2 together; I was thinking of the wrong passage.

Jesus says in verse 33, "sell your possessions and give to the poor." He does not say "sell all your possessions so that you have nothing left".
Many of us already give to the poor. If we were to give everything, we, ourselves, would need to rely on charities and other people for support.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

If we were to give everything, we, ourselves, would need to rely on charities and other people for support.

Some have done exactly this, they live on the charity and good will of others, and others are willing for them to do so and give generously.

 

[Strong in Him]

Some have done exactly this, they live on the charity and good will of others, and others are willing for them to do so and give generously.

Good for them.
It's a calling/conviction, though, rather than being compulsory.

 

[Guojing]

My mistake. I wasn't linking the 2 together; I was thinking of the wrong passage.

Jesus says in verse 33, "sell your possessions and give to the poor." He does not say "sell all your possessions so that you have nothing left".
Many of us already give to the poor. If we were to give everything, we, ourselves, would need to rely on charities and other people for support.

Perhaps an easier explanation is that Luke 12:32-33 was never meant as instructions to us today.

It is written to the little flock who is expecting the Tribulation, or Daniel's 70th week to come very soon.

When you have no money nor possessions, there is less temptation to take the mark of the beast.

Only after Christ return during the end of the 70th week, then the kingdom will given to the little flock. (1 Peter 1:7-9)

 

[Guojing]

So you don’t think Gentiles were not saved in the Old Testament?
What about the story of Jonah?
What about Rahab?
Did Jesus not help the Canaanite woman because of her great faith?
Or did Jesus still refuse to help her (despite her faith) because she was a dog?

Also, your point here really does not address the Bible that existed for hundreds of years long before Westcott and Hort showed up.
The word "Ye" is a plural in the King James Bible and it reflects that in the Greek. It is a fact. Just search at Perplexity.ai, Google, or Chat.openai.com and get back to me.

Gentiles then were saved thru the nation of Israel.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I said that Jesus' words are applicable to all his disciples, so I'm not quite sure why you wrote this.

We do not say "y'all" in the UK - though I daresay it's only a matter of time.

I am merely trying to point out that Ye is the plural form of you (that refers to two or more people).
This truth is hidden from you in most Modern Bibles.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Gentiles then were saved thru the nation of Israel.

In the story of Jonah, there is no indication that they became Jews. Jonah did not even want to have anything to do with the Ninevites. There is also the order of Melchizedek, as well.

 

[Strong in Him]

I am merely trying to point out that Ye is the plural form of you (that refers to two or more people).
This truth is hidden from you in most Modern Bibles.

"You" can refer to one person, or several.
"You can't do that"- two people talking.
"You aren't allowed to write in this forum" - meaning people in general (or with a certain belief).

"You" is often used where we might mean "people". I have seen this phrase used and clarified with "not you, personally."

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

"You" can refer to one person, or several.
"You can't do that"- two people talking.
"You aren't allowed to write in this forum" - meaning people in general (or with a certain belief).

"You" is often used where we might mean "people". I have seen this phrase used and clarified with "not you, personally."

In the 1984 and earlier editions of THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES "YOU" signified plural.

 

[Strong in Him]

In the 1984 and earlier editions of THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES "YOU" signified plural.

So?
I don't read the New World Translation.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

So?
I don't read the New World Translation.

So, one can distinguish between you and YOU as singular and plural.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"You" can refer to one person, or several.
"You can't do that"- two people talking.
"You aren't allowed to write in this forum" - meaning people in general (or with a certain belief).

"You" is often used where we might mean "people". I have seen this phrase used and clarified with "not you, personally."

In Modern English, it is more common that the word “you” is referring to one person. In the King James Bible, the Y words like Ye, You, Yours is a reference to two or more people. This distinction is not found in Modern Bibles. This is just a basic fact that you don’t appear to understand.

 

[Guojing]

In the story of Jonah, there is no indication that they became Jews. Jonah did not even want to have anything to do with the Ninevites. There is also the order of Melchizedek, as well.

Jesus himself said John 4:22, a clear statement.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus himself said John 4:22, a clear statement.

Yes, I am aware of what Jesus said, but this would set up a contradiction in the Bible if you are to buy into “Jesus said it and that’s final.” In other words, we must accept that sometimes there is a rule of exception.

Why? Well, if we are to take Jesus’ words here with no exceptions there would be no Melchizedek order and no story of Jonah.

Also, consider that the Canaanite woman would have went home if she took Jesus’ words as the final say on the matter involving the Jews and the Gentiles. But she persisted despite that fact and Jesus complimented on her faith. She found a rule of exception. What would you do if you were in her shoes? Would you just say to yourself, “Okay, that’s it, I am going home.” “The Lord said it, and that’s final.”

 

[Guojing]

Yes, I am aware of what He said, but this would set up a contradiction in the Bible if you are to buy into extreme wooden literalism.

In other words, if what you say is true there would be no Melchizedek order;
There would be no story of Jonah.

There is no contradiction.

Before Paul, Gentiles who blessed Israel will be blessed by Israel's God, that has always been the case after the nation was formed, as promised to Jacob in Genesis 28:13-15.

The counterexample was seen in Deuteronomy 23:3-4.

If I am an unbelieving gentile living after the book of Exodus, I will need to go thru Israel, bless them, in order to be saved.

Likewise, in the future, when the Tribulation begins, I will be doing the same.

Also, consider that the Canaanite woman would have went home if she took Jesus’ words as the final say on the matter involving the Jews and the Gentiles. But she persisted despite that fact and Jesus complimented on her faith.

As for the 2 gentile exceptions in Jesus first coming:

The Roman Centurion build Israel a synagogue, and the leaders appealed to Jesus for him (Luke 7:5).

As for the Canaanite lady, she acknowledged herself as a gentile puppy who could be blessed with the overflow blessings that the children of Israel were having in Jesus's first coming to them. (Mark 7:29).

Both cases, Israel was honored, and Jesus could therefore bless them because they blessed Israel.

 

[Strong in Him]

In Modern English, it is more common that the word “you” is referring to one person. In the King James Bible, the Y words like Ye, You, Yours is a reference to two or more people. This distinction is not found in Modern Bibles. This is just a basic fact that you don’t appear to understand.

What I don't understand is why my statement that Jesus' words to Nicodemus apply to all his disciples has led to a grammar lesson about the use of the word "you."
If you're trying to say that the word "ye", written in your beloved and perfect KJV, is plural and Jesus is talking to all his followers - that's what I said.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is no contradiction.

Before Paul, Gentiles who blessed Israel will be blessed by Israel's God, that has always been the case after the nation was formed, as promised to Jacob in Genesis 28:13-15.

The counterexample was seen in Deuteronomy 23:3-4.

If I am an unbelieving gentile living after the book of Exodus, I will need to go thru Israel, bless them, in order to be saved.

Likewise, in the future, when the Tribulation begins, I will be doing the same.

Again, you're not getting it. Melchizedek was not within any kind of Jewish line, but he was a part of Gentile line of high priests and kings. They offered a way of salvation by the one true God. Jesus is after the order of Melchizedek. Also, in the story of Jonah, more than 120,000 repented in Nineveh. There was no group of Israelites nearby waiting to bring them into the fold of Judaism. Nothing is ever said of any later meet-up with the Jews. Jonah 4 ends with God trying to convince Jonah that His decision to spare the Ninevites was good. We learn nothing of Jonah's final thoughts afterward and or if he was convinced. The point here is that they were saved and nothing is said of them being converted to Judaism. Yes, God used a Jew, to preach his message, but nothing is said of them converting to Judaism. So when Jesus says salvation is of the Jews, that is true, but that is not always the rule. God can still work in men's lives without the Jews. Also, the descendants of all Jews is that they were once Gentiles. The Jews did not exist until Abraham (Seeing he was the first Hebrew).

As for the 2 gentile exceptions in Jesus first coming:

The Roman Centurion build Israel a synagogue, and the leaders appealed to Jesus for him (Luke 7:5).

As for the Canaanite lady, she acknowledged herself as a gentile puppy who could be blessed with the overflow blessings that the children of Israel were having in Jesus's first coming to them. (Mark 7:29).

Both cases, Israel was honored, and Jesus could therefore bless them because they blessed Israel.

Okay, first, she did not acknowledge she was a puppy but a dog. Second, the point you're missing in the Canaanite story is if you were in her place, you would have gone home because you would have seen Jesus' words as absolute and with no "rule of exception." Even before Abraham (the father of the Hebrews), men were saved by not being Jewish.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What I don't understand is why my statement that Jesus' words to Nicodemus apply to all his disciples has led to a grammar lesson about the use of the word "you."
If you're trying to say that the word "ye", written in your beloved and perfect KJV, is plural and Jesus is talking to all his followers - that's what I said.

I am glad we agree. I am merely pointing out that the KJV can be helpful to find this plural pronoun distinctions for you in your future studies even if you do not like the KJV or do not regard it as perfect. In short, it gives you an advantage in this particular area.

 

[Guojing]

Okay, first, she did not acknowledge she was a puppy but a dog. Second, the point you're missing in the Canaanite story is if you were in her place, you would have gone home because you would have seen Jesus' words as absolute and with no "rule of exception." Even before Abraham (the father of the Hebrews), men were saved by not being Jewish.

The Canaanite woman was not looking to be saved, she was looking to get a healing blessing from Jesus for her daughter.

She got it thru blessing Israel, that was my point.