Baptism=Christian?

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Hi. I'm an IFB. And I have a bit of a problem with saying that I believe that baptism is for remission of sins to be considered a Christian.

There is a thread in "Forum Suggestions" questioning this sites standard about the Nicene Creed's statement about Baptism being for remission of sins, part of what a person must agree to, to call themselves a Christian or post in the Christian Only forums.

My church believes in the Bible as our sole (soul) athority. Is the Nicene Creed even in the Bible? If it is, would someone give me the book, chapter and verse? Because I seem to have missed it.

Do all of the rest of you believe that baptism is for remission of sins? Or do you like I do, believe that baptism is a public profession of faith. And that it's actually the salvation that saves us?

Isn't saying that we agree that this is what makes us Christian going against our beliefs? Or is this just my church's doctrine?

I really want to understand. What do your Baptist churches believe about Baptism? Does Being baptised = Being Christian?

 

[AJ]

Greetings,

While our church does practice baptism and require it of members... It is clearly not required for salvation. If it were, then the thief on the cross beside Christ would not have been saved.

Luke 39-43
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!”


40But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don't you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[f]” 43Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Here is what I found about the Nicene Creed:

The Nicene Creed

As approved in amplified form at the Council of Constantinople (381), it is the profession of the Christian Faith common to the Catholic Church, to all the Eastern Churches separated from Rome, and to most of the Protestant denominations. Soon after the Council of Nicaea new formulas of faith were composed, most of them variations of the Nicene Symbol, to meet new phases of Arianism. There were at least four before the Council of Sardica in 341, and in that council a new form was presented and inserted in the Acts, though not accepted by the council. The Nicene Symbol, however, continued to be the only one in use among the defenders of the Faith. Gradually it came to be recognized as the proper profession of faith for candidates for baptism.... (Continued @ http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11049a.htm )

I believe that baptism is an outward sign and act to show your commitment to Christ... You are saved the moment you accept Christ into your heart... And at that point you are Christian, in my opinion.

AJ

 

[Gold Dragon]

Fortunately, the Nicene Creed does not make a distinction between water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit which Baptists and others on this forum probably wouldn't have a problem with identifying with the remission of their sins.

 

[caitlincares]

6.3 The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references as it is based on the Bible)


We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

*The word "catholic" refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[caitlincares]

Wesley John and now Erwin have repsonded in the other forum

Different Rule 6 question:Baptism for remission of sins?

4. You are not interpreting the wording of the Nicene Creed correctly. I suggest you do some research into what that line means. It is not referring to the physical act of being baptised in water - considering that I personally do not believe that this is necessary for salvation since it is a "works", why would I exclude myself as a non-denominational Christian? However, baptism by water is important and is a public confession of one's faith.

 

[Ave Maria]

Is it possible that our modern English translation of the Nicene Creed is slightly mistranslated and so it appears to be saying baptism for the remission of sins when the original actually does not?

I have always viewed baptism as an outward symbol of an inward faith.

 

[fluffy_rainbow]

I agree with Holly.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Is it possible that our modern English translation of the Nicene Creed is slightly mistranslated and so it appears to be saying baptism for the remission of sins when the original actually does not?

I have always viewed baptism as an outward symbol of an inward faith.

The difficulty is not in our translations of the Nicene Creed but in our assumption that baptism is about water baptism. The passage in Ephesians 4 is about the spiritual unity of believers and the one baptism can be interpreted as being about baptism of the Holy Spirit and not water baptism. Baptists and others on this forum shouldn't have a problem with identifying baptism of the Holy Spirit with the remission of sins.

Our Catholic and Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters would probably interpret this verse as being more about water baptism. Either way, be both acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins.

NASB : Ephesians 4:1-6

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[Ave Maria]

The difficulty is not in our translations of the Nicene Creed but in our assumption that baptism is about water baptism. The passage in Ephesians 4 is about the spiritual unity of believers and the one baptism can be interpreted as being about baptism of the Holy Spirit and not water baptism. Baptists and others on this forum shouldn't have a problem with identifying baptism of the Holy Spirit with the remission of sins.

Our Catholic and Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters would probably interpret this verse as being more about water baptism. Either way, be both acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins.

I don't feel that receiving the Holy Spirit is for the remission of sins though. I feel that the Holy Spirit is our comforter and guide. I feel that when you first receive salvation, forgiveness of sins is achieved through repentance. Now, I would definitely say that the Holy Spirit has a lot to do with that but I don't feel that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit causes your sins to be forgiven. I don't know though. I'm kinda confused now...

 

[ps139]

Question from a Catholic:

Does "baptism of the Holy Spirit" = "being Born Again"?

 

[Gold Dragon]

Question from a Catholic:

Does "baptism of the Holy Spirit" = "being Born Again"?

I don't know if a mathematical equality would be the best way to represent the relationship of these two ideas, but I think most Baptists would agree that there is a definite correlation between the two. I guess the geeky side of me is coming out again.

 

[Gold Dragon]

I don't feel that receiving the Holy Spirit is for the remission of sins though. I feel that the Holy Spirit is our comforter and guide. I feel that when you first receive salvation, forgiveness of sins is achieved through repentance. Now, I would definitely say that the Holy Spirit has a lot to do with that but I don't feel that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit causes your sins to be forgiven. I don't know though. I'm kinda confused now...

Baptism by water is something John the Baptist did. Baptism by the Holy Spirit is something that Jesus does.

NASB - Matthew 3:11-12

As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

 

[Organist]

In my understanding "being Born Again" is being renewed in Christ. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a result, and a gift.

 

[Ave Maria]

Baptism by water is something John the Baptist did. Baptism by the Holy Spirit is something that Jesus does.

Yeah I know. Most churches also practice water baptism as an outward symbol of an inner commitment to faith. Some churches also believe baptism is required for salvation.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Question from a Catholic:

Does "baptism of the Holy Spirit" = "being Born Again"?

Yes.

 

[Ave Maria]

In my understanding "being Born Again" is being renewed in Christ. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a result, and a gift.

That's the way I also understood it. I always understood that baptism of the Holy Spirit comes directly after salvation. It's separate from salvation and is a gift from God to us.

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

I never read the Nicene Creed before becoming a member here. I thought it was a Catholic thing. (big C) We don't recite it or have to agree with it for membership to my church. We hold the Bible as our sole authority.

Did anyone notice that the verse that is sited with the creed to support that baptism is for the remission of sins...doesn't say "for the remission of sins" in it's text at all? Weird that it's used to support something it doesn't seem to actually support. Usually when a verse is sited it does. I mean, hey, I believe in baptism. I'm a baptist for goodness sakes. But for the remission of sins? Well, that's completely against everything I've been taught to believe as a Baptist.

Weird.

Well...I don't understand Baptism with the Holy Spirit or with Fire. I only understand Water Baptism. And I was taught that baptism is like a wedding ring. It tells the church that you are a Christian like a wedding band tells people you're married. The wedding ring doesn't make you married. And Baptism doesn't make you saved.

I must be really stupid. Cause I just don't understand how this makes me a Christian. I thought I was a a Christian because I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior.

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

This is making my brain hurt. I thought I understood this stuff.

I thought that when you were saved the Holy Spirit entered into you and became your God consciousness...and pretty much sent up warning signals when you were doing something ungodly or sinful. I didn't even know that some people call this baptism of the Holy Spirit. weird that I wouldn't know that.

And, What is Baptism by Fire? I've always been confuzzled about that one. It sounds pentecostal to me.

 

[SonOfThunder]

Hi. I'm an IFB. And I have a bit of a problem with saying that I believe that baptism is for remission of sins to be considered a Christian.

There is a thread in "Forum Suggestions" questioning this sites standard about the Nicene Creed's statement about Baptism being for remission of sins, part of what a person must agree to, to call themselves a Christian or post in the Christian Only forums.

My church believes in the Bible as our sole (soul) athority. Is the Nicene Creed even in the Bible? If it is, would someone give me the book, chapter and verse? Because I seem to have missed it.

Do all of the rest of you believe that baptism is for remission of sins? Or do you like I do, believe that baptism is a public profession of faith. And that it's actually the salvation that saves us?

Isn't saying that we agree that this is what makes us Christian going against our beliefs? Or is this just my church's doctrine?

I really want to understand. What do your Baptist churches believe about Baptism? Does Being baptised = Being Christian?

Hi there

You are right about the rules of CF and where you can and cannot post re:- the Nicene Creed. The Crred is not in The Bible, it was formulated by man to have some common belief's brought in as a standard for the 'tag' Christianity.

In these forums I have seen a simplicity based on faith and belief that Jesus Christ was send by God to be the sacrifice for our sins IF WE CONFESS WITH OURS MOUTHS AND BELIEVE that we are Christian. Follow this in obedience with Baptism and your set....

However, then comes the difficult struggles of acceptance of the trinity, declaring that Jesus is God ...if not you cant be a believer.
Added to this is a whole list of do's and don't's, Baptism by immersion attached to membership of a particular denomination. Separation of denominations to a point of accusations that 'others' cannot see The Kingdom Of God' because they dont believe this or that, then there are works and so on and so on and so on.

John did Baptise for the remission of sins, then came Jesus and the start of His ministry. He siad whosoever believes on me shall have eternal life, it is then commanded to be ye baptised. Sounds simple doesn't it? It is.

James

 

[aReformedPatriot]

And, What is Baptism by Fire? I've always been confuzzled about that one. It sounds pentecostal to me.

I dont know what to say to this except that I enjoyed the comment.