"Banks got Bailed Out We got Sold Out" reason for US Marches

[BlessEwe]

I walked in the San Francisco peaceful protest yesterday and saw people from both parties united for the same reasons. Obama oked the bailout and other protesters before him got us into this mess by allowing bills getting passed for many corporate interests which affects all of us. I hear people on both sides complaining about what is going on with our home loss, job loss ect.

I do not think any politician can fix our mess in America right now, sure they can all talk a bunch of hopeful things including Obama, but its up to us to stand up and take back control of what is happening.

Did you know that people get big $$ to keep America divided. See past all of that and look into things yourself with open minds.

Its not going away, it is only going to get bigger.

I agree with many things of the tea party..But it was started by the crooked Koch brothers money, I do not trust that at all for it is for there own agenda using innocent people.
The Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party - NYTimes.com

 

[lordbt]

That big banks got bailed out is not reason to protest big banks. Protest the big government that bailed them out. And that includes the Obama administration. Even if you accept the argument that banks had to be recapitalized, it could have been done in a way the actually benefited the public. Right now, the public derives no real benefit from low interest rates. Banks borrow money from the FED at 0% can you do that? Are rates on credit cards 0%? Have they gone down at all or are they still 15%-30% rates? Sure, many people have been able to refinance, but not those who were caught in the credit bubble--those that need it the most.

Aside from fiddling around the edges, the housing collapse hasnt been addressed at all. If you are going to throw trillions of dollars around, throw it at the public. Give every homeowner a voucher for ten grand. That would run you about a trillion dollars. The homeowner could only use the vouchers for mortgage payments or down payments on a new home. People behind on their mortgages could catch up, thus reducing foreclosures and everyone else would have several months of mortgage payments made for them freeing up that money to invest or spend on consumer goods.

The boost in economic activity would be temporary, of course, but at least everyone would get to enjoy the benefits of deficit spending before that dragon bites us in the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

 

[mpok1519]

That big banks got bailed out is not reason to protest big banks. Protest the big government that bailed them out. And that includes the Obama administration. Even if you accept the argument that banks had to be recapitalized, it could have been done in a way the actually benefited the public. Right now, the public derives no real benefit from low interest rates. Banks borrow money from the FED at 0% can you do that? Are rates on credit cards 0%? Have they gone down at all or are they still 15%-30% rates? Sure, many people have been able to refinance, but not those who were caught in the credit bubble--those that need it the most.

Aside from fiddling around the edges, the housing collapse hasnt been addressed at all. If you are going to throw trillions of dollars around, throw it at the public. Give every homeowner a voucher for ten grand. That would run you about a trillion dollars. The homeowner could only use the vouchers for mortgage payments or down payments on a new home. People behind on their mortgages could catch up, thus reducing foreclosures and everyone else would have several months of mortgage payments made for them freeing up that money to invest or spend on consumer goods.

The boost in economic activity would be temporary, of course, but at least everyone would get to enjoy the benefits of deficit spending before that dragon bites us in the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Howabout just cutting taxes for the middle class that'd equal a voucher for that much?

 

[lordbt]

The middle class doesnt pay that much in taxes.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Today's politicians are part of a system that's run by corporate lobbyism - not just as far as financing election campaigns is concerned. The state has long since lost its function as a genuine representative of the people and is now mostly acting as an accessory to corporate interests:
privatize proceeds, communalize losses and costs.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

The middle class doesnt pay that much in taxes.

More than the top 1 %.

 

[lordbt]

More than the top 1 %.

How many middle class people do you know that pay $10,000 per year in federal income taxes? As for the evil 1% you find yourself locked in envious contempt of, what is their fair share of taxes? More importantly, what is your fair share of taxes?

 

[NightHawkeye]

More than the top 1 %.

Ahh ... the top 1% ...

Well ... how about the bottom 1%?

Or, better yet ... how about the bottom 51% ... who pay no income taxes at all. It boggles the mind, that one. Kinda seems to me that your argument really has no merit when the majority of the population pays no income tax.

The counter-argument at this point really ought to be a resounding outcry for equality from the oppressed minority. NONE should pay any tax at all, right? Just between us, Jane, aren't we striving for equality here? How can it possibly be fair for the upper class to pay all the taxes?

Oh wait ... they have all the money. Well ... shazam ... how'd that happen? Maybe the reasons for that ought to be the focus of the conversation? Just a thought ...


.

 

[kermit]

Ahh ... the top 1% ...

Well ... how about the bottom 1%?

Or, better yet ... how about the bottom 51% ...

You know what the top 1% the bottom 51% and everyone in the middle share? The shame overall tax rate. This is one of those facts that top 1% guy on the radio or TV doesn't want you to know. All Americans pay roughly 40% in taxes. So next time you imply that the bottom 51% should pay income tax remember what you are really sayings is that those with the least should pay the highest rate.

Also in 2007, when the recession started, that 51% was 35%. You want more Americans to pay income tax the solution isn't just to start taxing them. It's to get people working (not that that's an easy problem to solve)

 

[kermit]

How many middle class people do you know that pay $10,000 per year in federal income taxes? As for the evil 1% you find yourself locked in envious contempt of, what is their fair share of taxes? More importantly, what is your fair share of taxes?

I paid close to that. I know people who make more and have fewer deductions. So I can think of at least 10 middle class people who paid more than that.

 

[Harpuia]

How many middle class people do you know that pay $10,000 per year in federal income taxes? As for the evil 1% you find yourself locked in envious contempt of, what is their fair share of taxes? More importantly, what is your fair share of taxes?

*raises hand*

I pay close to $12,000 a year in federal income taxes man. Being single you are a cash cow.

I still believe OWS is a movement for those people who don't think the solution is we should weight people's votes based on how much money they make.

 

[Verv]

Lord BT has a point.

We should be very angry at the politicians who bailed them out...

The big banks just did what any rational person would do when faced with a "lose your job and all your money" situation -- they asked Mommy & Daddy for help, and they got it.

If I had the option of being irresponsible with my money and asking my parents for some I'd do it, too.

In a child-parent situation, it is always the parent's fault.

 

[Harpuia]

Lord BT has a point.

We should be very angry at the politicians who bailed them out...

The big banks just did what any rational person would do when faced with a "lose your job and all your money" situation -- they asked Mommy & Daddy for help, and they got it.

If I had the option of being irresponsible with my money and asking my parents for some I'd do it, too.

In a child-parent situation, it is always the parent's fault.

I don't know about LordBT, but there have been a load of Republicans who have suggested the same thing that the protestors should protest at the White House, but only because it's Obama. If it was a Republican doing the EXACT SAME THING (*cough*Bush*cough* *cough*2008*cough*), they would have absolutely no qualms about it.

Not being mad at banks for "being banks" is like not being angry at a pedophile for harming children. They say it's an addiction, they say it's "part of nature", doesn't mean that it should be overlooked. The only reason most of them want the protestors to go after the government instead of banks is SOLELY BECAUSE A DEMOCRAT IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE and not a Republican. Libertarians might be different because they actually did complain about Bush towards the end.

 

[Belk]

How many middle class people do you know that pay $10,000 per year in federal income taxes? As for the evil 1% you find yourself locked in envious contempt of, what is their fair share of taxes? More importantly, what is your fair share of taxes?

I have paid more then that for several years now. Personally, I think that instead of raising taxes on the wealthy we need to repeal the tax cuts enacted when Bush was in office. At the same time we need to get the Government to deal better with the money it is taking in.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

*raises hand*

I pay close to $12,000 a year in federal income taxes man. Being single you are a cash cow.

I still believe OWS is a movement for those people who don't think the solution is we should weight people's votes based on how much money they make.

Yup. It does.

 

[Drekkan85]

Just one aside. I've not been the biggest fan of OWS - but I believe that at its core it's not so much protesting the banks per se, but rather protesting the cozy relationship the banks have with Washington and the political class in general.

 

[MachZer0]

I walked in the San Francisco peaceful protest yesterday and saw people from both parties united for the same reasons. Obama oked the bailout and other protesters before him got us into this mess by allowing bills getting passed for many corporate interests which affects all of us. I hear people on both sides complaining about what is going on with our home loss, job loss ect.

I do not think any politician can fix our mess in America right now, sure they can all talk a bunch of hopeful things including Obama, but its up to us to stand up and take back control of what is happening.

Did you know that people get big $$ to keep America divided. See past all of that and look into things yourself with open minds.

Its not going away, it is only going to get bigger.

I agree with many things of the tea party..But it was started by the crooked Koch brothers money, I do not trust that at all for it is for there own agenda using innocent people.
The Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party - NYTimes.com

Isn't this a case of liberals bemoaning liberalism?

 

[whatbogsends]

Just one aside. I've not been the biggest fan of OWS - but I believe that at its core it's not so much protesting the banks per se, but rather protesting the cozy relationship the banks have with Washington and the political class in general.

It's a combination of the relationship the banks have with government, as well as the nefarious practices of these banking institutions. The housing bubble bursting would have had an impact on the economy on it's own, but it was amplified by the banking institutions packaging and re-packaging of those mortgages. There are a whole slew of other predatory practices the banks engage in, and less regulation is not the answer.

Wall Street is largely responsible for the depth and breadth of this recession, and the government is certainly culpable as well. However, those who are part of the problem are not the ones who have been suffering the consequences.

Ironically, the right claims to be an advocate for personal responsibility, but when it comes time for those responsible to pay, they point the finger at the victims. In this case, we, the American people, are the victims.

 

[MachZer0]

It's a combination of the relationship the banks have with government, as well as the nefarious practices of these banking institutions. The housing bubble bursting would have had an impact on the economy on it's own, but it was amplified by the banking institutions packaging and re-packaging of those mortgages. There are a whole slew of other predatory practices the banks engage in, and less regulation is not the answer.

Wall Street is largely responsible for the depth and breadth of this recession, and the government is certainly culpable as well. However, those who are part of the problem are not the ones who have been suffering the consequences.

Ironically, the right claims to be an advocate for personal responsibility, but when it comes time for those responsible to pay, they point the finger at the victims. In this case, we, the American people, are the victims.

It seems to me those responsible to pay would have been those who defaulted on their mortgages and the banks who were in danger of bankruptcy. As I recall, conservatives wanted them to take personal responsibility by allowing the process to work. Those who couldn't afford their homes would lose them and the banks who took on too much risk would go bankrupt.

 

[acropolis]

It seems to me those responsible to pay would have been those who defaulted on their mortgages and the banks who were in danger of bankruptcy. As I recall, conservatives wanted them to take personal responsibility by allowing the process to work. Those who couldn't afford their homes would lose them and the banks who took on too much risk would go bankrupt.

People who default on loans generally can't pay them. Trying to squeeze more blood from those stones isn't any kind of solution. There money just isn't there.