Baha'i, what is it?

[MemeBuster]

You see, this is where you and the OP are getting a little confused. The Baha'i Faith does not in any way proclaim Jesus or Baha'u'llah to be divine.

But doesn't the Bible say that anyone who denies Jesus's divinity is a false prophet?

 

[Arthra]

Ok then you dont accept Christian understanding of trinity, I get it.And how do you correct the beginning passage of John which says '...and the Word was God'?

Do you accept Muslim understanding of Unity which is described in the surah Ihlas 'Say He Allah is one'?

Before we begin to explore a lot of these doctrinal issues we Baha'is have a view of the Trinity that is God as Absolute Unity and like the central spiritual sun of the universe...The rays emanating from that Sun are the Holy Spirit and the Messengers of God reflect the rays. Thus the Trinity as we see it.

- Art

 

[Arthra]

But doesn't the Bible say that anyone who denies Jesus's divinity is a false prophet?

We accept that Jesus was human Who perfectly reflected God.... Most of the "false prophet" verses refer to those in the early church if you'll check on it.

-Art

 

[Clark_98C]

We accept that Jesus was human Who perfectly reflected God.... Most of the "false prophet" verses refer to those in the early church if you'll check on it.

-Art

Exactly. These passages are creative condemnations of break-away "heretical" sects and denominations of Christianity different from the "modern" one.

Nestorius comes to mind.

That being said, in what book was that passage found?

 

[MemeBuster]

I will check out Bahai Reference Library, but could you tell me what is the position of Bahai's on Theory of Evolution and Homosexuality?

 

[anatolian]

Reply to above post:

I know this. And this is where the Baha'i faith breaks from Muslim understanding of "Judgement Day."

To Baha'i's, as taught by Baha'u'llah, the Day of Judgement as described in Christianity and Islam, is a misconception. It is instead, a metaphorical description of the advent of the next dispensation and the next Messenger. I won't bore you with colorful language, there are many books for you to read. It's what I did. Since there is no climactic end of the world, there will necessarily have to be more Messengers.

When we read Quran we clearly see 'the Apocalypse' will happen phsically, litteraly at the end.There will not be a universe after that and no messenger too.

Well in the original Greek the word "Word" was Logos, and the context of the passage is taken from earlier religious concepts which allude that the Logos was creation itself.

Note the pagan philosopher, whose name I forget, who traveled the earth and "found the Logos within us all."

In its originality, it was kind of a glorification of pantheism. "John" just took it and attempted to confine it to one person.

That being said, it is possible that "John" as the later people who created Christianity as we know it today, misunderstood Jesus and so on and so forth.

1:14 Now 34 the Word became flesh 35 and took up residence 36 among us. We 37 saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, 38 full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. 1:15 John 39 testified 40 about him and shouted out, 41 “This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, 42 because he existed before me.’” 1:16 For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another. 43 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but 44 grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, 45 himself God, who is in closest fellowship with 46 the Father, has made God 47 known. 48

this says jesus ws god himself??

And if 'John' misunderstood Christ then how we trust the gospel of John?

 

[9Harmony]

WE believe that Quran is a cure for all mankind and untill the End.And Hz.Muhammed said that there will not be any other revelation.There will be only some scolars for each century to comment Quran and Sunnah for the new problems.

just a couple key points....

"WE believe that Quran is a cure for all mankind and untill the End."

until the End....

Both Muslims and Christians believe that Christ will return at the End (of the age).

"And Hz.Muhammed said that there will not be any other revelation."

okay....So if Christ returns it will not be another revelation, correct? It will be a renewal of what has been taught before, correcting the misconceptions of the past.

Baha'i's believe that Baha'u'llah is the One both Christians and Muslims have been waiting for. Other religions are also awaiting a universal manifestation who will usher in an age of peace.

To Israel He was neither more nor less than the
incarnation of the "Everlasting Father", the "Lord of
Hosts" come down "with ten thousands of saints"; to
Christendom Christ returned "in the glory of the Father";
to Shí'ah Islam the return of the Imam Husayn; to Sunni
Islam the descent of the "Spirit of God" (Jesus Christ); to
the Zoroastrians the promised Shah-Bahram; to the
Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists
the fifth Buddha. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 234)

the main problem is that all of these groups are thinking that these prophecies refer to different people, but yet, if God is One, why would they not all be references to the same One? All of mankind has been progressing throughout millenia, to arrive at this point. The consumation of all religions to the ultimate recognition that there really is only One God. God has educated all of mankind throughout history with the means available at the time, only now is it possible that mankind has the capacity to realize that these different revelations were all necessary stages to get to this point.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

When we read Quran we clearly see 'the Apocalypse' will happen phsically, litteraly at the end.There will not be a universe after that and no messenger too.

No Universe? You have got to be kidding as I don't know of too many that believe the whole universe will end. Can you elaborate? thanks.

 

[anatolian]

tHis material univeres will end and the Judgement will appear and then heaven and hell will appear...a different life form in a different place

 

[I_are_sceptical]

I will check out Bahai Reference Library, but could you tell me what is the position of Bahai's on Theory of Evolution and Homosexuality?

Evolution:
Writings of 'Abdu'l-Baha
Some Answered Questiobns
There is a short chapter on evolution. As I recall, it only says that humans have souls and therefore are not just a higher form of ape. Other than that the details of the issue are not discussed. But I could be wrong.

Homosexuality:
There is a detailed statement from the Universal House of Justice.

 

[MemeBuster]

Interesting stuff...

Of the story of Adam and Eve He says:

If we take this story in its apparent meaning, according to the interpretation of the masses, it is indeed extraordinary. The intelligence cannot accept it, affirm it, or imagine it; for such arrangements, such details, such speeches and reproaches are far from being those of an intelligent man, how must less of the Divinity—that Divinity who has organised this infinite universe in the most perfect form, and its innumerable inhabitants with absolute system, strength, and perfection. …

Therefore this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvellous explanations.—Some Answered Questions, p. 140

 

[9Harmony]

But doesn't the Bible say that anyone who denies Jesus's divinity is a false prophet?

The Bible says that anyone who denies that Christ came in the flesh...

1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (King James Bible, 2 John)

Baha'u'llah passes this test as well. Speaking of Christ He says...

XXXVI. Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence 86 exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified. -(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 85)

 

[9Harmony]

tHis material univeres will end and the Judgement will appear and then heaven and hell will appear...a different life form in a different place

One thing all scriptures have in common is the use of glorious descriptive language to express spiritual realities. A strictly literal reading of scripture therefore leads to a strictly literal interpretation.

This verse from the Quran itself explains that many believers will have misunderstood the meanings enshrined within.

"And they do not value God at His true value; while the earth all of it is but a handful for Him on the resurrection day, and the heavens shall be rolled up in His right hand! Celebrated be His praise! and exalted be He above what they associate with Him! And the trumpet shall be blown, and those who are in the heavens and in the earth shall swoon, save whom God pleases. Then it shall be blown again, and, lo! they shall stand up and look on. And the earth shall beam with the light of its Lord, and the Book shall be set forth, and the prophets and martyrs shall be brought; and it shall be decreed between them in truth, and they shall not be wronged! And every soul shall be paid for what it has done, and He knows best that which they do; and those who misbelieve shall be driven to hell in troops; and when they come there, its doors shall be opened, and its keepers shall say to them, 'Did not apostles from amongst yourselves come to you to recite to you the signs of your Lord, and to warn you of the meeting of this day of yours?' They shall say, 'Yea, but the sentence of torment was due against the misbelievers!' It shall be said, 'Enter ye the gates of hell, to dwell therein for aye! Hell is the resort of those who are too big with pride!' But those who fear their Lord shall be driven to Paradise in troops; until they come there, its doors shall be opened, and its keepers shall say to them, 'Peace be upon you, ye have done well! so enter in to dwell for aye!' and they shall say, 'Praise be to God, who hath made good His promise to us, and hath given us the earth to inherit! We establish ourselves in Paradise wherever we please and goodly is the reward of those who work!'" (The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 39 - The Troops)

It also tells us that some will inherit the earth, so does that not tell us that the earth will not be literally destroyed?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by anatolian
tHis material univeres will end and the Judgement will appear and then heaven and hell will appear...a different life form in a different place

One thing all scriptures have in common is the use of glorious descriptive language to express spiritual realities. A strictly literal reading of scripture therefore leads to a strictly literal interpretation.

This verse from the Quran itself explains that many believers will have misunderstood the meanings enshrined within.

It also tells us that some will inherit the earth, so does that not tell us that the earth will not be literally destroyed?

Hi and nice post Harmony.

Do the Muslims understand that the New Jeruslaem and heaven and earth are in conjunction with the Consummation of the New Covenant the Lord Jesus brought to the Jews?

Isaiah 65:17 " For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the Former shall not be remembered or come to mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I Create Jerusalem [as] a rejoicing,

Jeremiah 31:31 Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have CUT with the house of Israel And with the house of Judah a New Covenant, 32 Not like the covenant that I CUT with their fathers,

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, forthe First heaven and the Firstearth did pass away, and the sea is not any more; 2 and I, John, saw the holy city--New Jerusalem--coming down from God out of the heaven,

 

[TrevorKamal]

When we read Quran we clearly see 'the Apocalypse' will happen phsically, litteraly at the end.There will not be a universe after that and no messenger too.

Where in the Qur'an are we led to believe that it is physical and literal and not spoken of in symbolic terms?

I respect the Bahai faith but the first princible of the logic says something is either A or not A.If you say Jesus is the manifestation of God then you contradict Quran which says Jesus is not.And Bahais say Quran is true revelaton of God too.

can I ask whats your explanation ?

Where do you see a difference in the definitions of "Rasul" and "Manifestation of God"?

 

[Arthra]

When the Bible or the Qur'an have reference to the last days we Baha'is belive they are usually using symbolic language about the end one life or view of the universe and another life or view of things... So the end of the age is not the end of the physical universe ...just the end of the universe of our past knowing...

So scriptures use metaphor and symbols that are sometimes taken literally by people.

God's creation will continue because He is a Creator God and He will continue to reveal Himslef through His Messengers and Manifestations we believe just as He has done from time immemorial.

Regarding the New Jerusalem the Baha'i Writings have this description:

"The heavenly Jerusalem is none other than divine civilization, and it is now ready. It is to be and shall be organized, and the oneness of humankind will be a visible fact. Humanity will then be brought together as one."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by anatolian
I respect the Bahai faith but the first princible of the logic says something is either A or not A.If you say Jesus is the manifestation of God then you contradict Quran which says Jesus is not.And Bahais say Quran is true revelaton of God too.

can I ask whats your explanation ?

Where do you see a difference in the definitions of "Rasul" and "Manifestation of God"?

Bump......Perhaps the Quran contradicts the Bible? The Muslims nor Jews read Revelation where many of the answers are given by the LORD in the Final Revelation to Mankind and especially the "symbolic" Jews and Israel.

Read Genesis 49 and Revelation together and tell me where it contradicts? Thoughts?

Genesis 49:1 And Jacob called his sons and said, "Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days:

Reve 6:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred [and] forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel [were] sealed:

Gene 49:9 Judah [is] a lion's whelp; From the prey, my son, you have gone up. He bows down, he lies down as a lion; And as a Lion, who shall rouse him? 10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor a lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes;

Reve 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals." 6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slaughtered,

 

[9Harmony]

So, Baha'u'llah was both the Christ and Mahdi?

Also, there were certain Earth-shattering things that were suppose to happen with the return of Christ that no one could miss. I could be wrong, but I don't think any such thing has happened.

yes, all of the Holy Books express this in gloriously descriptive language. for example the Bible says that 'every eye shall see Him'.

1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him... (King James Bible, Revelation)

yet, note: it does not say all shall recognize him.

throughout all scriptures, for some reason mankind has understood that these events are instantaneous, sudden occurrances, yet, looking at history, when has this ever been the case? God's work is a process, slow, meticulous, and complete.

LXX. The world's equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind's ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System -- the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 136)

I believe every prophecy of every Holy Book will play itself out, but i think that when each of us insists that the religion we adhere to are separate and contain all there is to know, we miss valuable connections. Imho they are all are interconnected, and each holds keys to the whole picture. And focusing only on this one or that, we miss important pieces of the big picture.

Time will tell.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

yes, all of the Holy Books express this is gloriously descriptive language. for example the Bible says that 'every eye shall see Him'.

Hi and nice post. That passage is taken from the OC Book of Jeremiah btw.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Reve 1:7 Behold! He is coming with the clouds and shall be seeing Him every eye even who any Him they stab, and shall be bewailing over Him all the tribes of the Land. Yea Amen. [Jeremiah 4:13] 8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," is saying Lord the God—the One being, and the One was, and the One coming—The Almighty[2 corin 6:18]!

(Young) Jeremiah 4:13 Lo, as clouds He cometh up, And as a hurricane his chariots, Lighter than eagles have been his horses, Woe to us, for we have been spoiled.

 

[thatsmrjason2u]

but could you tell me what is the position of Bahai's on Theory of Evolution and Homosexuality?

You weren't Asking Me but oh Well.

When it Comes to Evolution I Believe the Baha'is Accept It. In Fact I think Bahaullah Said Numerous Times that Religion should Accept Science or Something along Those Lines.

In Terms of Homosexuality I remember Reading a Passage where Bahaullah said That No Matter how Strong the Love is They shouldn't Engage in Sexual Acts. I Believe that the Baha'is Accept the Love part of Homosexuality but Not the Sexual Part. In reality Though It's not nearly as Homophobic as Other Religions.

It's a Really Beutiful Religion and has Potential to become a Very Major Religion once the Word Gets Out.