'bad' people

[mnbvcxz87]

Adolf hitler

http://fboizard.blog.lemonde.fr/photos/uncategorized/hitler.JPG

Ian Huntley - convicted of murdering two young girls

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/serial_killers/predators/ian_huntley/1-2-Ian-Huntley.jpg

President Mugabe

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/forum/mugabe.JPG

I want you to look for a few seconds at each of these three people. While you do, imagine that they are not defined by their crimes / actions / atrocities.

No, imagine that they are defined by their existence. While you look at them think of them as living things, not even people. They are three beings.

Are they really evil? Or did they just act in an 'evil' way?

Are they any different in existence, than you or me? No clearly like you and me, all three of them were once babies. As a baby they are surely neither good nor bad, because they act not in a moral way at that early stage of human life.

So then does acting imorally as an adult define you as evil? That would define your whole being as 'evil', whereas in my opinion, it is only the actions which are evil, and not the being.

 

[AV1611VET]

Are they any different in existence, than you or me?

No --- we're all born with a sin nature.

[bible]Jeremiah 17:9[/bible]

We aren't sinners because we sin --- we sin because we're sinners.

 

[mnbvcxz87]

Ok but I really don't want a religious interpretation of my point. Your own thoughts would be nice.

 

[Adriac]

Amen to that.

 

[Lord_Marx]

I don't think anyone is pure evil, I'm sure that these three people had some good attributes about them, but such evil acts overshadow any good parts about them and end up being what defines them as people.

 

[mnbvcxz87]

I don't think anyone is pure evil, I'm sure that these three people had some good attributes about them, but such evil acts overshadow any good parts about them and end up being what defines them as people.

But their wickidness, for lack of a better term, is only our interpretation of them. What I'm proposing is that there is no such thing as a good or bad person, only good or bad actions.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ok but I really don't want a religious interpretation of my point. Your own thoughts would be nice.

Huh???

...imagine that they are not defined by their crimes / actions / atrocities.

I didn't do that.

No, imagine that they are defined by their existence. While you look at them think of them as living things, not even people. They are three beings.

I did all that.

Are they really evil? Or did they just act in an 'evil' way?

Are they any different in existence, than you or me? No clearly like you and me, all three of them were once babies. As a baby they are surely neither good nor bad, because they act not in a moral way at that early stage of human life.

So then does acting imorally as an adult define you as evil? That would define your whole being as 'evil', whereas in my opinion, it is only the actions which are evil, and not the being.

You want to talk about morals, good and evil; but you don't want a religious answer???

 

[RealityCheck]

No --- we're all born with a sin nature.

[bible]Jeremiah 17:9[/bible]

We aren't sinners because we sin --- we sin because we're sinners.

Hmmm... that would be the same as

"I'm not a thief because I steal --- I steal because I'm a thief."

"I'm not a murderer because I kill --- I kill because I'm a murderer."

But this is completely wrong. One cannot be a murderer until he/she has killed someone. A person is not a murderer or thief by nature, the acts they commit define them as such.

 

[mnbvcxz87]

You want to talk about morals, good and evil; but you don't want a religious answer???

Exactly. I know what the christian, jewish, islamic, buddhist, jain, hindu, tao, pagan, asnwers would be.


I want people's answers from their own perspective, and not a religious perspective. Let's pretend for the purposes of this thread that religion doesn't exist.

 

[AV1611VET]

But this is completely wrong. One cannot be a murderer until he/she has killed someone. A person is not a murderer or thief by nature, the acts they commit define them as such.

[bible]Matthew 5:27-28[/bible]

 

[JesusWalks78]

People are not bad, they just do bad things sometimes.

 

[DailyBlessings]

I want people's answers from their own perspective, and not a religious perspective. Let's pretend for the purposes of this thread that religion doesn't exist.

Why would someone without religion care about the question?

And what if "your own perspective" is shaped by religion? Not all of us start one-man personality cults.

 

[mnbvcxz87]

Why would someone without religion care about the question?

And what if "your own perspective" is shaped by religion? Not all of us start one-man personality cults.

This thread isn't about religion. If you look at the second part of the reply you quote, I explain that I know the religious perspective on this issue. I want the actual, independant thoughts of individual people. What they would think, without repeating what a religion says.

 

[mnbvcxz87]

And if we take this the other way, is there such thing as a good person? What is the nuetral morality of the human from which we deviate?

What I propose is that this state is neither good nor bad. The nature of humans is such that we can be moulded to any morality, to any state of acting good, or bad.

And further, that the adults have the responsability to ensure that the young are moulded to a morality where they act 'good'.

 

[DailyBlessings]

This thread isn't about religion. If you look at the second part of the reply you quote, I explain that I know the religious perspective on this issue. I want the actual, independant thoughts of individual people. What they would think, without repeating what a religion says.

It asks a religious question. Why are you assuming that people have a personal opinion completely independent of experience? That goes against the whole of social science, suggesting that culture doesn't play a role in what people think.

 

[mnbvcxz87]

It asks a religious question. Why are you assuming that people have a personal opinion completely independent of experience? That goes against the whole of social science, suggesting that culture doesn't play a role in what people think.

I'm not going to argue for the sake of arguing. The thread is about the OP.

 

[DailyBlessings]

I'm not going to argue for the sake of arguing. The thread is about the OP.

Until you criticise the answers you get, for being exactly what one would expect. The answers for believers will be shaped by beliefs, and atheists could care less if someone is "evil" or not.

 

[mnbvcxz87]

Until you criticise the answers you get, for being exactly what one would expect. The answers for believers will be shaped by beliefs, and atheists could care less if someone is "evil" or not.

That is a quite absurd generalization. If your only perspective on the OP is what your religion has to say, then with all due respect, the thread doesn't need your input. I don't mean that in a rude way, I want non religious opinions.

 

[JesusWalks78]

That is a quite absurd generalization. If your only perspective on the OP is what your religion has to say, then with all due respect, the thread doesn't need your input. I don't mean that in a rude way, I want non religious opinions.

You are not going to get them from religious people...you may want to try a less religious board...I dont mean that in a rude way, just seeing as you are doing a search for non religious answers a christian board may not be the best place to do that.

 

[fillerbunny]

But if the individual is religious, religion is going to influence their opinion. You can ask that religion not be mentioned, but that doesn't mean that it's not still influencing the response.

Our cultures help to shape the manner in which we view, interpret, and respond to the world around us- and religious beliefs (or lack thereof) are a part of that culture.