Babylon the Great?

Ratiocination said:

No! the book isn't directed to a specific audience, it just says "slaves", the refferences to the seven congs. come after it is said to be presented in "signs", which means you have to fit in with the intended audience 1) the Great Trib, 2) destruction of A harlot (for ever), 3) destrution of all government, etc, etc. Where were these events in history? It is not me that is trying to apply certain things all over the place, it is in fact you, unless you can show when these things took place.

Not all of them clearly! It says to let the reader use discernment, which is what we should do.

I agree, you’ve sentence is circular, but mine wasn’t! I’m saying Revelation is full of things that cannot be pinned to their time, therefore it is more likely to be fulfilled in our time. [as we live in the most unique time in history]

The only audience in revelation is the seven symbolic congs. There really is nothing of any weight that should make you look at these in a literal way? Even the things said to them are presented in symbolisms, like “jezebel” etc.

What parts of the Bible do we apply to us? I mean we are living in the most wicked time in all history and it would have been nice of God to let us know why.

Your illustration is invalid. It doesn’t take into account the other parties mentioned in rev. 1:1, it should read something like; “what if you found letters from your grandfather that were sent to your grandmother showing her things that will take place so she can tell the rest of her family! (notice the “family” is unspecific like the “slaves” in rev 1:1)

Jesus didn’t “come” to the congregation of Thyatira, you even say this when below you say he went to Jerusalem. Which is it?

Ok, so what does the destruction of a foreign city mean to the people of Thyatira? Lets note that it wasn’t the Jews in general that were destroyed, they’re still there, and so is Jerusalem, so as I said before God must of failed to destroy them completely if we take your interpretation as truth. What comfort would it have been to them?

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After rereading this and thinking about it some more, I think there are two large hurdles between us.

The first one is the sign/symbolic thing. It is not what you are saying it is.

1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must happen very soon. He made it clear by sending his angel to his servant John, 1:2 who then testified to everything that he saw concerning the word of God and the testimony about Jesus Christ. 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy aloud, and blessed are those who hear and obey the things written in it, because the time is near!

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The word used means to make clear or indicate. "denote" it is not the word used to indicate a parable, allegory or type. None of the translations use it with your meaning.

Secondly,we are not unique or in the most wicked time in history. Even without Revelation, there are several very clear passages that show that the last days were then and related to the last days of the OC. Those days were unrepeatable. There has never been and will never be a time like the judgment of God's OC people in the first century. God divorced and slew all the wicked from among His people. The synagogue of satan, the harlot, the blind guides of the blind, the children of the devil, the children of Hagar, the brood of serpents, the unjust steward, the goats; all are describing the generation that called down the blood of Jesus on their own heads and their children. And they got it. Never again and not any possibility of repeating it. The church of Thyatira had this going for them, they new that Jerusalem wasn't just some foreign city. It was the center of the world and God's city. When it was destroyed it meant that the world had changed for everyone. The entire generation that had been persecuting the church and claiming that it was a false religion were destroyed, and God's true children were revealed and vindicated.

We're so vain we think the verses are about us. We assume that we are the most important. We wind up our pride and associate every bump and struggle with "The Big One". Well the only thing that we can conclusively say, is that every generation for the last 1000 years has been wrong, and the thing that they all had in common was they thought they were the terminal generation. For hundreds of years the one thing that has tied all the date setters and terminal generation prophets together is their embarrassing streak of being 100% wrong every time. Instead of a paradigm shift they just reuse the junk and make a new date or a new trigger for the end. The only thing going for the new theory is that the next date hasn't arrived to prove them wrong again.

Babylonian, Roman and Greek society had us beat hands down. Abortion, state condoned sodomy, pedophilia, emperor worship, slavery, misogyny and worse was the accepted norm. That was going on in Jesus day and He never directly addresses any of it. What are the things that make today "the most wicked"?

God's covenant people denied Him and killed His Son. They rejected life and turned back to the shadows. That is greater wickedness than Hollywood drama. That generation brought down this curse on themselves.

“For this reason I am sending you prophets and wise men and experts in the law, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that on you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I tell you the truth, this generation will be held responsible for all these things!

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