B.B Warfield "The Calvinist"

[BBAS 64]

Good day,

I enjoyed it so I figured I would share:

Snip....
"The Calvinist, in a word, is the man who sees God. He has caught sight of the ineffable Vision, and he will not let it fade for a moment from his eyes — God in nature, God in history, God in grace. Everywhere he sees God in His mighty stepping, everywhere he feels the working of His mighty arm, the throbbing of His mighty heart. The Calvinist is therefore, by way of eminence, the supernaturalist in the world of thought. The world itself is to him a supernatural product. not merely in the sense that somewhere, away back before all time, God made it, but that God is making it now, and in every event that falls out. In every modification of what is, that takes place, His hand is visible, as through all occurrences His “one increasing purpose runs”. Man himself is His — created for His glory, and having as the one supreme end of his existence to glorify his Maker, and haply also to enjoy Him forever. And salvation, in every step and stage of it, is of God. Conceived in God’s love, wrought out by God’s own Son in a supernatural life and death in this world of sin, and applied by God’s Spirit in a series of acts as supernatural as the virgin birth and the resurrection of the Son of God themselves — it is a supernatural work through and through. To the Calvinist, thus, the Church of God is as direct a creation of God as the first creation itself. In this supernaturalism, the whole thought and feeling and life of the Calvinist is steeped. Without it there can be no Calvinism, for it is just this that is Calvinism."
— .. , “Present Day Attitude to Calvinism” in (1909)

https://www.newhopefairfax.org/files/Warfield_Present_Day.pdf

In Him,


Bill

 

[BobRyan]

Good day,

I enjoyed it so I figured I would share:

Snip....
"The Calvinist, in a word, is the man who sees God. He has caught sight of the ineffable Vision, and he will not let it fade for a moment from his eyes — God in nature, God in history, God in grace. Everywhere he sees God in His mighty stepping, everywhere he feels the working of His mighty arm, the throbbing of His mighty heart. The Calvinist is therefore, by way of eminence, the supernaturalist in the world of thought. The world itself is to him a supernatural product. not merely in the sense that somewhere, away back before all time, God made it, but that God is making it now, and in every event that falls out. In every modification of what is, that takes place, His hand is visible, as through all occurrences His “one increasing purpose runs”. Man himself is His — created for His glory, and having as the one supreme end of his existence to glorify his Maker, and haply also to enjoy Him forever. And salvation, in every step and stage of it, is of God. Conceived in God’s love, wrought out by God’s own Son in a supernatural life and death in this world of sin, and applied by God’s Spirit in a series of acts as supernatural as the virgin birth and the resurrection of the Son of God themselves — it is a supernatural work through and through. To the Calvinist, thus, the Church of God is as direct a creation of God as the first creation itself. In this supernaturalism, the whole thought and feeling and life of the Calvinist is steeped. Without it there can be no Calvinism, for it is just this that is Calvinism."
— .. , “Present Day Attitude to Calvinism” in (1909)

https://www.newhopefairfax.org/files/Warfield_Present_Day.pdf

In Him,


Bill

ok -- taking some liberty here on my part -- not in quotes since I am changing words in it.

The Christian (Calvinist or not) , in a word, is the man who sees God. He has caught sight of the ineffable Vision, and he will not let it fade for a moment from his eyes — God in nature, God in history, God in grace. Everywhere he sees God in His mighty stepping, everywhere he feels the working of His mighty arm, the throbbing of His mighty heart. The Christian is therefore, by way of eminence, the supernaturalist in the world of thought. The world itself is to him a supernatural product. not merely in the sense that somewhere, away back before all time, God made it, but that God is making it now, and in every event that falls out. In every modification of what is, that takes place, His hand is visible, as through all occurrences His “one increasing purpose runs”. Man himself is His — created for His glory, and having as the one supreme end of his existence to glorify his Maker, and haply also to enjoy Him forever. And salvation, in every step and stage of it, is of God. Conceived in God’s love, wrought out by God’s own Son in a supernatural life and death in this world of sin, and applied by God’s Spirit in a series of acts as supernatural as the virgin birth and the resurrection of the Son of God themselves — it is a supernatural work through and through. To the Christian, thus, the Church of God is as direct a creation of God as the first creation itself. In this supernaturalism, the whole thought and feeling and life of the Christian is steeped. Without it there can be no Christianity, for it is just this that is Christian (Calvinist or not).

 

[AlexB23]

Good day,

I enjoyed it so I figured I would share:

Snip....
"The Calvinist, in a word, is the man who sees God. He has caught sight of the ineffable Vision, and he will not let it fade for a moment from his eyes — God in nature, God in history, God in grace. Everywhere he sees God in His mighty stepping, everywhere he feels the working of His mighty arm, the throbbing of His mighty heart. The Calvinist is therefore, by way of eminence, the supernaturalist in the world of thought. The world itself is to him a supernatural product. not merely in the sense that somewhere, away back before all time, God made it, but that God is making it now, and in every event that falls out. In every modification of what is, that takes place, His hand is visible, as through all occurrences His “one increasing purpose runs”. Man himself is His — created for His glory, and having as the one supreme end of his existence to glorify his Maker, and haply also to enjoy Him forever. And salvation, in every step and stage of it, is of God. Conceived in God’s love, wrought out by God’s own Son in a supernatural life and death in this world of sin, and applied by God’s Spirit in a series of acts as supernatural as the virgin birth and the resurrection of the Son of God themselves — it is a supernatural work through and through. To the Calvinist, thus, the Church of God is as direct a creation of God as the first creation itself. In this supernaturalism, the whole thought and feeling and life of the Calvinist is steeped. Without it there can be no Calvinism, for it is just this that is Calvinism."
— .. , “Present Day Attitude to Calvinism” in (1909)

https://www.newhopefairfax.org/files/Warfield_Present_Day.pdf

In Him,


Bill

My artificial intelligence software is busy digesting some US law (and has been for 76 hours straight, and is 85% done with the first step of ingestion, so another 13-14 hours left, and another week or so of more processing after that), so I can not use it to analyze Calvinism, but as a Catholic, we do not follow Calvinism. Even before becoming Catholic, I just tried to follow Jesus' words alone. Maybe in a few days, I could ask the AI some questions about this stuff, as it is hooked up to Christian documents, but not for the next few days.

@Michie , what are your thoughts on this Calvinism stuff?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Good day,

I enjoyed it so I figured I would share:

Snip....
"The Calvinist, in a word, is the man who sees God. He has caught sight of the ineffable Vision, and he will not let it fade for a moment from his eyes — God in nature, God in history, God in grace. Everywhere he sees God in His mighty stepping, everywhere he feels the working of His mighty arm, the throbbing of His mighty heart. The Calvinist is therefore, by way of eminence, the supernaturalist in the world of thought. The world itself is to him a supernatural product. not merely in the sense that somewhere, away back before all time, God made it, but that God is making it now, and in every event that falls out. In every modification of what is, that takes place, His hand is visible, as through all occurrences His “one increasing purpose runs”. Man himself is His — created for His glory, and having as the one supreme end of his existence to glorify his Maker, and haply also to enjoy Him forever. And salvation, in every step and stage of it, is of God. Conceived in God’s love, wrought out by God’s own Son in a supernatural life and death in this world of sin, and applied by God’s Spirit in a series of acts as supernatural as the virgin birth and the resurrection of the Son of God themselves — it is a supernatural work through and through. To the Calvinist, thus, the Church of God is as direct a creation of God as the first creation itself. In this supernaturalism, the whole thought and feeling and life of the Calvinist is steeped. Without it there can be no Calvinism, for it is just this that is Calvinism."
— .. , “Present Day Attitude to Calvinism” in (1909)

https://www.newhopefairfax.org/files/Warfield_Present_Day.pdf

In Him,


Bill

So, only a Calvinist can believe that salvation is of God? Yes, Jesus did all of the work, so salvation is not of man's works or else man could boast of saving himself.

But, B.B. Warfield forgot one major thing. God makes man responsible. Not to save himself. But, to acknowledge what God has done and to humble himself and acknowledge that he is a lost sinner and can't save himself while asking God for mercy.

Like what the tax collector in this parable did:

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

If God made man responsible to willingly choose to humble himself and acknowledge that he can't save himself and that only Jesus can save him, does this take anything away from God's grace and His sovereignty? Absolutely not!

Scripture teaches that God wants all people to repent (Acts 17:30-31, 2 Peter 3:9) and all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6, John 3:16, 1 John 2:1-2). And it teaches that He offers salvation to all people (Titus 2:11). With all that in mind, why would God not give every person a genuine opportunity to be saved? Does He offer salvation to some people who He already predetermined would not be saved? What kind of "God" would do that? A cruel one. A dishonest one. It takes nothing away from God's grace and sovereignty for Him to make man responsible, not to earn his own salvation, but to acknowledge that they are hopeless and can't save themselves without Him.

Calvinism does not take all of scripture into consideration. Like all false doctrine, it cherry picks verses to support its doctrine while ignoring many others and while also misinterpreting many verses.

 

[BBAS 64]

So, only a Calvinist can believe that salvation is of God? Yes, Jesus did all of the work, so salvation is not of man's works or else man could boast of saving himself.

But, B.B. Warfield forgot one major thing. God makes man responsible. Not to save himself. But, to acknowledge what God has done and to humble himself and acknowledge that he is a lost sinner and can't save himself while asking God for mercy.

Like what the tax collector in this parable did:

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

If God made man responsible to willingly choose to humble himself and acknowledge that he can't save himself and that only Jesus can save him, does this take anything away from God's grace and His sovereignty? Absolutely not!

Scripture teaches that God wants all people to repent (Acts 17:30-31, 2 Peter 3:9) and all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6, John 3:16, 1 John 2:1-2). And it teaches that He offers salvation to all people (Titus 2:11). With all that in mind, why would God not give every person a genuine opportunity to be saved? Does He offer salvation to some people who He already predetermined would not be saved? What kind of "God" would do that? A cruel one. A dishonest one. It takes nothing away from God's grace and sovereignty for Him to make man responsible, not to earn his own salvation, but to acknowledge that they are hopeless and can't save themselves without Him.

Calvinism does not take all of scripture into consideration. Like all false doctrine, it cherry picks verses to support its doctrine while ignoring many others and while also misinterpreting many verses.

Good day, Spiritual Jew

I think you will find that indeed Warfield in his work on soteriology ( overview in link) understood correctly man's responsibility.

The Soteriology of B. B. Warfield | Monergism

by Fred ZaspelWarfield speaks often of the fundamental redemptive character of Christianity— a “sinner’s religion”—and takes great delight at seemingly every

www.monergism.com

Unless of course you can provide a primary link from Him that shows other wise.

Men who love the darkness and hate the light will never come to the light they hate because they love darkness. That choice to hate the light (willingly/ freely) and love darkness for that choice they are responsible as it is an act of their will ( as it represents their strongest sinful desire) they can do no other., and thus will not.

Their heart is wicked continually, and it is the heart that the will is completely and totally informed by.

Here is the complete studies in Theology by Warfield- https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/warfield/Studies in Theology - B. B. Warfield.pdf


In Him

Bill

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Good day, Spiritual Jew

I think you will find that indeed Warfield in his work on soteriology ( overview in link) understood correctly man's responsibility.

The Soteriology of B. B. Warfield | Monergism

by Fred ZaspelWarfield speaks often of the fundamental redemptive character of Christianity— a “sinner’s religion”—and takes great delight at seemingly every

www.monergism.com

Unless of course you can provide a primary link from Him that shows other wise.

Men who love the darkness and hate the light will never come to the light they hate because they love darkness. That choice to hate the light (willingly/ freely) and love darkness for that choice they are responsible as it is an act of their will ( as it represents their strongest sinful desire) they can do no other., and thus will not.

Their heart is wicked continually, and it is the heart that the will is completely and totally informed by.

Here is the complete studies in Theology by Warfield- https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/warfield/Studies in Theology - B. B. Warfield.pdf


In Him

Bill

I have no interest in reading his false teachings. For you or him, as Calvinists, to call it a choice to hate the light and love the darkness is laughable at best. A choice implies at least two valid options. There is no "choice" in Calvinism in that sense. Calvinism also can't explain why people have no excuse for making the choice to hate the light and love darkness (Romans 1:18-32). Calvinism gives people an excuse by saying, as you did, "they can do no other" but to hate the light and love darkness. But, that is simply not true.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

God offers salvation to all people, not just some as Calvinism teaches. He doesn't actually offer it to anyone in Calvinism, He just gives it to some and withholds it from the rest.

If those who hate the light and love darkness can't help but to do so, then explain Stephen being angry at such people for resisting the Holy Spirit:

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

If some people can't help but hate the light and love darkness, then why did Jesus say this:

Matthew 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.

Did Jesus not genuinely want the Jews to repent and put their faith in Him? He clearly did. Yet, they "were not willing". It wasn't that He wasn't willing and He made them in such a way that they could not be willing. They made that choice, but could have chosen to repent and put their faith in Him instead. Otherwise, what He said would make no sense. He wouldn't have genuinely "longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings" if that wasn't actually possible.

 

[BBAS 64]

I have no interest in reading his false teachings. For you or him, as Calvinists, to call it a choice to hate the light and love the darkness is laughable at best. A choice implies at least two valid options. There is no "choice" in Calvinism in that sense. Calvinism also can't explain why people have no excuse for making the choice to hate the light and love darkness (Romans 1:18-32). Calvinism gives people an excuse by saying, as you did, "they can do no other" but to hate the light and love darkness. But, that is simply not true.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

God offers salvation to all people, not just some as Calvinism teaches. He doesn't actually offer it to anyone in Calvinism, He just gives it to some and withholds it from the rest.

If those who hate the light and love darkness can't help but to do so, then explain Stephen being angry at such people for resisting the Holy Spirit:

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

If some people can't help but hate the light and love darkness, then why did Jesus say this:

Matthew 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.

Did Jesus not genuinely want the Jews to repent and put their faith in Him? He clearly did. Yet, they "were not willing". It wasn't that He wasn't willing and He made them in such a way that they could not be willing. They made that choice, but could have chosen to repent and put their faith in Him instead. Otherwise, what He said would make no sense. He wouldn't have genuinely "longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings" if that wasn't actually possible.

Good day, Spiritual Jew


All I can say is wow.... talk about an ahistorical look at Calvinism.

You do know that Calvin himself had a school that trained missionaries to go into France
You do know that William Carey, Johnathan Edwards, CH Spurgeon (the prince of Preachers), George Whitfield were all Calvinist right?
You do know that Evangelism Explosion was a class developed and taught by Calvinist right?

Evangelism Explosion (EE) is a Christian evangelistic discipleship ministry and training program.

Unregenerate men are child of wrath by nature, no one should be surprised when pagans act like pagans, and they are God haters.

It is right here:

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

The context of that passage in Matthew has to do with a judgement Jesus made against the them that killed the Prophets. So I am not sure what the question is or why you think it is related in any way to men loving darkness and hating light (by Choice)

In Him,

Bill

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Good day,

I enjoyed it so I figured I would share:

Snip....
"The Calvinist, in a word, is the man who sees God. He has caught sight of the ineffable Vision, and he will not let it fade for a moment from his eyes — God in nature, God in history, God in grace. Everywhere he sees God in His mighty stepping, everywhere he feels the working of His mighty arm, the throbbing of His mighty heart. The Calvinist is therefore, by way of eminence, the supernaturalist in the world of thought. The world itself is to him a supernatural product. not merely in the sense that somewhere, away back before all time, God made it, but that God is making it now, and in every event that falls out. In every modification of what is, that takes place, His hand is visible, as through all occurrences His “one increasing purpose runs”. Man himself is His — created for His glory, and having as the one supreme end of his existence to glorify his Maker, and haply also to enjoy Him forever. And salvation, in every step and stage of it, is of God. Conceived in God’s love, wrought out by God’s own Son in a supernatural life and death in this world of sin, and applied by God’s Spirit in a series of acts as supernatural as the virgin birth and the resurrection of the Son of God themselves — it is a supernatural work through and through. To the Calvinist, thus, the Church of God is as direct a creation of God as the first creation itself. In this supernaturalism, the whole thought and feeling and life of the Calvinist is steeped. Without it there can be no Calvinism, for it is just this that is Calvinism."
— .. , “Present Day Attitude to Calvinism” in (1909)

https://www.newhopefairfax.org/files/Warfield_Present_Day.pdf

In Him,


Bill

Do you want to be a Calvinist?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Good day, Spiritual Jew


All I can say is wow.... talk about an ahistorical look at Calvinism.

Is there anything I said that you would actually like to address?

You do know that Calvin himself had a school that trained missionaries to go into France

So? Why should this mean anything to me as it relates to this discussion? I never said that Calvinists never evangelize, did I? No, I did not. So, what is your point? I'm going by what the doctrine can influence people to do or not to do and I'm not saying that is the case for everyone, including even Calvin himself.

You do know that William Carey, Johnathan Edwards, CH Spurgeon (the prince of Preachers), George Whitfield were all Calvinist right?

Yes. So? Let's talk about what I said and not these fallible human beings. I have no interest in talking about these guys themselves, but rather what they taught.

You do know that Evangelism Explosion was a class developed and taught by Calvinist right?

Evangelism Explosion (EE) is a Christian evangelistic discipleship ministry and training program.

Goodness gracious. I was not talking about this. I did not claim that there are no Calvinists who evangelize. What does this have to do with anything I said? What is the motive for evangelism from the Calvinist perspective?

Unregenerate men are child of wrath by nature, no one should be surprised when pagans act like pagans, and they are God haters.

It is right here:

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

The context of that passage in Matthew has to do with a judgement Jesus made against the them that killed the Prophets. So I am not sure what the question is or why you think it is related in any way to men loving darkness and hating light (by Choice)

In Him,

Bill

If you read Romans 1:18-32 you can see that people are not born as fools who are vain in their imaginations and exchange the truth for a lie. Paul talked about people who became that way. So, how does that happen exactly? Doesn't your doctrine teach that people are totally depraved even from birth? Paul certainly didn't believe that since he said only some people become that way. Also, can you please address what I said in post #6? You didn't address one single thing I said there.