Avoiding Persecution

[Walk together]

Manny Christion's claim that if Questioned and probed regarding if they are a Christion will stand fast and admit their Christionalety even if it is considered a punishable offence by their captors. So I was wondering why would one admit to being a Christian if it meant their life was at stake wouldn't God understand if a person was to lie/deceive their captor in order to save their own life or even the lives of possibly their own families. After all we all are sinners and tell lies surely one moor lie to save your neck won't matter, will it? What do you think?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Manny Christion's claim that if Questioned and probed regarding if they are a Christion will stand fast and admit their Christionalety even if it is considered a punishable offence by their captors. So I was wondering why would one admit to being a Christian if it meant their life was at stake wouldn't God understand if a person was to lie/deceive their captor in order to save their own life or even the lives of possibly their own families. After all we all are sinners and tell lies surely one moor lie to save your neck won't matter, will it? What do you think?

This is what is meant by "taking up his cross and follow Him".
Blessings

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[pdudgeon]

No, it is never, ever right to deny being a follower of Jesus.

That is what Judas did: he thought of himself first, and Jesus last.

To deny being a follower of Jesus is wrong, no matter what it costs you.

 

[pdudgeon]

Manny Christion's claim that if Questioned and probed regarding if they are a Christion will stand fast and admit their Christionalety even if it is considered a punishable offence by their captors. So I was wondering why would one admit to being a Christian if it meant their life was at stake wouldn't God understand if a person was to lie/deceive their captor in order to save their own life or even the lives of possibly their own families. After all we all are sinners and tell lies surely one moor lie to save your neck won't matter, will it? What do you think?

I think that is exactly the kind of argument that Satan would approve of, and that Judas fell for.
Why anyone would trade one more day on Earth for an eternity in hell is beyond me.

 

[Walk together]

I think that is exactly the kind of argument that Satan would approve of, and that Judas fell for.
Why anyone would trade one more day on Earth for an eternity in hell is beyond me.

Would you force anyone to tell the truth about anything if it was going to cost them their lives? God has said that he sees all sin the same way so lying about not putting your hand in the cooky jar is the same as lying about believing in Jesus it's just a lie and both are equal in God's eyes. Will God send us to hell for stealing a cooky?

 

[Walk together]

I believe that there is a sin that will guarantee the full and total rath of God and that will apply to the ones that blaspheme God and his son and put Christians to death as they have sinned in the most horrific way not committing an earthly sin but attacking God through his believers this is the deepest and most disrespectful way to commit a spiritual sin that can not be forgiven and requires eternal death. An earthly sin can always be forgiven as our creator and holy father God and his most loved Son Jesus has mercy on us and is always ready to forgive his loving children.

 

[pdudgeon]

Would you force anyone to tell the truth about anything if it was going to cost them their lives? God has said that he sees all sin the same way so lying about not putting your hand in the cooky jar is the same as lying about believing in Jesus it's just a lie and both are equal in God's eyes. Will God send us to hell for stealing a cooky?

You are missing a very, very important point.
When we become Christians, we give our very lives into God's hands, in the same exact way that Christ gave His own earthly life into the hands of God, our Father.

**There is no greater gift of love and complete trust that we can offer to God, than to surrender ourselves into His hands.**
Please, I beg of you, do not miss this point!
All the Saints in Heaven know this, because they have made this beautiful sacrifice, every single one of them.
All the angels in Heaven know this as well, because they love God, and they serve Him gladly.
To be able to give to God the precious gift of complete love and devotion is the ultimate expression of our love, here on Earth.

 

[pdudgeon]

To continue that thought above;
to avoid persecution here on Earth is NOT the goal of a Christian.
It was the goal of Judas.

 

[eleos1954]

Manny Christion's claim that if Questioned and probed regarding if they are a Christion will stand fast and admit their Christionalety even if it is considered a punishable offence by their captors. So I was wondering why would one admit to being a Christian if it meant their life was at stake wouldn't God understand if a person was to lie/deceive their captor in order to save their own life or even the lives of possibly their own families. After all we all are sinners and tell lies surely one moor lie to save your neck won't matter, will it? What do you think?

Jesus (who is/was God) is our example and never sinned, even faced with death, lying is a sin.

Because He did is the reason we will be found not guilty (even though we are) of our sins .... it is His righteousness and perfection that God sees ... not ours. Ahhh the grace of God!

We are not to practice sin.

To desire to continue in sin (or think it's ok) shows a misunderstanding of this abundant grace and a lends itself to contempt for Jesus' sacrifice.

 

[Walk together]

To desire to continue in sin (or think it's ok) shows a misunderstanding of this abundant grace and a lends itself to contempt for Jesus' sacrifice.

Jesus said follow me to the cross not follow me and be on the cross. In other words, study and understand him all the way to his last day on earth. Jesus died for us we do not have to die for him. Try and be like Jesus in life not in death.

 

[eleos1954]

Jesus said follow me to the cross not follow me and be on the cross. In other words, study and understand him all the way to his last day on earth. Jesus died for us we do not have to die for him. Try and be like Jesus in life not in death.

well no we don't have to die for Him ... but some have and will find themselves in that situation

contempt is disregard for something that should be taken into account,

If you take something into account, or take account of something, you consider it when you are thinking about a situation or deciding what to do ... and yeah ... some have and will be in that position.

Jesus said, "Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of life" (Revelation 2:10).

 

[Walk together]

Jesus said, "Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of life"

I think Jesus means be faithful in him not Jesus being faithful in us as we are the sinners that sin regularly so God and Jesus can not have faith in us only forgive us each day but we can have faith in them as they do not sin. Maybe I,m wrong but that is my definition of the meaning.

 

[eleos1954]

I think Jesus means be faithful in him not Jesus being faithful in us as we are the sinners that sin regularly so God and Jesus can not have faith in us only forgive us each day but we can have faith in them as they do not sin. Maybe I,m wrong but that is my definition of the meaning.

We often draw a distinction between faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus. We are to have the faith of Jesus. What is that faith? The faith of Jesus is that He has come to us where we are.

That, infinitely pure and holy as He is, and sinful degraded and lost as we are, by His Holy Spirit He will willingly dwell with us and in us in order to save us, purify us and make us holy.

The faith of Jesus is that God must dwell with us and in us, in order that we shall be holy or pure at all.

Not sure I explained that very well.

 

[Walk together]

The faith of Jesus is that He has come to us where we are.

The only thing I can think of that may fit your description of the faith of Jesus is Jesus can have faith in knowing that there are and will be names in the book of life. Just as Jesus can have faith in knowing that there are people that will not be in the book of life. Jesus can have faith in his Father God as we can as Jesus does not know when he will be returning to us for his second coming no one knows the hour or the day, not even the Son. So Jesus must have faith in his father as the very definition of faith is to believe without knowing. Another word is to trust, trust in God. May I say this and that is any person that gives their life up for death in the name of Jesus has my total and greatest respect and admiration but I do think it is an unnecessary act to give.

 

[eleos1954]

The only thing I can think of that may fit your description of the faith of Jesus is Jesus can have faith in knowing that there are and will be names in the book of life. Just as Jesus can have faith in knowing that there are people that will not be in the book of life. Jesus can have faith in his Father God as we can as Jesus does not know when he will be returning to us for his second coming no one knows the hour or the day, not even the Son. So Jesus must have faith in his father as the very definition of faith is to believe without knowing. Another word is to trust, trust in God. May I say this and that is any person that gives their life up for death in the name of Jesus has my total and greatest respect and admiration but I do think it is an unnecessary act to give.

We are persuaded or convinced to have faith, and it is because of the substantive working of Christ in us. We would never have it by our own efforts.

I do a mental exercise sometimes ... when in His Word it says "faith in Jesus" I substitute "faith of Jesus" ... like in the book of Galatians ... it's interesting to do ;o)

1 John 3:16-18

By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

Some have and will find themselves in that situation, some not. If faced with renouncing Jesus or death ... then what does one choose? (rhetorical) Seems we should be prepared to do so.

John
36“Lord, where are You going?” Simon Peter asked.

Jesus answered, “Where I am going, you cannot follow Me now, but you will follow later.”37“Lord,” said Peter, “why can’t I follow You now? I will lay down my life for You.”

38“Will you lay down your life for Me?” Jesus replied. “Truly, truly, I tell you, before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.

 

[Walk together]

We are persuaded or convinced to have faith, and it is because of the substantive working of Christ in us. We would never have it by our own efforts.

I do a mental exercise sometimes ... when in His Word it says "faith in Jesus" I substitute "faith of Jesus" ... like in the book of Galatians ... it's interesting to do ;o)

1 John 3:16-18

By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

Some have and will find themselves in that situation, some not. If faced with renouncing Jesus or death ... then what does one choose? (rhetorical) Seems we should be prepared to do so.

John
36“Lord, where are You going?” Simon Peter asked.

Jesus answered, “Where I am going, you cannot follow Me now, but you will follow later.”37“Lord,” said Peter, “why can’t I follow You now? I will lay down my life for You.”

38“Will you lay down your life for Me?” Jesus replied. “Truly, truly, I tell you, before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.

Thank you for pointing out these lovely verses and I do appreciate the meaning of what is said. May I give some examples of my own? 1. The ten comandments have no such request. 2. If one was to denounce Jesus to their captors then that person would only be lying to the lowest form of garbage on earth and that is no loss it's not like lying to a good person and telling them Jesus is not true as that would be a great sin attempting to deceive one of God's children from believing. It would be paramount to be giving the death sentence to that person by attempting to separate them from God and yet you believe we can inflict the death sentence on ourselves by lying to an extreme criminal to save our own life. 3. Even if we did lie to the criminal God knows that we still really believe in his Son Jesus God will know the reason for our lying. 4. Manny people have and do and will continue to give their lives in the name of Jesus but on the day that this takes place for the ones that are questioned many of them have already given up on life and will take the opportunity to die as they may feel the world is not worth living in and accept this form of death over suicide. and many that claim to be willing to give up their lives for Jesus will find it too hard at the very moment of their final decision and denounce Jesus at the last moment. Having said all that yes there are some that will see it through and die making the ultimate sacrifice in the name of Jesus and give their life rather than denounce the truth and that is what Jesus did for us all give his life up and faced the cross as a man crying to his father for relief to let us know that his suffering was real and not covered by supernatural powers from God but left to take the full brunt of the pain and humiliation as he slowly died on the cross the most remarkable thing is that Jesus knew it was coming for many years and gave all his love to us as he marched towards his own brutal death. I cry for Jesus and love him dearly for he is the one and only being that has willingly laid down his life for all of us to benefit from and I can openly admit that I can not have the corage nor the motive to follow Jesus any further than the foot of the cross. God bless all of you that see it differently.

 

[eleos1954]

Thank you for pointing out these lovely verses and I do appreciate the meaning of what is said. May I give some examples of my own? 1. The ten comandments have no such request. 2. If one was to denounce Jesus to their captors then that person would only be lying to the lowest form of garbage on earth and that is no loss it's not like lying to a good person and telling them Jesus is not true as that would be a great sin attempting to deceive one of God's children from believing. It would be paramount to be giving the death sentence to that person by attempting to separate them from God and yet you believe we can inflict the death sentence on ourselves by lying to an extreme criminal to save our own life. 3. Even if we did lie to the criminal God knows that we still really believe in his Son Jesus God will know the reason for our lying. 4. Manny people have and do and will continue to give their lives in the name of Jesus but on the day that this takes place for the ones that are questioned many of them have already given up on life and will take the opportunity to die as they may feel the world is not worth living in and accept this form of death over suicide. and many that claim to be willing to give up their lives for Jesus will find it too hard at the very moment of their final decision and denounce Jesus at the last moment. Having said all that yes there are some that will see it through and die making the ultimate sacrifice in the name of Jesus and give their life rather than denounce the truth and that is what Jesus did for us all give his life up and faced the cross as a man crying to his father for relief to let us know that his suffering was real and not covered by supernatural powers from God but left to take the full brunt of the pain and humiliation as he slowly died on the cross the most remarkable thing is that Jesus knew it was coming for many years and gave all his love to us as he marched towards his own brutal death. I cry for Jesus and love him dearly for he is the one and only being that has willingly laid down his life for all of us to benefit from and I can openly admit that I can not have the corage nor the motive to follow Jesus any further than the foot of the cross. God bless all of you that see it differently.

the law written on our hearts (Jer 31).

The ten comandments have no such request. 2.

The Ninth of the Ten Commandments is “You shall not give false witness against your neighbor.”

 

[Walk together]

The Ninth of the Ten Commandments is “You shall not give false witness against your neighbor.”

That is so as to not get your brothers and sisters in trouble by lying. Denying Jesus gets no one in false trouble it only saves your neck.

 

[mikeforjesus]

If you deny you can die they can kill you and you would die as an unbeliever God requires people to confess Him as God required you to be tested to show much you value Him or that was His plan for your life to witness where He provides ability so you must. God can forgive sometimes if He thinks person deserves chance like Peter denial but one is not promised opportunity.

 

[Walk together]

If you deny you can die they can kill you and you would die as an unbeliever God requires people to confess Him as God tests how much you value Him and to tell to people. God can forgive sometimes if he thinks person deserves chance like Peter denial but one is not promised opportunity.

The only ones that God will put to the test are the ones that claim to be willing to do that. I make no such claim so God knows my stance on the situation there is nothing to test as I would only do as I have admitted openly to. If I was to say I will give my life for the truth then I would be put to the test and surely fail as I would back out. So as it stands I am telling the truth by admitting openly that I am willing to lie.