Authority

[sunlover1]

Matthew 28
Then Jesus came to them and said,
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Luke 10
Look! I have given you the authority to trample on snakes and scorpions
and to destroy all the enemy's power, and nothing will ever hurt you.

 

[jckstraw72]

Christ shares, or exercises, His authority through the Church!

 

[sunlover1]

Christ shares, or exercises, His authority through the Church!

Howdy... thank you jckstraw!

When you say "shares" do you mean that as in
a sort of mantle passing??

Could you give some examples?

 

[Eucharisted]

It's funny that some Christians don't believe in the intercession of the saints yet believe exorcists can exorcise people. It's like they're dividing God's power and using sola scriptura to back it up.

 

[Uphill Battle]

It's funny that some Christians don't believe in the intercession of the saints yet believe exorcists can exorcise people. It's like they're dividing God's power and using sola scriptura to back it up.

that's a strange leap of topic to take a crack at sola scriptura.

 

[sunlover1]

It's funny that some Christians don't believe in the intercession of the saints yet believe exorcists can exorcise people. It's like they're dividing God's power and using sola scriptura to back it up.

HUH? Where did that come from? lol.
Shoot Eucharisted, I DO believe in intercession of all saints.
We are even called to intercede on behalf of all of the saints as well.
Maybe you could clarify what you're talking about because I am
having a hard time following it. I'm sure it's me and not you.

that's a strange leap of topic to take a crack at sola scriptura.

Welcome to CF!
You remind me of someone I used to know.

 

[Eucharisted]

HUH? Where did that come from? lol.
Shoot Eucharisted, I DO believe in intercession of all saints.
We are even called to intercede on behalf of all of the saints as well.
Maybe you could clarify what you're talking about because I am
having a hard time following it. I'm sure it's me and not you.

I'm talking about the illogically of certain Christians, not specifically you.

But to clarify: God gives His power to exorcists to exorcise, as it is really He who exorcises. The exorcists are just His vessels. The same goes for saints; they're just His vessels of mercy and grace. So it's like, in saying exorcises can exorcise but intercessors can't intercede, some are, in a sense, dividing God's power, the division of which is mostly supported solely by Scripture.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Welcome to CF!
You remind me of someone I used to know.

howdy sunlover. Good to see some of the regulars are still around. How long HAVE I been gone?

I'm talking about the illogically of certain Christians, not specifically you.

But to clarify: God gives His power to exorcists to exorcise, as it is really He who exorcises. The exorcists are just His vessels. The same goes for saints; they're just His vessels of mercy and grace. So it's like, in saying exorcises can exorcise but intercessors can't intercede, some are, in a sense, dividing God's power, the division of which is mostly supported solely by Scripture.

that is assuming, of course, that the doctrine of Saints who have left this world, have been given the power to intercede. It's not about possibility, God can do whatever he darn well pleases.

it's worth examining whether or not he DID do something though, as opposed to assuming he did, because he can.

 

[sunlover1]

I'm talking about the illogically of certain Christians, not specifically you.

It's alright Eucharisted, I am not offended, just trying to put
together what you're talking about as compared to my two
passages. (One connection i see is that I am SS)

But to clarify: God gives His power to exorcists to exorcise, as it is really He who exorcises. The exorcists are just His vessels. The same goes for saints; they're just His vessels of mercy and grace. So it's like, in saying exorcises can exorcise but intercessors can't intercede, some are, in a sense, dividing God's power, the division of which is mostly supported solely by Scripture.

[/QUOTE]
I see much more clearly now.
Thank you
Here's how I understand it...
He gives all of us a deposit of His spirit.
We are ALL called to be intercessors
And of course we all have power to trample
the snakes and scorpions and over all of
the power of the enemy.

(Hope we're on the same page,.. not sure)

 

[sunlover1]

howdy sunlover. Good to see some of the regulars are still around. How long HAVE I been gone?

Not sure Ubee.
Haven't been back that long myself.
Having more fun nowadays though
I think you'll be happy here

that is assuming, of course, that the doctrine of Saints who have left this world, have been given the power to intercede.

That's what I was missing.
Hmm.. sorry Eucharisted.
I did not realize that you meant
dead folks (well, "physically" dead)
That changes my answer

 

[Eucharisted]

God can do whatever he darn well pleases.

Yep, including working through the saints.

 

[Eucharisted]

That's what I was missing.
Hmm.. sorry Eucharisted.
I did not realize that you meant
dead folks (well, "physically" dead)
That changes my answer

Ah, what's your new answer?

 

[sunlover1]

Yep, including working through the saints.

Yes... anything He wants.
Even including working through saints.
(we have different definition of "saints"... figures )

Ah, what's your new answer?

My new answer is that I have no idea if people can interceed for us
after they've died.
But this threads surely not about the dearly departed.
This one is about authority.
I guess that's why I was a bit confused earlier...

 

[Mr Dave]

Yes... anything He wants.
Even including working through saints.
(we have different definition of "saints"... figures )


My new answer is that I have no idea if people can interceed for us
after they've died.
But this threads surely not about the dearly departed.
This one is about authority.
I guess that's why I was a bit confused earlier...

I'm with you, making the distinction between those dead and those alive.
We probably can ask for intercession (Saul could call on Samuel's help in 1 Sam 28) but that doesn't mean we should (1 Samuel 28:15)

As for the OP, authority. Good post, looking at the first verse I'd have said hhat a bid part of the authority is that to forgive sin, an authority that resides with God alone. I think the second verse backs this up (sin being the "enemy's power" although this extends it to more 'practical' authority of a return the effective dominion over God's creation that is given to Adam in Genesis.
That's my tuppence for the time being. I'll be back on later today.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Yep, including working through the saints.

reposting what you seemed to have missed.

it's worth examining whether or not he DID do something though, as opposed to assuming he did, because he can

 

[sunlover1]

As for the OP, authority. Good post, looking at the first verse I'd have said hhat a bid part of the authority is that to forgive sin, an authority that resides with God alone. I think the second verse backs this up (sin being the "enemy's power" although this extends it to more 'practical' authority of a return the effective dominion over God's creation that is given to Adam in Genesis.
That's my tuppence for the time being. I'll be back on later today.

You've really said a mouthful, Mr. Dave.
How much authority do you believe we, as Christians, possess,
and how might that manifest?
IYO...

 

[jckstraw72]

Matthew 28
Then Jesus came to them and said,
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Luke 10
Look! I have given you the authority to trample on snakes and scorpions
and to destroy all the enemy's power, and nothing will ever hurt you.

well Christ is our ultimate authority, but He has also ordained for their to be bishops and priests as authorities. He is the only priest of Christianity, but He shares His priesthood with our priests who act as His hands and feet

 

[sunlover1]

Hi jckstraw

well Christ is our ultimate authority,

Amen. The throne is a dead giveaway though lol.

but He has also ordained for their to be bishops and priests as authorities.

So iyo, that passage in Luke 10 is not for "us"?

He is the only priest of Christianity,

Why are we called priests then?

 

[Mr Dave]

You've really said a mouthful, Mr. Dave.
How much authority do you believe we, as Christians, possess,
and how might that manifest?
IYO...

Good question...hmmm.

Let me think 'out loud.' Not sure where this is going yet, hehe.

Rom. 13:1, There is not authority except from God. and Col 1:16, God created all authorities.
Jesus gave his disciples authority, sot as well as showing Jesus divinity, the disciples are given back a part of what was lost in the fall, or at least if it wasn't lost, then man's authority on Earth is re-asserted (cf. Gen 1:28).
Jesus taught a new teaching, which he did so with authority, Mark 1:27.
The Lord gave the apostles authority to build people up or bring people down (2 Cor. 10:8; 13:10). This to me seems to be in teaching, so it would seem that (in at least one aspect) the authority given to Christians is that authority to teach about Jesus. Jesus called the apostles, and he calls all of us (be that to ordained ministry or to Christianity as a lay-man), so we too are given authority by Jesus to some degree to teach about him, and to build people up or bring them down. As would naturally follow, all Christians are therefore given great responsibility on behalf of Christ. This itself reminds me of Luke 10 when Jesus sends the 70 out in front of him. The first impression the people have of Jesus comes through those sent by Jesus on his behalf, they too had great authority and responsibility given by Jesus.

I think this may be part of what is meant in the verse you give from Luke 10, about authority to trample on snakes etc... which comes on the joyful return of the 70. There is re-assertion of the authority given in Genesis about dominion over God's creation, and as such, great responsibility with that, although I don't think this re-assertion is the thrust of the verse, just an extra way of reading into it. I think the mention of the snakes etc... is a reference (easily understood by the 1st Century jews) to the OT, Deut 8:15, gives the impression of Jesus (again asserting his divinity) protecting his followers as He protected his people in the Exodus, as hard as things are, Jesus is there givin us protection and continually giving us authority over the rest of creation. Psalm 91:11-13, gives the idea that even with God's authority imparted through us, we are watched over and in the shelter of the Most High. With the authority to teach of Jesus and proclaim that he can forgive sin, this isn't always an easy task, but God is continually watching over us with care.

Here ends today's ramblings

 

[Yarddog]

Matthew 28
Then Jesus came to them and said,
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Luke 10
Look! I have given you the authority to trample on snakes and scorpions
and to destroy all the enemy's power, and nothing will ever hurt you.

We all have the authority to do what God called us, individually, to do. This calling may be reflected in a different manner in each person.