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A. believer said:Hi Matt,
I think that if the original poster answers your question, he'll be cited again for debating. Perhaps you could invite him to take the discussion to another forum such as CARM or NTRMin.
i believe it was passed on to every believer, as every believer is a preist.InquisitorKind said:Your question assumes that this aspect of the disciples' authority was passed on to their successors. I reject that assumption as false.
~Matt
Lotar said:1 Timothy 2:2
for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
Carlos Vigil said:Dear Matt,
Which elements?...( of 2Tim. 2:2 )
(1) "the things you have HEARD FROM ME"
(2) "HAND ON...(entrust) (commit) (transmit);... to trustworthy men.
(3) "who will be... ABLE to TEACH... others.
This passage REVEALS APOSTOLIC TRADITION caught red-handed!
as clearly as a snapshot of one runner handing the BATON to another
relay runner.
shall we shoot those runners for practicing "the abominable ;APOSTOLIC TRADITION?"
For the LOVE OF TRUTH and the edification of the brothers.
Carlos.
Your original question was about the authority to bind and loose. If passing on the authority of binding and loosing is based on the three elements you've outlined, why would any teaching Christian taught by other Christians be exempt from that authority?Carlos Vigil said:Which elements?...( of 2Tim. 2:2 )
(1) "the things you have HEARD FROM ME"
(2) "HAND ON...(entrust) (commit) (transmit);... to trustworthy men.
(3) "who will be... ABLE to TEACH... others.
12volt_man said:I used to go around all the time saying "I bind the Devil in Jesus name".
InquisitorKind said:Your original question was about the authority to bind and loose. If passing on the authority of binding and loosing is based on the three elements you've outlined, why would any teaching Christian taught by other Christians be exempt from that authority?
Again, if you would like to continue discussion, I would recommend to you the site I sent through PM. I don't want you to get cited for debating violations.
~Matt
12volt_man said:I'm a little embarrassed to admit this but when I was a new Christian, I got sucked into the WoF movement and was taught that this passage referred to binding and casting out demons.
I used to go around all the time saying "I bind the Devil in Jesus name".
I know it was stupid but I didn't know any better.
tigersnare said:I guess next we'll have to define "apostle", then "apostolic succession", and then whatever "apostolic tradition" is.......
That doesn't answer the question I asked.Carlos Vigil said:there are many more scriptures that show Authority being being transfered
than what I have outlined.
How is this relevant?about exemption;..."Not every one who says "lord,lord" ( I'm a christian, I'm a christian) ...shall enter the kingdon of God , but ONLY the one who DOES the the will of my Father in heaven."...Authority and obedience walk together....he who is faithful in little things will be entrusted with...
the sole source of authority is Jesus Christ.(Mat. 28:18)
and He brought THE NEW COVENANT.... whoever Lives and teaches the NEW COVENANT,to him God entrusts Authority....in common language; ARE YOU UNDER CONTRACT WITH GOD? take out the contract, read what He commands us to DO.
How are you defining binding and loosing authority? You certainly don't see the common Roman Catholic understanding in this passage.Binding & Loosing Authority can be seen in John 14:21 "He who OBEYS the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father and I too will love him and REVEAL myself to him."
You would be the first Roman Catholic to document this. What's your supporting evidence?The Patristic fathers exercized this Authority when they formally acknowledged the doctrine of Papal Supremacy in the second century.
Carlos Vigil said:What do you think?...
is it better to; (A)define the race ...or to
(B) run the race ?
BBAS 64 said:A race that is not defined can not be run?
BBAS
You should become a protestant.Carlos Vigil said:Dear BBAS64,
The first thought that comes to my mind is;
"All who are LED by THE SPIRIT OF GOD are sons of God."(Rom. 8:14... and
"The things you have heard from me through many witnesses you must hand on to trustworthy men who will be able to teach others." (2 tim. 2:2
Does "being led by the HOLY SPIRIT" and introducing to others the same
process reveal any aspect of "THE RACE" to you?
a brother IN CHRIST
Carlos
Carlos,Carlos Vigil said:What do you think?...
is it better to; (A)define the race ...or to
(B) run the race ?
backley said:Carlos,
I believe apostolic succession is supported by the scripture but there was a criteria that needed to be met.
Act 1:21 "Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us--
Act 1:22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us--one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."
It is pretty clear that apostolic succession is supported but can no longer take place because no one can meet the criteria. Hope this helps.
God Bless,
Thank you Backley for the Blessing
It does help some,but tell me...if we use those scriptures as the criteria for APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION (apostolic authority) Succession proceeds from authority, does it not?)
doesn't that criteria ELIMINATE St.Paul as AN APOSTLE?...since he did not accompany them at all from the baptism of John until His Ascension?
when, where and how did St. Paul get HIS APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY?
and was he and the other Apostles in accord?... "that they may be one..." (John17:11 ).....I believe that down through the centuries, THE ONE TRUE FAITH that Jesus enjoyed, that He transfered to His Apostles, which THEY OBEYED, and transfered to other TRUSTWORTHY MEN, has given and does still give Apostolic Aithority to all who obey Him, to this very day.
If APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY has ended, then there is NO AUTHORITY on earth
and we can all do as we please. any body can start any thing they dream up
and give it a "dignified name" employ cheer leaders to drum up recruits and get large numbers of poor gillible souls and teach every wind of doctrine.But
God will say "DEPART FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY, I NEVER KNEW YOU."
isn't APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY is on earth to CLEARLY REVEAL THE "HARD AND NARROW WAY THAT LEADS TO LIFE ? doesn't "Apostolic" mean "sent by the
the Holy Spirit?"..... under what authority is YOUR CHURCH run?
is it Apostolic Authority?.....
if we do not submit to those Shephards who are called and submit, then are we not in danger of being "these people who honor me with their lips but their heart is far from me?" ...are we not in danger of "giving allegiance to the prince of the air , that spirit who is even now at work among the rebellious"?
IN THE LOVE OF CHRIST & FOR THE LOVE OF TRUTH,for the brotherhood,
Carlos
(I suppose this means I am banned from P/R/E for ever)
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