Aussies converting to Islam.

Icystwolf · Feb 20, 2004

I think that what crashedman said earlier is spot on. It provides answers and stability. I think what puts it above Christainity (which IMHO also provides answers and stability) is that these days it's "cool" to be anything but Christian.

I think not. Islam does not provide answers. Let me ask you this, where in the Koran does it say, a martyr recieves 72 virgins? And if women are "in some islamic practises" have no soul, does this not contradict the fact that mohummed's daughter lead a whole army to battle?

Also, why were books on the rest of the books of Mohummed burnt after he died?

Could you answer those questions for me, before we continue a bit further!

If you have faith in one of the other belief systems, and you still to it, people will respect you.

I'm sorry, that isn't Christianity. Jesus never recieved respect because faith in himself, ie, God.

Let me ask you another Question, why do people suffer, why doesn't God end all the pain?

If you'er a christian, you're an idiot who can't think for himself. That's partly our fault. We've let too many hypocrits into our churches, and IMHO there are too many people calling themselves christians simply because they were raised hearing about Jesus once a year and damaging our reputation further.

I agree, that there are a lot of hypocrites in our churches today, infact I'm one of them. I'm surprised that you're perfect...

I personally believe that you have a strong knowledge of Islam, however though I may disagree with some of Bev's comments because I too have muslim friends at uni, I personally don't agree that calling her an idiot is called for.

There is public anger over Lebanese muslims, even the police want to find every opportunity to belt them over the head. I think, yes, some of the comments are over-rated, however if muslims continue to support lebanese muslims, on radio or on t.v. obviously, you have to let them off.....

My muslim friends don't support lebanese muslims....which in my opinion, puts them off the clear.

Just as much as Bev's anger is directed towards muslims, is my anger directed at Liberal christians and cults.

Icystwolf · Feb 20, 2004

Marissa said:
Oh, and since any opinion seems to need to be clarified let me assure you I am christian.

I was raised originally in a baptist church. When we moved to Brisbane we joined a general Christian Pentecostal Chruch, then when I was 12 switched to a large AOG church.

I was saved at 18 (on Good Friday of all days) after years of struggle with believing. I was attending a Penial (It's a pentecostal church), until moving back to Australia. Currently no church, but I am looking and can't wait to get back to Sunday night worship services.

We have uni-church from 6:30 onwards. It's in UNSW. It's part of the Sydney Anglican church.(No liberal christians)

If you want, you can come a long. I can guarentee you, it's well worth it.

When they talk about issues, the allow room for debates. We've often had debates on the spot, with students who think the preacher made a mistake. Often theres a mis-understanding from the students side....however there are a lot of cases of where the preacher made a mistake, and they go around the next sermon correcting their mistakes.

It's a very dynamic environment....it's there if you want to know the truth, the full truth and nothing but the truth.

I must admit I got slammed on wednesday night, for mis-reading the scriptures....I so deserved that....lol......

Yours in Christ
Jim

Marissa · Feb 20, 2004

:o

whoops

Marissa · Feb 20, 2004

Icystwolf said:
I think not. Islam does not provide answers. Let me ask you this, where in the Koran does it say, a martyr recieves 72 virgins? And if women are "in some islamic practises" have no soul, does this not contradict the fact that mohummed's daughter lead a whole army to battle?

I don't think the answers most people are looking for are whether or not one receives 72 virgins when they die. Most are more concerned about why they're here, how to act when we're here, and why we should act that way.

Also, why were books on the rest of the books of Mohummed burnt after he died?

I don't know. I haven't looked that deeply of the origins of Islam so much as how it's interacting with todays world.

We were asked why some Aussies were converting to Islam. Not whether the Islam of today is the Islam Mohummad intended.

I'm sorry, that isn't Christianity. Jesus never recieved respect because faith in himself, ie, God.

Where did I say that was christainity? I said society as a whole respects when people stick to their faith, so long as that faith isn't christainity.

Let me ask you another Question, why do people suffer, why doesn't God end all the pain?

What does this have to do with the discussion?

I agree, that there are a lot of hypocrites in our churches today, infact I'm one of them. I'm surprised that you're perfect...

Being imperfect is one thing. Saying one thing and purposely, continuously and deliberately doing the opposite is quite another. I'm not perfect, but I'm not telling everyone else they have to be either.

I personally believe that you have a strong knowledge of Islam, however though I may disagree with some of Bev's comments because I too have muslim friends at uni, I personally don't agree that calling her an idiot is called for.

*shrug*

I'm well known for my bluntness. I won't apologise. I'd much rather people tell me what they think of me to my face than behind my back. I extend the same courtesy to others. Though at the moment my opinion is limited to this thread.

If I realise I came to the wrong conclusion later that I was wrong I'll apologise.

There is public anger over Lebanese muslims, even the police want to find every opportunity to belt them over the head. I think, yes, some of the comments are over-rated, however if muslims continue to support lebanese muslims, on radio or on t.v. obviously, you have to let them off.....

Do you really believe it's all lebanese muslims behind the trouble? I can't argue that some are a problem, but do we really have to brush every Lebanese muslim with the same brush?

That's pure racism and I can't accept it.

*edited 'cause my english tonight is shocking.

Icystwolf · Feb 20, 2004

Marissa said:
I don't think the answers most people are looking for are whether or not one receives 72 virgins when they die. Most are more concerned about why they're here, how to act when we're here, and why we should act that way.

Well, I'll give you an answer, most of islam today, have ideas based on concept, rather than scripture. The concept of heaven is described in the koran as being heavenly and everything you can wish for....thus the idea of the 72woman...is was made up somewhere...I'm no islam expert either...so I'll leave it there.

I don't know. I haven't looked that deeply of the origins of Islam so much as how it's interacting with todays world.

We were asked why some Aussies were converting to Islam. Not whether the Islam of today is the Islam Mohummad intended.

But would you not find it more helpful to understand the origins and the basics that make up islam today? On T.V(this is where I agree with you that media is brain washing), it seems all muslims are connected with one religion...however, the origins of islam, after mohummed's death, there was a huge split that caused a civil war.

One group named shi'ites, believed the decendents of mohummed should be the spiritual leader, the other group(forgot it's name) believed anyone who is spiritual enough can become the spiritual leader.

However theres no mention of a major split in islam, and neither do the media portray that even existed....

Where did I say that was christainity? I said society as a whole respects when people stick to their faith, so long as that faith isn't christainity.

What does this have to do with the discussion?

Christians are not respected, at least most people...they find fundamentalists as selfish and gay haters....which isn't true. They class fundamentalists in the same class as extremists.

Being imperfect is one thing. Saying one thing and purposely, continuously and deliberately doing the opposite is quite another. I'm not perfect, but I'm not telling everyone else they have to be either.

I see your point in that...I would think, I have the same problem when it comes to people in protestant churches catholic bashing, because a catholic basher told them to.....

*shrug*

I'm well known for my bluntness. I won't apologise. I'd much rather people tell me what they think of me to my face than behind my back. I extend the same courtesy to others. Though at the moment my opinion is limited to this thread.

If I realise I came to the wrong conclusion later that I was wrong I'll apologise.

Well, you'll be happy to know, bluntness isn't a sin just so long as you've got good backing. There are some people however who cannot stand bluntness, and I think as a Christian, you need to respect that.

A Christian friend of mine became more depressed after another Christian bluntly told him, he's a failure. And myself and the church leader had to fix up the mess the other Christian did. After a month of forgiveness from the depressed person, the other Christian did it again...now the depressed person has claimed that that Christian is his arch.

Do you really believe it's all lebanese muslims behind the trouble? I can't argue that some are a problem, but do we really have to brush every Lebanese muslim with the same brush?

That's pure racism and I can't accept it.

I don't, but when most are problematic it's by far not helpful to just isolate the majority of the lebanese as a minority.

My aim isn't the mothers or kids who are lebanese muslims, rather, I'm refering to those who like going on nice cars and throw phone books through windows.

*edited 'cause my english tonight is shocking.

So is mine...

Marissa · Feb 20, 2004

Icystwolf said:
But would you not find it more helpful to understand the origins and the basics that make up islam today?

Click to expand...

To an extent, yes. But to a greater extent what it is today is more important to determine how the religion is interacting with the world. If you only have time to focus on one, the latter is going to be more beneficial.

On T.V(this is where I agree with you that media is brain washing), it seems all muslims are connected with one religion...however, the origins of islam, after mohummed's death, there was a huge split that caused a civil war.

One group named shi'ites, believed the decendents of mohummed should be the spiritual leader, the other group(forgot it's name) believed anyone who is spiritual enough can become the spiritual leader.

However theres no mention of a major split in islam, and neither do the media portray that even existed....

Click to expand...

I wonder if it's just our media that is guilty of this. Is the Islamic media as guilty of painting christians with one brush or do Muslims realise that we're even more split than they are? I wouldn't have a clue, but I've been curious since 9/11. It seems both countries are biased against each other for the same reason.

Lies and half truths told by the media and the inability of the majority to see through the lies due to ignorance.

Christians are not respected, at least most people...they find fundamentalists as selfish and gay haters....which isn't true. They class fundamentalists in the same class as extremists.

Click to expand...

Well, I'm not too big a fan of fundamentalists myself. Extremist and fundamentalist aren't interchangable though I'll give you that. Fred Phelps is an extremist. I don't personally know any conservatives actually interested in seeing gay blood spilt in the streets.

It seems to me that Christians are some of the least respected folks in the community these days. Truly saddening when it should be the opposite.

Well, you'll be happy to know, bluntness isn't a sin just so long as you've got good backing. There are some people however who cannot stand bluntness, and I think as a Christian, you need to respect that.

Click to expand...

It seems I only lasted an hour on this anyhow. I've already apologised in another thread. I'll be blunt, but my opinions are never made out of spite or a desire to hurt and if I realise I'm addressing someone who will take my comments too much to heart I do try control myself better.

Probably something to work on but I've got bigger fish at the moment.

I don't, but when most are problematic it's by far not helpful to just isolate the majority of the lebanese as a minority.

My aim isn't the mothers or kids who are lebanese muslims, rather, I'm refering to those who like going on nice cars and throw phone books through windows.

Click to expand...

I think that it's dangerous not to make that clarification when talking about race. If we marginalise all lebanese muslims we'll get no where with the problem people. We need the help of those in their communities who don't agree to pull them into line and prevent others going down the same path.

KristianJ · Feb 20, 2004

Marissa said:
I think that what crashedman said earlier is spot on. It provides answers and stability. I think what puts it above Christainity (which IMHO also provides answers and stability) is that these days it's "cool" to be anything but Christian. If you have faith in one of the other belief systems, and you still to it, people will respect you. If you'er a christian, you're an idiot who can't think for himself. That's partly our fault. We've let too many hypocrits into our churches, and IMHO there are too many people calling themselves christians simply because they were raised hearing about Jesus once a year and damaging our reputation further.

Marissa, could you please clarify exactly what you're saying here, especially whose thoughts the reference I've highlighted in bold belong to. I think it could be read in a couple of different ways, and, although I have been quite disappointed by the way this thread has gone and the unfortunate consequences that have resulted, there might be a huge misunderstanding here. I am not an expert in Islam and intend not to forward an opinion until I've done enough research, but I'm quite interested to find out whether this paragraph was intended as a personal attack.

Thanks in advance

Marissa · Feb 20, 2004

It's my impression of what society on the whole thinks of Christians these days.

It's certainly not what I think of christians, nor is it directed to anyone in this thread. I'm a christian myself and I like to think I'm not so stupid.

KristianJ · Feb 20, 2004

Thanks Marissa.

Bevlina · Feb 20, 2004

Post 64#

Jim...."However, though i may disagree with some of bev's comments.....I personally don't agree calling her an idiot is called for"

Answer...marissa person.
*shrug*
I'm well known for my bluntness. I won't apologise.......if I realise I came to the wrong conclusion later that I was wrong I'll apologise"

crashedman · Feb 20, 2004

Marissa said:
To an extent, yes. But to a greater extent what it is today is more important to determine how the religion is interacting with the world. If you only have time to focus on one, the latter is going to be more beneficial.

I wonder if it's just our media that is guilty of this. Is the Islamic media as guilty of painting christians with one brush or do Muslims realise that we're even more split than they are? I wouldn't have a clue, but I've been curious since 9/11. It seems both countries are biased against each other for the same reason.

Click to expand...

Well, look at how fragmented Christianity is. I think the best solution would be for the UN to suggest closure to, or burn down all the churches, synagogues and mosques and start again with a new international belief system.

I think both the US and Iraq are just as bad as each other. Do you know what happens when two children argue over a football?

It takes a bigger and powerful being to bang their two heads together and burst their ball until they learn how to share.

Lies and half truths told by the media and the inability of the majority to see through the lies due to ignorance.

Click to expand...

Well, I don't care about the stinking war just as long as it's NIMBY.

Well, I'm not too big a fan of fundamentalists myself. Extremist and fundamentalist aren't interchangable though I'll give you that. Fred Phelps is an extremist. I don't personally know any conservatives actually interested in seeing gay blood spilt in the streets.

Click to expand...

Phelps might be one-of-a-kind, but at least he's got style with the way he does it.

And could someone tell him to change his headgear to either a turban or a shaved head, cos that stetson he's so proud of looks *very* gay!

Personally, I think that men like Falwell, Robertson, Hinn, Ovadal, and Paisley are all a bunch of greedy, impotent control freaks who have no more or less love or compassion than the Taliban. I don't see any love or peace in these guys one jot.

Check out this site, it is such a scream: http://www.christiantaliban.org

Crashedman

"It seems to me that Christians are some of the least respected folks in the community these days. Truly saddening when it should be the opposite."

Well, there are only two things that should be gotten rid of if we want peace in the world: money, matches and guns. And this is what we need to be doing with our children: take the matches and toy guns off them. THEN THROW AWAY OUR OWN MATCHES AND GUNS. Can't we learn from such a mistake ONCE and then move on as a race?

"It seems I only lasted an hour on this anyhow. I've already apologised in another thread. I'll be blunt, but my opinions are never made out of spite or a desire to hurt and if I realise I'm addressing someone who will take my comments too much to heart I do try control myself better."

I lasted quarter of an hour on this post. Tough luck to those who don't like the brash honesty and astuteness of my comments....I say what I both know and feel rather than apologise.

'Faithful are the wounds of a friend, profuse are the kisses of a foe'.

Crashedman

I think that it's dangerous not to make that clarification when talking about race. If we marginalise all lebanese muslims we'll get no where with the problem people. We need the help of those in their communities who don't agree to pull them into line and prevent others going down the same path.

Marissa · Feb 20, 2004

Why matches?

Well, look at how fragmented Christianity is. I think the best solution would be for the UN to suggest closure to, or burn down all the churches, synagogues and mosques and start again with a new international belief system.

I think both the US and Iraq are just as bad as each other. Do you know what happens when two children argue over a football?

It takes a bigger and powerful being to bang their two heads together and burst their ball until they learn how to share.

Banging their heads together doesn't necessarily mean they can't keep their differences of opinion. It rather means they have to realise the true importance of their differences and their place in the world.

Each country simply needs to grow up.

Burning down the churches, synagogues and temples would only make matters worse. The muslims would convince themselves the jews and christians were responsible and the jews and christians would return the favour. At the moment it would simply incite a war.

Icystwolf · Feb 21, 2004

There is absolutely no way in the world you could ever get all of Christianity together. If you read Revelations carefully, you'd see the sins of the 7 churches....

How could you put together Ireland with all that sectarian hatred?

Oh man...without bev, this forum feels very dull....

Bevlina · Feb 21, 2004

Bev won't leave you Jim...we're mates.

chris42 · Feb 21, 2004

And aslong as we all have msn, the fun will never end .. Bev is your pm full ?

Bevlina · Feb 21, 2004

Shouldn't be Chris! Why? There's a message for me on screen now but I want to get the posts done before i answer. But...I think it may be almost full......

Icystwolf · Feb 21, 2004

Crashedman, could you please redo your posts, with the quoting all over the place, it's really harsh on my eyes to see which text are yours and what you're trying to say.....

Iron Lion · Feb 22, 2004

Icystwolf said:
Well Iron muslim, the originator of the post that sparked it all.

Unfortunately, most muslims don't do Islamic studies, because it involves a lot of artwork and history. Theres a picture of an art that escaped the muslims hands of destruction, it has the face of Mohummed on it. Based on Persian artists, and his acension into heaven....

The Islam from Mohummed, is actually about Persians involving Jesus to be their Saviour, so infact Mohummed was a Christian. However, heres the crunch point. When Mohummed died, there was a burning of books until it was refined to one book, the koran. Mohummed's daughter lead an army, which in modern islam is no allowed. There are no "scarf" issues either. Islam took a turn when it split with the shi'ites and the othergroup which I can't remember.

As much as you can say, mr.muslim, islam today is an abomination. The islam before was a well scripted interpertation of the scriptures. Mohummed was a good man, but I recon, if he were here today, he would rebuke all of Islam all together.

A lot of the modern rules of islam, is not pure, but imaginative based on concept, the concepts that had restrictions and meanings have all been burned away. Hence paving evil...

The only reason why, we don't say that allowed in today's society, is based on the Law of Religious Tolerence. So whether a Religion is true or an abomination, we cannot comment on it in public.

So Mr.muslim, your in our domain, and this ain't public for non-Christians.

I have a harsh tongue, as many in this forum would know.....don't make me use it again.

errm excuse me, i have only just signed up here and it happened to be my first post because i noticed a mistake in somthing said. i am christian and have been for 10 years but have also in this time studied all the major religions very very in depth. you guys are supposed to be christian and yet u jump down my throat, thanks.

Bevlina · Feb 22, 2004

WOW!!!! Apologies Iron Lion if I owe them to you too! Please forgive us and join in!

Icystwolf · Feb 22, 2004

Iron Lion said:
errm excuse me, i have only just signed up here and it happened to be my first post because i noticed a mistake in somthing said. i am christian and have been for 10 years but have also in this time studied all the major religions very very in depth. you guys are supposed to be christian and yet u jump down my throat, thanks.

well i do apologise for jumping too quick because of recent ghost posters who do a hit and run tactic.

however I won't apologise for your impatience and attitude in dealing with a situation and questioning whether I'm a Christian or not...it's not my problem, it's yours....

Aussies converting to Islam.

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