Aussie Church Failing?

Bevlina · Jun 29, 2004

That really upset me...

abigail.mcintyre · Jul 1, 2004

Icystwolf said:
Christianity is the largest...however that would include catholicism and mormons and other cults...so it's not an entirely accurate picture.

The accurate picture is whats found in the scriptures, a drop water in a wave!

I am sorry you are unwell. Hope you get better soon.

What does a Calvinist believe, and how many Calvinists exist in the world today?

Isn't everyone who believes in Jesus and His work on the Cross a Christian, regardless of denomination?

I don't believe the church in Australia is failing. I think Australians are failing themselves and their families when they don't believe in going to church.

My husband and I used to believe you did not need to go to church when we were young and proud and fighting to get out from under parental influences. We love church and lead one now. God corrected us. Peopel need community to heal. People need to commune with God as one Body of believers, to get the full blessing of God, and witness effectively to the world.

Love in Christ - Abi

Bevlina · Jul 1, 2004

I don't go to church Abi, and I don't feel I am failing myself.

padey · Jul 1, 2004

Bevlina said:
I don't go to church Abi, and I don't feel I am failing myself.

Not go to church. Are you a christian?

Bevlina · Jul 1, 2004

Of course I am a Christian! What does my faith icon say! Do you think me any less than you because I don't go to church? Because I pray, and worship in my own manner? What's religion got to do with anything where God is concerned? I have been fully immersed with water baptism, and I have been prayed over to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and I speak in a prayer language which began immediately after the prayer.
Am I a christian? You betcha!
And, I wouldn't be so rude as to ask a person a thing like that who carries the icon of a christian and who is on a Christian forum.
I may ask the same thing of you!
I follow Jesus. Not a church. Read my profile.

abigail.mcintyre · Jul 2, 2004

Bevlina said:
I don't go to church Abi, and I don't feel I am failing myself.

I am sure you do not feel like you are failing yourself but you sound like a lovely Christian lady with a lot of wisdom gained through experience of God and man, and I bet there are a lot of others in churches around you who could benefit from seeing your kind of example in action - living the word.

People need Christians to witness to them, and lead them, and cover them while they are babies in Christ. If people like you don't do it - others gladly will!

I am aware that God calls us aside for seasons to grow - been there too!

Please accept my apologies if my first post unintentionally offended you.

Your sister in Christ - Abi

Bevlina · Jul 2, 2004

Oh Abi, your post didn't offend! Please don't think that! It is people like you who lift me up!
You will read of my experiences with christians in this small town in the thread "Where Is My Friend"
Then you will understand why I don't attend a church here. It's not because I don't want to attend a church. Believe me, I do! And, I pray that someday I will have the courage and strength to be able to move to an area where there is a beautiful church filled with beautiful people like yourself.
I have grown so much here on CF and been able to help so many folk all over the world. But, to be able to go to a church like you fo to me is just a dream.
Please read of some of my experiences here in the thread I mentioned and then you will understand.

Blessed-one · Jul 2, 2004

padey said:
This is an interesting point. Being a Christian out of community is completely outside the New Testament understanding! You couldnt be a Christian outside of community, because who you related to, was were you go your identity.

'used to' just for the duration of reading posts on CF.
all these people saying it's not necessary to go to church was swaying my opinion, but nope, *stamp my feet on it*.

Secondly, if you converted to Christianity you were kicked out of your family, because Christianity was a sect of Judaism and this sect was the lowest group in the social structure. So when NT writers call people brother, they actually mean it, eg Philemon. As there was no social welfare, if you got kicked out of home you had no job, no place to live and no future. So becoming a Christian meant you literally had a new family.

how great is that!

Jennifer615 · Jul 19, 2004

I think Injured Soldier and Koey have hit the nail on the head (go to the first page of this thread). So many of these big churches are so shallow. I really don't like the prosperity doctrine. I personally think it breeds greed. People give in order to get. And there doesn't seem to be a balance between the old rusty traditional churches and the new bubble and froth big churches. God is everywhere in every church, but none of us have got it right!

I became a Christian in 1983, and revivel was hitting Australia then. I was in a small pentecostal church, and the community spirit was so strong. The young people of the church socialised every weekend and there were activities during the week. Everyone knew each other so well, and we would all pitch in if someone was having any kind of trouble. We saw ourselves as our brother's keeper, and the leaders would talk to church members is they were having challenges.

The Christian community in general was strong then. There was even a Christian travel group called Christian Youth Travel Association, which organised bus camping tours for Christians. I travelled around Australia and to Europe with them. It was so wonderful to travel with like-minded people and skip the pub-crawls which usually take place with other tour groups. I made so many wonderful friends on these tours. This organisation doesn't do these tours anymore because Christian people now "prefer to travel with their own friends". This to me seems to be the sad sign of the times with Christians today.

Now, you can go to a church for 5 years and not know anybody!!!!! People will greet you with niceties, but have no idea of your situations. It's sad. We need to bring a community spirit back!

Bevlina · Jul 19, 2004

Excellent post Jen. Many of the church congregations are very shallow, and I don't know where on earth this 'prosperity gospel' came from. To me it's another gospel. And not the one I'd like to follow that's for sure. As for many people in churches today, the words "brothers keeper" don't exist.
I don't want to mix with people who would sway me into a belief that I am not comfortable with. And, there appears to be too many cliques in churches. That isn't what God is all about.
Christianity is about family, togetherness and love. worshipping together, praying together and staying togeter. Helping one another in times of need as a true family.
The church is the people. But today, things are by far, FAR, different to those of yesterday. I don't understand this 'revival' at all. In some churches, many of the congregation are left to think of survival, not revival.

inquisitor_11 · Jul 19, 2004

I have grown so much here on CF and been able to help so many folk all over the world. But, to be able to go to a church like you fo to me is just a dream.

Has anyone thought that CF is as much a "church" as any of the more traditional models of christian community?

Seriously, if you follow a NT model for christian community, in what ways does CF differ from a "real" church?

Bevlina · Jul 19, 2004

It doesn't Inquisitor. CF is like a church. Many view it as one.

inquisitor_11 · Jul 19, 2004

And I think that's a big part of why the Aussie church may be "failing". We are too caught up with our traditional notions of what christian commmunity should be, or look like, and yet fail to see the rich simplicity and freedom of expression that the NT gives us.

Bevlina · Jul 19, 2004

Well, I for one see the richness and fullness of the NT. And, the simplicity and freedom. I don't go to church and I can honestly say I feel God's presence moreso in the bush than in a church. And, some churches today combine politics and greed with Jesus.
That isn't for me. God is complete. The NT is complete. If it weren't, there would have been more written by the Apostles. God's grace is sufficient.

inquisitor_11 · Jul 19, 2004

Bevlina said:
Well, I for one see the richness and fullness of the NT. And, the simplicity and freedom.

Sorry if you got the impression that I was saying that about you. It was meant as general statement... I was actually trying to support your position if anything

I'm glad that your able to maintain such a strong relationship with God, despite your experiences of the church.

Bevlina · Jul 20, 2004

No, no...I didn't get that impression that all Inquisitor! Quite the opposite in fact!
My greatest possession is my Bible. Many thanks for the support. There are others who think I am some wort of a heathen because I don't go to church.
Far from it. I've given 2 parts of my testimony.
But, for some reason, God just likes to keep me all to himself! Not than I'm complaining one little scrap.

artofwar · Jul 25, 2004

I find it funny that people bring Judgements on other churches when they fully do not understand their doctrine or just focus on a negative aspect of a church seeing every church and denomination has one and not seeing the positive , very negative persons indeed

inquisitor_11 · Jul 26, 2004

You've still got to acknowledge any legitimate issues, and often denominational distinctions, whilst increasingly meaningless, often exist for good reasons. e.g if a group like "the family of God" or the Moonies come out and say something like "evangelism is to be done through promiscuity" or the like, should we not raise our concerns?

I also think that it is interesting that many christians will readily identify that as a heresay (sp?), or the Uniting Church's liberal stance on homosexuality. But greed and selfishness dressed up in 'godly' language is being increasingly promoted within mainline churches in Australia (and not simply hillsong, CCC, AOG).

artofwar · Jul 26, 2004

Interesting
but everyone has got an opinion and is quick to point the finger and judge without properly searching the FACTS instead of listening to third persons

Bevlina · Jul 26, 2004

Isn't it up to us to keep clear of churches which have a liberal stance on homosexuals,
and those which are money grabbers?
Some churches can reign under a guise. Paul said "I will not suffer a woman to preach"...but try to tell the churches that...and the women.

Aussie Church Failing?

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a long journey ahead

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Viva la revolucion!

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