Attraction

[Tone]

So, lately I've been considering the topic of "boundaries". This is probably a result of living within today's culture of "social distancing", among other things.


After pondering this for a while and discussing aspects of it in other threads, the following idea came to mind:


It is better to ask yourself, "Why am I not attracted to this person?" rather than, "Why am I attracted to this person?"


And then the Messiah came to mind and how people related to Him, specifically, the Pharisees.


I believe that they were of the mindset of looking for some attractive ideal they held in their own mind, and this led to blindness.


They didn't ask themselves why they were so repulsed by this figure before them.


How does this tie into boundaries?


Well, I believe we all lean towards having boundaries. I don't believe that there is anything novel about the idea of looking for toxicity levels in others. I believe that human beings are unnaturally (due to the fall) bent towards looking for that enticing spark in others, and not having the perspective of really asking ourselves why a person is so unattractive to us. This results in reinforcing the barriers we already have against the unattractive and erecting new ones where no bright ideal shines through.

I'm actually on a conference call, so I may be a little unclear...sorry.


But, i would like to explore this concept some more, so any thoughts and/or feedback is welcome.


Thank you



--T1

 

[Michie]

So, lately I've been considering the topic of "boundaries". This is probably a result of living within today's culture of "social distancing", among other things.


After pondering this for a while and discussing aspects of it in other threads, the following idea came to mind:


It is better to ask yourself, "Why am I not attracted to this person?" rather than, "Why am I attracted to this person?"


And then the Messiah came to mind and how people related to Him, specifically, the Pharisees.


I believe that they were of the mindset of looking for some attractive ideal they held in their own mind, and this led to blindness.


They didn't ask themselves why they were so repulsed by this figure before them.


How does this tie into boundaries?


Well, I believe we all lean towards having boundaries. I don't believe that there is anything novel about the idea of looking for toxicity levels in others. I believe that human beings are unnaturally (due to the fall) bent towards looking for that enticing spark in others, and not having the perspective of really asking ourselves why a person is so unattractive to us. This results in reinforcing the barriers we already have against the unattractive and erecting new ones where no bright ideal shines through.

I'm actually on a conference call, so I may be a little unclear...sorry.


But, i would like to explore this concept some more, so any thoughts and/or feedback is welcome.


Thank you



--T1

Interesting post Tone. I’d be interested to hear where you are going with this.

 

[Tone]

Interesting post Tone. I’d be interested to hear where you are going with this.

This is deeper fellowship...I'm not going anywhere with it without others...


I don't call myself a teacher or anything like that, please do let me hear it if I am wrong...or anything...


I'm asking for the same candidness in return.

If the OP doesn't make sense...let me know, please...ha ha.

Thanks!

 

[Tone]

"Why am I not attracted to this person?" rather than, "Why am I attracted to this person?"

Or maybe this should be "Why should I be/not be..."

 

[Michie]

This is deeper fellowship...I'm not going anywhere with it without others...


I don't call myself a teacher or anything like that, please do let me hear it if I am wrong...or anything...


I'm asking for the same candidness in return.

If the OP doesn't make sense...let me know, please...ha ha.

Thanks!

I think some clarification in the op would help. I’m just asking if you are wondering if you are asking how boundaries, attraction, or lack of attraction work in the Christian world?

 

[Tone]

I think some clarification in the op would help. I’m just asking if you are wondering if you are asking how boundaries, attraction, or lack of attraction work in the Christian world?

A Christian Worldview of Attraction? Francis Schaeffer would love that!


Yeah, let's write the book!!!!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So, lately I've been considering the topic of "boundaries". This is probably a result of living within today's culture of "social distancing", among other things.


After pondering this for a while and discussing aspects of it in other threads, the following idea came to mind:


It is better to ask yourself, "Why am I not attracted to this person?" rather than, "Why am I attracted to this person?"


And then the Messiah came to mind and how people related to Him, specifically, the Pharisees.


I believe that they were of the mindset of looking for some attractive ideal they held in their own mind, and this led to blindness.


They didn't ask themselves why they were so repulsed by this figure before them.


How does this tie into boundaries?


Well, I believe we all lean towards having boundaries. I don't believe that there is anything novel about the idea of looking for toxicity levels in others. I believe that human beings are unnaturally (due to the fall) bent towards looking for that enticing spark in others, and not having the perspective of really asking ourselves why a person is so unattractive to us. This results in reinforcing the barriers we already have against the unattractive and erecting new ones where no bright ideal shines through.

I'm actually on a conference call, so I may be a little unclear...sorry.


But, i would like to explore this concept some more, so any thoughts and/or feedback is welcome.


Thank you



--T1

This is actually an awesome set of questions you've posed, Brother Tone! It's also one that is complex and due a good amount of study, study that I've only given moderate attention to over the years. With that being what it is, I don't have much to say at the moment, but I think you've already done well in offering a good summation.

One additional consideration might be that the Pharisees already had a certain interpretive expectation that they wanted any Messiah, whom God might send to them, to fill. As you already know, Jesus refused to fulfill many of those expectations. People wanted a political liberator; Jesus instead gave Himself as a redeemer, offering mercy and grace against sin. People wanted an undying hero; Jesus instead offered Himself as a dying sacrifice. People wanted ethnic affirmation; Jesus instead gave them parables like that of the Good Samaritan, stretching them beyond the ethnic identities those people valued.

So, you're right to bring this up in relation to the concept of conceptual boundaries. They seem to all too easily play into how people evaluate others in relation to social boundaries as well, don't they?

 

[Tone]

the Pharisees already had a certain interpretive expectation that they wanted any Messiah, whom God might send to them, to fill.

Very true.

And this "interpretative expectation" they put on like a garment...and it became their identity.

So, it seems they did not want to give up their identity, for no one...no sinner, no wine bibber, no glutton, and nobody who would not also don the same fraternity jacket, so to speak.

 

[mourningdove~]

It is better to ask yourself, "Why am I not attracted to this person?" rather than, "Why am I attracted to this person?"

While asking both questions would probably be helpful, I think we may learn more about ourselves if we ask ourselves: "Why am I not attracted to this person?"

Sometimes the things we do not like in 'another' person are actually the very things that are true of 'ourselves', though we may not realize it ...

 

[Anthony2019]

A friend told me many years ago "You know, you're really not that important".

Sounds like an insult doesn't it? Except, what he was trying to say was that self-absorption was the root of all unhappiness.

Why do we not get on with certain types of people? Why do we not find them attractive? I think that nine times out of ten, it is because they make us feel uncomfortable about ourselves. Perhaps it is their self-confidence, their success, the way they look, the way they dress. Very often they have qualities that we desire for ourselves and this makes us feel inadequate.

Right now we are in the midst of a pandemic, yet there is another serious disease inflicting this world which has the capability of destroying our body, minds and souls, and it is resentment. Ask any former addict what it was that turned them to their substance of choice, as well as the biggest trigger for relapse, and they will tell you it is resentment and fear.

Fear gives birth to resentment, which in turn leads to anger. Anger causes us to view those around us uncharitably and with intolerance. For most of us, being angry is unbearable and we will always seek to quell our emotions. Some will turn to drink and drugs with the illusion that it will make them feel better. Others will hoard riches and material possessions because it gives them an enhanced sense of security. Whatever the vice, there will always be someone to look down on, someone who can be blamed for our own world not being as perfect as we would want it to be.

I have also seen it in churches. Religious people focusing on the perceived failings of others, because it somehow reassures them that their own sins are less flagrant.

In a nutshell, the reason we don't like others is because we do not like ourselves.

Many years ago, I worked in an office with a group of people who clearly didn't like each other. They would be incredibly cordial and pleasant until one of them left the room, and then they would be extremely uncordial and unpleasant about the person who was not present! I spent many days and years listening to their conversations and it became clear to me that the root of their problem was insecurity and fear. Afraid of the prospect of losing their jobs, not getting that pay rise, the fear of someone else performing better than them and getting recognised, perhaps someone who they perceive is more beautiful and attractive that them. The feeling of being "snubbed" when someone else got the promotion they felt they deserved. Fear and resentment, of course, invariably leads to anger. Some of these people spent more time in the manager's office having disciplinary meetings about their unkind words and conduct rather than doing the jobs they were paid to do. Some of them left of their own volition, not realising that the problem they thought they had left behind had travelled with them. The problem was themselves!

If we are to find each and every person in this world loveable and attractive, then we need to deal with our own fear. The remedy for our fear is trust. The foundation for trust is the security that we are loved, not in spite of who we are, but because of who we are.

So returning to the comment made by my friend all those years ago, am I really important? If my importance is measured by how I look, how I dress, or how much money I have, then clearly not. As Max Erhmann wrote in his poem Desiderata, "these things are as perennial as the grass". If my importance is measured by how much I am loved by the One who created me, then it is sure and everlasting.

True love knows no boundaries. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres (1 Corinthians 13).

 

[Tone]

A friend told me many years ago "You know, you're really not that important".

Sounds like an insult doesn't it? Except, what he was trying to say was that self-absorption was the root of all unhappiness.

Why do we not get on with certain types of people? Why do we not find them attractive? I think that nine times out of ten, it is because they make us feel uncomfortable about ourselves. Perhaps it is their self-confidence, their success, the way they look, the way they dress. Very often they have qualities that we desire for ourselves and this makes us feel inadequate.

Right now we are in the midst of a pandemic, yet there is another serious disease inflicting this world which has the capability of destroying our body, minds and souls, and it is resentment. Ask any former addict what it was that turned them to their substance of choice, as well as the biggest trigger for relapse, and they will tell you it is resentment and fear.

Fear gives birth to resentment, which in turn leads to anger. Anger causes us to view those around us uncharitably and with intolerance. For most of us, being angry is unbearable and we will always seek to quell our emotions. Some will turn to drink and drugs with the illusion that it will make them feel better. Others will hoard riches and material possessions because it gives them an enhanced sense of security. Whatever the vice, there will always be someone to look down on, someone who can be blamed for our own world not being as perfect as we would want it to be.

I have also seen it in churches. Religious people focusing on the perceived failings of others, because it somehow reassures them that their own sins are less flagrant.

In a nutshell, the reason we don't like others is because we do not like ourselves.

Many years ago, I worked in an office with a group of people who clearly didn't like each other. They would be incredibly cordial and pleasant until one of them left the room, and then they would be extremely uncordial and unpleasant about the person who was not present! I spent many days and years listening to their conversations and it became clear to me that the root of their problem was insecurity and fear. Afraid of the prospect of losing their jobs, not getting that pay rise, the fear of someone else performing better than them and getting recognised, perhaps someone who they perceive is more beautiful and attractive that them. The feeling of being "snubbed" when someone else got the promotion they felt they deserved. Fear and resentment, of course, invariably leads to anger. Some of these people spent more time in the manager's office having disciplinary meetings about their unkind words and conduct rather than doing the jobs they were paid to do. Some of them left of their own volition, not realising that the problem they thought they had left behind had travelled with them. The problem was themselves!

If we are to find each and every person in this world loveable and attractive, then we need to deal with our own fear. The remedy for our fear is trust. The foundation for trust is the security that we are loved, not in spite of who we are, but because of who we are.

So returning to the comment made by my friend all those years ago, am I really important? If my importance is measured by how I look, how I dress, or how much money I have, then clearly not. As Max Erhmann wrote in his poem Desiderata, "these things are as perennial as the grass". If my importance is measured by how much I am loved by the One who created me, then it is sure and everlasting.

True love knows no boundaries. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres (1 Corinthians 13).

This is an awesome post, thank you for all that you've put into it!

I agree with so much of it.


I've been thinking alot about the fact that a relationship really isn't all about me, I'm really not that important.

Being self-centered does invite so much more unecessary hurt, which leads to mayhem if one cannot deal with it responsibly.

 

[Tone]

In a nutshell, the reason we don't like others is because we do not like ourselves.

Yesssssss


Romans 2:1
"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

 

[Tone]

The only way we can see what repulses us in others ..is that it's in us...

Otherwise we wouldn't see it.


Matthew 6:23
"But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"

 

[Tone]

The funny thing about all this is, is there is always room for growth.

I may have reached a point in my life where I feel that I can tolerate and even embrace anybody, without exception, but now I have the challenge of believing that others are just as capable.

So, there is still that judgement call from me, I guess.

*But, it's not about me...it's about them...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The only way we can see what repulses us in others ..is that it's in us...

Otherwise we wouldn't see it.


Matthew 6:23
"But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"

I don't know if I agree with your application of the scripture here on the whole, Tone. I do agree with you that it's a point of truth for us to apply to ourselves, but I think it's a partial point of God's overall truth. And where my evaluations about other people come into consideration, I have additional reasons by which to be repulsed by some people ... and this is the case even as I attempt to understand and empathize with their psychological makeup.

Sin isn't a one size fits all categorical concept; it has different manifestations and intensities of manifestation among different people. Sure, we all like sheep have gone astray and "we've all sinned," but even if this is the case, just because I can try on an extra-large size pair of jeans doesn't mean that they're my size even if I can actually get "into them," metaphorically speaking.

No, I think the real challenge in understanding the things we find in another person--those things that either attract or repel us--comes in our willingness to reorient our thinking and interact with that person as Jesus would have us interact with him (or her), even when we're not inclined to do so.

 

[Tone]

reasons by which to be repulsed by some people

Oh yes, we'll always have those reasons...thoughts to dwell on and attach to the individual, but what is the verse on that:

Philippians 4:8
"8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable— if anything is excellent or praiseworthy— think on these things."

as Jesus would have us interact with him (or her)

This is what I'm after here.

Not our reasons or knowledge, or understanding, but His.



And I do believe I see what you are saying,


I mean, we can dwell on the things within our own lives, whether we've done them or thought them, or approved of in others, or acquiesced to when we should've stood up against it, but we come to a place where we understand that all those things are not our identity, they are just commonalities within the human condition.

So, yeah, there are some whom we may perceive that haven't reached this understanding and therefore it may be harder to separate their identity from the repulsive acts and/or situations.

And this is where the idea of "Giving the benefit of the doubt" comes in, I believe.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Oh yes, we'll always have those reasons...thoughts to dwell on and attach to the individual, but what is the verse on that:

Philippians 4:8
"8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable— if anything is excellent or praiseworthy— think on these things."





This is what I'm after here.

Not our reasons or knowledge, or understanding, but His.



And I do believe I see what you are saying,


I mean, we can dwell on the things within our own lives, whether we've done them or thought them, or approved of in others, or acquiesced to when we should've stood up against it, but we come to a place where we understand that all those things are not our identity, they are just commonalities within the human condition.

So, yeah, there are some whom we may perceive that haven't reached this understanding and therefore it may be harder to separate their identity from the repulsive acts and/or situations.

And this is where the idea of "Giving the benefit of the doubt" comes in, I believe.

All well said, Tone!