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Attn RKF - Shroud and other miracles

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Chris†opher Paul, May 20, 2002.

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  1. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

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    VOW, you beat me to it! :D :D
     
  2. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

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    All right, I fixed it. :)

    Anybody can slip. "I" is right next to "O", y'know.
     
  3. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

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    "Bad typing goeth before a fall."
     
  4. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    To Wols:

    And here I thought it was some "new" internet technology!!

    ;)


    Peace and love,
    ~VOW
     
  5. RKF

    RKF Member

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    Ok chill wols, and could you put away the gun, it makes me nervous :pray: :eek: :help: :cry: :(
     
  6. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Well, now that you have been shown to have no reliable evidence of the shroud being fake, how about responding to my second point, about the crying statue.

    The event that I am refering to happened from 1991-1993 in Lake Ridge, Va. There were many, many eye witnesses, some I know personally. Father Bruse could make statues cry tears and cry blood simply by coming into the room with them. In addition, the statues could change colors and stain glass windown would weep blood on occasion. In addition, he was one of three priests in history to receive the Stigmata! This has never been proven to be a hoax.

    Father Bruse is beyond reproach and is a quiet, unassuming priest with a geniune concern for the poor.

    I have all of the news articles from the time, FYI.

    What good could come from this, you might ask?
    Tons of conversions to Christianity!

    And about your comments that the Catholic church does this as a trick...explain why they always shy away from declaring anything a miracle? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to say "Look, this is a miracle, join our Church!" Instead, they won't say that, and try to quietly let this incidents fade away.
     
  7. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

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    You have nothing to fear, my dear fellow; any weapon, if used with the proper safety measures and handled responsibly, is perfectly safe.

    I was, once upon a time in an era long, long ago called the "Cold War", an actual firearms instructor, for a short period. I still recall standing up there in front of all those eager, fresh young faces, holding a rifle above my head and intoning, "This is an M-16A1 semi-automatic, gas-operated, air-cooled, hand-held shoulder weapon. It is magazine-fed by a box-type magazine, 30-round capacity, and chambers a 5.56 millimeter, .223 caliber anti-personnel round. The weapon itself is approximately one meter in length, and has a maximum effective range of 500 meters. When unloaded, the weapon weighs slightly over six pounds; when completely loaded, it weighs slightly under eight pounds. The weapon is capable of accomodating several accessories, which include the bayonet, the bipod, the long-range, Starlite, and infrared scopes, the mount assembly, and the M-203 grenade launcher. This is the basic assault rifle which you will be employing today. Are there any questions?"

    My, that was a long time ago...... :eek:
     
  8. RKF

    RKF Member

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    I hard to answer your question, souljah without offending the catholic church, But they are the devil's trickery, God doesn't show signs like that.
    First off he says not to have graven images so why would he use those statues of Mary or whomever.
    Secondly, that's your version of christianity. IMO, to be a christian means to be christ like, Jesus wouldn't keep people from marrying or have them sustain from meats or have people confess their sins to a priest, say hail mary's should I go on...remember you asked....
     
  9. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    To RKF:

    And your personal knowledge of Jesus permits you to make this determination?

    Sounds more to me like RKF doesn't think people should be kept from marrying or ABstaining from meats, or confess their sins to a priest, or say "Hail Marys".

    Perhaps you should ASK what the basis is for celibacy, or confession, or what exactly IS a "Hail Mary."

    You might be surprised to find out just how much "Jesus" is in all of those.



    Peace,
    ~VOW
     
  10. RKF

    RKF Member

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    He is in none of them, sense he nor none of HIS disciples meantioned any of it. In fact Jesus said Mat 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

    and in 1Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
    :
    Jam 5:16 Confess [your] FAULTS(NOT SINS) one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

    Need more the bibles full of good scriptures
     
  11. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    To RKF:

    Beg pardon, sir, but Jesus is in ALL of them. Don't condemn what you don't understand, based on what somebody TOLD you.

    Celibacy: Jesus was celibate, and serves as an example to all priests. Paul stated that celibacy was noble. Neither claim to forbid it.

    Confession is Scriptural. References available upon request. If you DISAGREE with the Scriptural references, that is your prerogative, but you cannot say that the Church's interpretations are wrong. Judgment is not for you to say.

    Hail Mary: a request to ask Mary to pray FOR us. Praying for one another is entirely Scriptural. The body of the request is taken verbatim from Scripture.

    Again... don't condemn what you don't understand.


    Peace,
    ~VOW
     
  12. RKF

    RKF Member

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    Confessing your sins to a man is not scriptural, nor is praying to mary, mary can't pray for you she is DEAD. Jesus is the only way to God, not his mother.

    Doesn't these scriptures mean anything to you
    1Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
     
  13. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

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    How can you prove this, based on John 21:25?
    What do you call your father, then? "Mother"? "Semi-Mother"? "Other Than Mother"? I recall that Jesus also said that if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. So, do you still have both eyes, RKF? If so, why? Shouldn't you be taking that verse literally?

    The fact is, in both passages Jesus is speaking hyperbolically; not literally. He is using a purposely inflated, unrealistic illustration as a didactic vehicle, rather after the fashion of, "I've told you five hundred million times....."
    1 Cor 7:32-35.
    Gnosticism.
    Sorry. The operative Greek word is paraptoma, which indeed is rendered "fault" in James 5:16....but also "trespasses" in Matthew 6:15, and "sins" in Ephesians 1:7. (All KJV.) The literal translation is "transgression."
    And less personal interpretations. ;)
    James 5:16; besides, you're not confessing them to a man, you're confessing them to God; God merely uses the priest as an instrument.
    Oh, so people in Heaven are dead? What about Matthew 22:32?
    Mary always points to Jesus, never to herself. Her entire ministry can be summed up in her own words in John 2:5.
    Already dealt with, and shown to be not applicable to the Catholic Faith.

    Try again.
     
  14. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Woah...

    /s0uljah humbily moves over for Wolseley to administer the intellectual butt-whooping to RKF

    :eek: :D
     
  15. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    To Souljah:

    We keep Wolster on hand just for whoopin' purposes. He's got a whole LIBERRRRY of books he uses for whompin'!!!

    (sure is hard on the book covers, though!)


    Peace,
    ~VOW
     
  16. RKF

    RKF Member

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    Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

    So what? Are you saying that he told the catholic church something that he hasn't told the world?

    James 5:16; besides, you're not confessing them to a man, you're confessing them to God; God merely uses the priest as an instrument.

    So the priest are gods now, I think not.....still not scriptural

    Mary didn't have a ministry, she was only a vessel, here's what Jesus said about mary

    Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
    Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
    Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
    Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

    She was there with the others on the day of Pentecost and received the Holy Ghost like the rest, but that didn't make the god that catholics portray her as..Praying to mary how insane.....

    Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

    1Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth

    These fit the catholic church perfectly, how can you say they don't?

    Matt. 22:32 What does this have to do with what your saying

    Do you believe that Mary is on one side of the throne and Jesus on the other?
     
  17. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    To RKF:

    Not exactly. But the Catholic Church recognizes Sacred Tradition in addition to Sacred Scripture; non-Catholic Christian churches, on a whole, do not.


    Wolseley NEVER said that! The priests are INSTRUMENTS used by God. If you pick up a pencil and write with it, does that mean the pencil IS RKF? I think not...


    Try again. Read about the wedding in Cana. They ran out of wine, and Mary went to Jesus and asked Him to help. He told her, "My time has not yet come." Did she apologize? Leave him alone? Slowly back away?

    Nope.

    She went to the servants and told them, "Do whatever He tells you."

    And Jesus, who just moments before had said basically that He would NOT do anything, TURNED THE WATER INTO WINE. Why? Because HIS MOTHER ASKED HIM TO HELP.

    And Mary's ministry? To point others towards Her Son: "Do whatever He tells you to."


    Does this fit the Catholic Church? No, it sounds more like the people who wish to tear down something they don't understand.


    Don't know where you picked THAT one up, but it sure isn't a teaching of the Catholic Church.


    A word of advice, RKF: if you don't wish to belong to the Catholic Church, fine... but STOP tearing down the Church in the name of being "Christian."


    Peace,
    ~VOW
     
  18. RKF

    RKF Member

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    A word of advice to you, Vow, get out before it's too late.

    Yes, this fits perfectly, it's amazing this was written years before the formation of the catholic church, 1Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth

    I understand the catholic church my wife was once bound by them.....
     
  19. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

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    Let me see if I am reading you correctly.

    You are saying that Catholics do not belong to the Christian Faith;

    That Catholics follow evil spirits and demonic doctrines;

    That Catholics are hypocrites and liars;

    That Catholics force their members to remain single and eat no meat;

    That Catholics have no knowledge of the truth;

    That membership in the Catholic Church constitutes bondage;

    And that Catholics should quickly abandon their Church, to "get out before it's too late". (Application of 1 Timothy 4:1-3, with prefix and suffix added.)

    Am I reading you correctly here? If you're not saying this at all, let me know, but if I'm understanding you properly, say that I am, because I don't want to be in any doubt whatsoever as to what you're actually saying here.

    So.....???
     
  20. RKF

    RKF Member

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    YES
     
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