attended a mass recently..not catholic..have a question

mea kulpa said:

There is no salvation outside the catholic faith

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It's great to be on the winning team!

bettercallpaul said:

It's great to be on the winning team!

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Hi,

Are you joking about believing that there is no salvation outside the normal definition of the Catholic Church?

If you are, your sarcasm is understood.

If not, I am confused by your not knowing, that is not true.

LOVE,

Whenever I notice loud children, smelly adults, unskilled singers, musicians or speakers, people wearing clothes that strike me at first as inapropriate, or whatever, I try to thank the Lord that they bothered to show up. It is a wonderful moment to focus on our humility.

bettercallpaul said:

It's great to be on the winning team!

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It sure is

MikeK said:

Whenever I notice loud children, smelly adults, unskilled singers, musicians or speakers, people wearing clothes that strike me at first as inapropriate, or whatever, I try to thank the Lord that they bothered to show up. It is a wonderful moment to focus on our humility.

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exactly! patience, tolerance and humility are qualities less visible in society these days in my view.

That's a curious view. "Tolerance" is in fact all the rage, including tolerating unbelievably rude/inappropriate behavior, insanely permissive parenting, etc etc. Tolerating such behavior is nothing to be proud of and does no one any favors to say the least.

I am thankful that people come to Mass. I am anything but thankful that they bring children who are far too young to get anything out of Mass and can't be bothered to teach them to behave.

bill5 said:

That's a curious view. "Tolerance" is in fact all the rage, including tolerating unbelievably rude/inappropriate behavior, insanely permissive parenting, etc etc. Tolerating such behavior is nothing to be proud of and does no one any favors to say the least.

I am thankful that people come to Mass. I am anything but thankful that they bring children who are far too young to get anything out of Mass and can't be bothered to teach them to behave.

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Children of all ages belong at Mass. I too have found myself distracted by them, but Christ desires their presence.

We'll agree to disagree there. That's why we have Sunday school/etc. That way they can still be present at church.

bill5 said:

We'll agree to disagree there. That's why we have Sunday school/etc. That way they can still be present at church.

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Seconded.

bill5 said:

That's a curious view. "Tolerance" is in fact all the rage, including tolerating unbelievably rude/inappropriate behavior, insanely permissive parenting, etc etc. Tolerating such behavior is nothing to be proud of and does no one any favors to say the least.

I am thankful that people come to Mass. I am anything but thankful that they bring children who are far too young to get anything out of Mass and can't be bothered to teach them to behave.

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Hi,

Great hearing, which I do not have, would make The Mass harder to concentrate on, however one of your Popes, said this:

"We can change nothing in the Bible."

That being the case, this is from Mark 10,

Let the Children Come to Me

13 And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. 15 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” 16 And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.

It seems to be saying, we cannot object to children and their ways in The Mass.

Further, if God wants them to bring their children to Mass as a form of worship, that is also covered Biblically, in Romans 14, meaning there that if you or I criticize the parents for doing what God wants them to do for Him, then really we are criticizing God, for asking them to do that as a form of worship, and not really criticizing the parents.

See if you can extract that out of this from Romans 14,

Do Not Pass Judgment on One Another

14 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

LOVE,

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,

Great hearing, which I do not have, would make The Mass harder to concentrate on, however one of your Popes, said this:

"We can change nothing in the Bible."

That being the case, this is from Mark 10,

Let the Children Come to Me

13 And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. 15 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” 16 And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.

It seems to be saying, we cannot object to children and their ways in The Mass.

Further, if God wants them to bring their children to Mass as a form of worship, that is also covered Biblically, in Romans 14, meaning there that if you or I criticize the parents for doing what God wants them to do for Him, then really we are criticizing God, for asking them to do that as a form of worship, and not really criticizing the parents.

See if you can extract that out of this from Romans 14,

Do Not Pass Judgment on One Another

14 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

LOVE,

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You answered Bill not me, but I take the liberty to comment on this post of yours nevertheless (hope you don't mind).

Sunday school is in fact a way of bringing the kids to our Lord at mass just think of it, they are gone for the readings and return in time for the eucharistic part of the mass.

It's way better for the kids and for the grownups to have it this way.
The kids get to hear about our Lord in a way that fits their young mind better and the adults get to concentrate much better on the reading.

I fail to see how this is to keep the children away from Christ?
Maybe you can be a lamb and explain it to me ?

Also what the heck does this have to do with judging one another?
That connection is foreign to me I'm afraid...

Thanks cOfm, frankly I wasn't going to bother as I rarely do when people toss out Bible quotes to "support" their opinion (ie their interpretation of it). We can play that game all day long.

Again, agree to disagree with people who think loud/crying/screaming children (up to and including babies) at Mass is a wonderful thing.

Hi,

aChildOfMary said:

You answered Bill not me, but I take the liberty to comment on this post of yours nevertheless (hope you don't mind).

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Of course, I do not mind.

Sunday school is in fact a way of bringing the kids to our Lord at mass just think of it, they are gone for the readings and return in time for the eucharistic part of the mass.

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Yes.

(Not in the church I attend though. I have seen that done. I don't want to consider this now though. I want to look at it, the way you are, as though, this does happen this way at every Mass.)

It's way better for the kids and for the grownups to have it this way.
The kids get to hear about our Lord in a way that fits their young mind better and the adults get to concentrate much better on the reading.

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Please stop being right and reasonable.

I fail to see how this is to keep the children away from Christ?

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Okay. At this point, following you, so do I.

Maybe you can be a lamb and explain it to me ?

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I cannot, given the children are taken to Sunday School.

Also what the heck does this have to do with judging one another?

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That connection is foreign to me I'm afraid...

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It was for anyone complaining of children being brought to Mass, when there are no separate accommodations for the children.

It seems wrong to complain in those circumstances.

It was if we judge, that the children are too noisy, when parents are taking their kids to Mass, it is not always appropriate to do so.

LOVE,

Lord let us pray that we show tolerance and patience in times of trial. That we not get hung up on small annoyances. That we not become old , grumpy and irritable.

I have been to many monotone services before as described by the OP....but also many with some life to them as well.

bill5 said:

Thanks cOfm, frankly I wasn't going to bother as I rarely do when people toss out Bible quotes to "support" their opinion (ie their interpretation of it). We can play that game all day long.

Again, agree to disagree with people who think loud/crying/screaming children (up to and including babies) at Mass is a wonderful thing.

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Hi,

I am sorry that you choose not to discuss things with me.

I will take this to mean, you consider me unreasonable, and will expect no response from you ever, as apparently I am unreasonable, or uneducated, or just too bigoted, and entrenched in my own personal incorrect biases.

I can't say as I blame you.

LOVE,

katerinah1947 said:

I will take this to mean, you consider me unreasonable, and will expect no response from you ever, as apparently I am unreasonable, or uneducated, or just too bigoted, and entrenched in my own personal incorrect biases.

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You take it wrong, but I take this to mean you think I always the assume the worst of people and consider them unreasonable (etc) based on a single response to a thread. That is incorrect FYI. I thought I made it clear, but perhaps I did not, that I simply object to someone throwing out Bible quotes as if that in itself supports their position, esp when it's simply their interpretation of those quotes. You have made many fine posts here; I simply disagree with your initial premise earlier and how you backed it up. No more, no less. I regret if it offended you.


Lord let us pray that we have the courage show a lack of tolerance for rude behavior, which only enables and emboldens it further, and further have enough common sense to know when to show tolerance and patience and when not to, and further have the wisdom to understand that if someone draws their lines in different places than us, that does not equate to them being old, grumpy and irritable. Amen.

bill5 said:

You take it wrong, but I take this to mean you think I always the assume the worst of people and consider them unreasonable (etc) based on a single response to a thread. That is incorrect FYI. I thought I made it clear, but perhaps I did not, that I simply object to someone throwing out Bible quotes as if that in itself supports their position, esp when it's simply their interpretation of those quotes. You have made many fine posts here; I simply disagree with your initial premise earlier and how you backed it up. No more, no less. I regret if it offended you.


Lord let us pray that we have the courage show a lack of tolerance for rude behavior, which only enables and emboldens it further, and further have enough common sense to know when to show tolerance and patience and when not to, and further have the wisdom to understand that if someone draws their lines in different places than us, that does not equate to them being old, grumpy and irritable. Amen.

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Hi,

I will break my silence, and allow you to further upset me.

Ignoring someone by not answering them is abusive. It is verbally abusive. It is the silent form of verbal abuse.

Thus, you verbally abused me using the silent form.

Abuse, has the purpose of control and the slavery of at least one person, to the abuser.

My statements, lacking your words to me but to another, meant all those things I said. They meant that to me.,

What you said, that I meant or must mean was and is incorrect.,

Who told you that The Bible and understanding that is not a Catholic thing to do, as you implied?????

Who told you that discussion, rather than ignoring people is no longer a Catholic way to be?

Who told you that being rude and confrontational, rather than meek and mild is not Catholic?

The pope cannot, say the Bible is wrong. The church cannot, yet when a full-blown Catholic decides to discuss the application of a chuch policy and adds The Bible to that, you automatically reject the person, and what they say applies, because they are using a higher authority than the church or the Pope or Saints?

And now you want permission to continue to be grouchy?

When the answer to whether you are allowed to be confrontational or grouchy to others in church is actually in the Bible in Matthew 7:15-16, how can I respond?

How?

I use the Bible also. You don't allow that.

Do you not know, that meanness, (briars) and men who know what is correct in God's view of things, are never found together?

That is what Matthew 7:16 is all about. It is about women of God who hurt others verbally, grapes found in and among thorns.

It is about men of God who hurt others verbally, figs found in and among briars.

And you prayed to God above, for Him to help you, to be that briar, courageously.

Do you also not know that God frowns on prayers said where everyone hears you?

That too is in the Bible. It is to shut your door and pray to God in private.

I do not give you permission, to be rude nor silently abusive to me.

I cannot stop you though. And I will not stop you. That is not my job.

LOVE,

forgive him katerinah, he knows not what he says

ml5363 said:

yes, this is what I was trying to figure out...was this an off day or a typical day...I was chatted with a catholic friend..we were talking about beliefs...and art...i asked if all catholic churches are depicted like in the movies..the elaborate decor and such..she said not really but your older chapels would...so she invited me to a mass...her church she attends is simple , so we decided to attend the one downtown from the 1800s..since she had never attended there either and her old priest was also there...i agree to attend if she agreed to visit mine..she had only been to lutheran and catholic...so we did a thursday since she said she couldn't miss hers on sunday...and i knew hubby wouldn't take our 3 kids alone...lol was an experience but was very underwhelming...felt like god was limited in that service...since it was so robotic..that he couldn't present himself..but anyways..

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To get the feel of a "full" Catholic Mass you have to go on Sunday. To find a really good one you would likely have to go quite a distance. The best all around Mass I have ever attended was at a parish in downtown Chicago, run be a religious order, I cannot recall which one. Every part was excellent and inspiring, from the readings, to the music, to what may have been the best homily I have heard in a half century of listening to homilies. I even mentioned it later to my pastor at our parish (not in Illinois) and he knew about this parish and how dynamic they were. Apparently they are well known around the country. And I had just stumbled upon them as they were close to my hotel.

In contrast, most weekday Masses are short and mechanical. At my parish at the time mentioned above our priest actually gave a short homily at weekday Masses, and we even had music. So it was better than most. But I have been to others, including at famous Cathedrals, where the priest did not seem to even know or care that anyone else was there. Like you, at those kind of daily Masses I felt very disconnected, as if I were a spectator, rather than a participant.