Attempts tp read the bible.

[RachelZ]

Hi guys...hope you're doing OK. I know mostly when I post it's often cos of my relationship...I hesitate to say ROCD (relationship OCD) cos I feel uneasy putting it down to OCD when I fear so much it's reality. But I think I prolly have what is know as scrupulosity as well. I got so bad that I gave up using daily bible notes and now don't usually read the bible off my own back unless in church or homegroup. I also find praying can be really hard. I think the ROCD and the scrupulosity feed each other...but then I think maybe it's a natural connection if it's not OCD. ie if God really is angry with me about my relationship then I will feel anxious with him and by feeling that, I struggle to take the ROCD to him if it's not OCD. Sorry if that's not very clear!

Anyway...I dared to open my bible last night...now surely if God wanted to show me His love He'd use that opportunity to direct me to relevent passages right? Well, yet again I read one of those passages that makes the anxiety rise and the fear come over me. I'm not sure it's right to post what I read cos I don't want to cause others to worry. But suffice to say it scared me. Now if it's purely OCD then fine I'll ignore it and try and have faith in God's love...which I find really hard. But if OCD is not what's going on then the verses I read have dire consequences for me.

The thing is, I can so relate to the thread RobertZ has posted...that eternal cycle of fearing God's judgement. The thing is I know God does judge and when I read the bible, old testament or new, I see verses which make me fear that when people talk about how wonderfully kind God/Jesus is, they've got it wrong. In fact I get quite fearfully mistrustful of people when they say things like "but God's not like that" or "He loves everyone and longs to be in relationship with them"! People say to read the gospels but they scare me to...reading about Jesus scares me, even the psalms scare me...but if I am living in sin then wouldn't it make sense for the bible to cause this reaction in me? Maybe if I can't face up to my own horrible state in God's eyes then that is why I get anxious and confused.

I have just re-read the passage to remind myself of what is said and really it's quite clear that if I fall into the category it's describing then I am to be punished...so if that punishment is already taking place then I'm wrong to treat it as OCD. God promises peace for people who live life His way...maybe my lack of peace is the evidence that I am no-where near living in God's will. And yet I would so hesitate to use that argument with others with issues surrounding anxiety...eg anxiety disorders, depression, etc.

I used to love doing bible study...I used to love leading worship...maybe the fact that I have strayed from the straight and narrow means that I can no longer experience God and His word and worship in the same way?

I want to feel peace...is that so bad? Maybe it is a bad desire if I don't deserve it! I want to be a useful Christian...I want to be passionate about God and salvation and to be an encouragement to others...instead, all too often I am so preoccupied with my own inner turmoil and struggles, so consumed with fear and torment that I prolly end up having the opposite efect on people to that which I want.

I don't know what to do...I try and get over all this but I can't...I summon up my courage and read my bible and feel like God's angry with me, I pray and feel like God's angry with me, I don't do either and I feel like God's angry with me! I want to get to heaven not just by the skin of my teeth and I want God to say well done my good and faithful servant...how, when I'm like this? I can't even help people on here much cos even with others' OCD I get the yes but what if they are right and it isn't just OCD? I can relate to their perceptions of God and think what if we're both right...how can I encourage them towards a loving God when I am so afraid that He is a terrifying Father not a patient Daddy?

Sorry...I really do feel like if I'm not harking on about one thing it's another...it's like so many things can send me into anxiety orbit. What use am I like this? When I can't even offer compassion to others cos of my fear and self-centredness? Thanks for reading...take care, Rachel

 

[Jayangel81]

even the psalms scare me...

Are there specific verses in Psalms that scare you, there are a few about the wicked being destroyed, He isnt talking about God's people though.

...but if I am living in sin then wouldn't it make sense for the bible to cause this reaction in me? Maybe if I can't face up to my own horrible state in God's eyes then that is why I get anxious and confused.

Rachel there is something very important to understand about God and knowing when it is God, OCD or even spiritual warfare. One word. Fruit

God convicts us through His Word many times, but God WILL NOT leave you with confusion,fear and anxiousness. It is important as we get to know God that we know His fruit. If something does not match up to the fruit of the Spirit that you have a right to question it, whether it really is from God or not, understand?

I see verses which make me fear that when people talk about how wonderfully kind God/Jesus is, they've got it wrong. In fact I get quite fearfully mistrustful of people when they say things like "but God's not like that" or "He loves everyone and longs to be in relationship with them"!

God is love though, The whole bible when taken into context is ALL about God's great love for us and His longing to be in a relationship with us. From the begining to the end. If you do not want to trust anothers view on it, you can always trust what God says, alot of people focus so much on one side of God but they forget that HE IS love Many people forget the holiness of God as well. God cannot be in front of evil, that is WHY Jesus had to be the propitiation for us. Now that Christ died for us, we MAY approach God in boldness and in Faith as the Book of Hebrews declare.

God promises peace for people who live life His way...maybe my lack of peace is the evidence that I am no-where near living in God's will.

Let us say that you were able to live life exactly the way He wants. You will still find no peace at mind if you view God as someone waiting to damn the whole world. If a person like I told Robert, if they do not understand Gods Grace, they will not find the Peace.

I think there is a reason why in Pauls epistles, He put Grace before Peace. You just cannot have peace without Grace, it just is not there. Ask God to reveal to you HIS Grace for you. He will show you in time and you will learn about it. But if you don't believe it, than noone will fully understand it

People need to trust God to find peace, it is that simple. Problem is with "OCD" they have constant doubts. God will teach you to trust Him instead of your feelings, instead of these thoughts in your head.

I have just re-read the passage to remind myself of what is said and really it's quite clear that if I fall into the category it's describing then I am to be punished...so if that punishment is already taking place then I'm wrong to treat it as OCD.

What passage are you speaking about Rachel? If you do not mind me asking.

It is only wrong to believe that no matter what happened in your life, that God is not willing to pardon you through Faith in Christ. If you are living a certain way that is not pleasing to the Lord, than confess your sin and repent from it and come back into the Grace of God. It is that simple And yes, it really is that simple. We cannot make forgiveness harder than it really is.

I used to love doing bible study...I used to love leading worship...maybe the fact that I have strayed from the straight and narrow means that I can no longer experience God and His word and worship in the same way?

Do not forget we are sheep We have a tendancy of always falling off that narrow path, but thanks be to God that He is willing to extend His hand (like peter on the water) and put us back where we belong.

I keep telling people, if you do not feel like doing bible study, do it anyway and ask the Lord to fill you with the desire and motivation again. Mental illness wears people out and are known to de-motivate people of everything. When with doubting God's forgiveness it is not unknown to feel the way you do about leading worship and doing bible-study. Show God that you ARE interested, and He will fill you with the motivation and desires, but do NOT look for them in feelings, please disreguard them because they will just make you doubt more.

I want to feel peace...is that so bad? Maybe it is a bad desire if I don't deserve it! I want to be a useful Christian...I want to be passionate about God and salvation and to be an encouragement to others...instead, all too often I am so preoccupied with my own inner turmoil and struggles, so consumed with fear and torment that I prolly end up having the opposite efect on people to that which I want.

Is finding peace wrong? not at all. The problem is, alot of us try to find peace within our feelings instead of God

We need to stop focusing on our own turmoil and torment and FOCUS on Gods Grace You will find peace.

I don't know what to do...I try and get over all this but I can't...I summon up my courage and read my bible and feel like God's angry with me, I pray and feel like God's angry with me, I don't do either and I feel like God's angry with me!

Are you willing to put aside feelings and replace them with God's Word? Because that is what you need to do Remember: this is a lifelong descision. I say this because women more than men have a tendancy of going by their feelings and living by them. Instead of living by your feelings, would you be willing to sacrifice them for living in Gods Word? Think about it, and speak to God about it.

I can relate to their perceptions of God and think what if we're both right...

God's Word cannot go both ways, there is only ONE that is right and God's Word would be the truth of either side.

how can I encourage them towards a loving God when I am so afraid that He is a terrifying Father not a patient Daddy?

Have you ever heard the saying "Help yourself before you can help others"? Well in some ways this is can be true. Rachel get to know God the way He really is THAN you can encourage others.

There is someone on the OCD forums, I will not mention her name. Wants to desperatly help her family with their salvation. How can this person bring the truth of the Gospel to someone if they do not know the truth themselves. It is sad yes. BUT there is always hope. Rachel you are a beautiful person inside, I know this because God bears witness inside me, but what you need to focus on is what the truth is, getting yourself in the right direction of God's view of you and His Grace and by trusting in Him, and you will be suprised on how much God will use you

When I can't even offer compassion to others cos of my fear and self-centredness?

Denying our own pain and hardships and dedicating it to another person is NOT easy.

Rachel do you realise how many times I want to say goodbye to CF? Seriously, I want OUT at times. It is easy for me to say, forget everyone and focus on myself, but God helps us and gives us the strength to overcome it. But right now you need to stay in God's Word. And when you can, encourage people, but do not berate yourself because you are focused on something else.

 

[RachelZ]

Hi JayAngel..thank you so much for your reply...I really do appreciate you taking so much time to respond to me! I'm sorry you often feel like leaving the forum...I guess when you give out so much to others it can very easily get to the point of compassion fatigue especially when you're dealing with hurting people who may not allways show their appreciation, but please know that I believe God sees all the effort you put in and how faithfully you use scripture. I pray you will feel His affirmation!

I would love to comment on all you've said but my little one took rather a long time to go off to sleep and now if I don't follow suit soon I'm gonna prolly know about it in the morning...nothing like a grumpy, tired Mum to kick of the week to a bad start! I will read it again tommorrow and hopefully get the time to respond properly. In the meantime, the verses were Jeremiah 6:16-21 from the Good News bible. I've not put the quote down so people that think they are in a place where they might spike can choose not to read it.

I agree that we have to trust God's word not others when it comes to His character but really when I read the bible I interpret so much of it in a scary way. If it's talking about punishment or sin I often feel it might be about me? I feel anxious and struggle to know if it's mere anxiety or God's conviction.

Thans again for your time and patience...I hope you have a good week...take care, Rachel

 

[Jayangel81]

I'm sorry you often feel like leaving the forum...I guess when you give out so much to others it can very easily get to the point of compassion fatigue especially when you're dealing with hurting people who may not allways show their appreciation

More about my selfishness seeking appreciation is a trait of the flesh that I am fighting off

I would love to comment on all you've said but my little one took rather a long time to go off to sleep and now if I don't follow suit soon I'm gonna prolly know about it in the morning...nothing like a grumpy, tired Mum to kick of the week to a bad start!

I am sure you cannot be that bad besides I think alot of us are grumpy about mondays

In the meantime, the verses were Jeremiah 6:16-21 from the Good News bible. I've not put the quote down so people that think they are in a place where they might spike can choose not to read it.

I will come back later and try to explain these verses to you, unless someone else does in the meantime.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend

Blessings,
James

 

[kaykay9.0]

Hi, Rachel,
I have often had trouble with reading the Bible as well. Sometimes less than others, sometimes more. When you struggle with OCD, you tend to zero in on those fear producing passages and think they somehow apply to yourself. I read the passage from Jeremiah 6. That is part of the book of Jeremiah. The book of Jeremiah does deal a lot with God speaking about bringing judgment at that time. Maybe Jay can explain it to you better, but I fail to see how this applies to you at all. I think God did and sometimes does bring judgment on a nation when it (collectively) fails to seek Him. I think the United States may be under judgment right now because of its materialism and failure to seek God. That may not be true, but I think it may be the cause of all our economic woes. I think it's possible at least.

But individually, those of us who are Christians, are children of God. The book of Hebrews speaks of God disciplining those He loves (those that are His) as children. This is very different than a nation falling under a collective judgment. It's kind of like tough love. You are a parent. As your child grows, because you love him, you will have to discipline him in the ways of right and wrong. If you don't set guidelines for him and consequences for wrong-doing, you would not acting in his best interests. You said in another post, you don't believe in physical punishment (I disagree with you but we won't start that discussion here! LOL!) The fact of the matter is that as a loving parent, you will find a way to discipline him even if it isn't physical. But your actions as a loving parent are in no way to harm him but to help him. Again, this is the relationship you are in with your heavenly Father. It is, again, very different than the judgment the Lord might need to bring on a nation who has forgotten Him and His ways. The Old Testament speaks a lot of the latter. Hope this makes sense. Jay is better at explaining scripture than I am but this is the way I see it.

A lot of times when I am having trouble reading other parts of the Bible, I try to just stay in Psalms. I shared this in a lot more detail a long time ago on this forum, but just the gist of it now~ one time about 10 years ago, my husband had a dream about me which he felt was from the Lord. To summarize it, it seemed like the Lord was showing Him that I get caught up looking at the fearful stuff in the Bible and fail to balance it with the love, mercy and blood of Christ. I think that's indeed what OCD can do.

 

[RachelZ]

Hi JayAngel and KayKay, many thanks for your replies.

In answer to your questions etc JayAngel, yes I guess the bits in the psalms about God destroying the wicked do freak me out. I think it's because I fear I come into that category and also because it scares me that David asks God to destroy people and it seems this was an OK sentiment with God.

Regarding fruit I totally agree...but that worries me too as I don't seem to see much fruit in my life. I can think of two people I know who have become Christians since meeting me and they're my best friend and my hubby...and because I'm so caught up in anxiety and fear and doubt, my effectiveness as a witness and/or encouragement is not great IMO. The fruit thing also worries me cos I look at my hubby and wonder if he's showing any and then get anxious about that.

I cannot argue that God says He is love...it never pays to argue with what He says in His word...but, and I'm afraid it's a very big BUT, I somehow see His love as not the same as I think of love and that His grace and love are shown to those whom He chooses and if I'm not chosen or if I've hacked Him off so much He has pushed me away then I will not experience them. It does say He views the proud from afar and I cannot say I am a humble person so therefore could fit into this category!

I so agree with you that I need to help myself in these areas before I can truly help others but this has gone on so long it seems such a waste that I'm like this. As to repenting of true sin I find it hard to know if something is God convicting me or my own anxiety. I know I need to be reading the bible and talking to God more...but when so much that I read makes me feel worse it's so hard. So often I can only seem to relate to the passages that speak of God's judgement and punishment on the wicked...just as an example I opened up Psalms just now to show you what I mean and read in Ps 31:23 about how God punishes the proud...I mean I've just been talking about being proud and that's what I read...can you understand why I get so scared?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be pig headed...I'd truly love to rest in God's love and grace cos I'm tired of this but I'm so afraid that in doing so I might really screw up if this isn't about OCD but is about my sinfullness!

Hi KayKay, thanks for understanding...I guess I struggle with interpreting why I home in on the punishing, scary bits in the bible...is it my anxious state or is it my sinful state?

As to that passage...I think specifically I worry that what if I chose to get married to someone who wasn't right and by doing so took the wrong road at the crossroads? In that passage God was really mad at the people and talked of punishing them...not even disciplining them like a parent but outright punishment. He promised peace if they obeyed...so I think well maybe my lack of peace is an indication of how God views my choice! (As to the smacking thing I'm a bit of a fence sitter...I used to smack children when I worked with them and we were allowed back then but have changed somewhat...but I wouldn't like to say I totally disagree with it in all circumstances though in practice I guess I am acting as if that's what I believe.) I guess even if I can see this as God disciplining me I get scared cos if He is then I have done or am doing something sinful...if that's so, I need to accept that and repent. But I just feel such dread at thinking God is angry at me for getting married. It'd be awful to think that maybe my whole existence is offensive to Him which it would be...my role as a wife, as a mum, as just me is all stained if my choice was sin. But then before this choice I worried that although I had a diagnosis of ME which had been confirmed by a consultant neurologist who's one of the countries leading experts on the illness, I didn't really and was being rebuked by God for living as such. I was in such a state about it I would push myself to do stuff which was really too much for me and as a result ended up much more disabled than I was when I went off sick. I would read passages about if you don't work you shan't eat and also where it says that the lazy man puts his hand in the food bowl and can't even be bothered to bring it to his mouth and I'd think maybe that was how God viewed me. I'd feel guilt about receiving state benefits and would question so much of what I could or couldn't do. Only by accepting and treating it as ME did I improve and learn to live more within my limitations. So should I have repented then when I thought God was judging me? And now it's my relationship...are my fears really because God is angry with me and won't give me peace until I repent? It feels too risky to believe this is OCD but it feels too scary to believe it isn't...does that make sense?

Thanks again for your input...hope you both have a good week...take care, Rachel

 

[RachelZ]

PS If anyone knows how I can correct my thread title I'd be grateful..."Attempts tp read the bible" looks really silly...cheers, Rachel

 

[kaykay9.0]

Hi JayAngel and KayKay, many thanks for your replies.

In answer to your questions etc JayAngel, yes I guess the bits in the psalms about God destroying the quicked do freak me out. I think it's because I fear I come into that category and also because it scares me that David asks God to destroy people and it seems this was an OK sentiment with God.

Regarding fruit I totally agree...but that worries me too as I don't seem to see much fruit in my life. I can think of two people I know who have become Christians since meeting me and they're my best friend and my hubby...and because I'm so caught up in anxiety and fear and doubt, my effectiveness as a witness and/or encouragement is not great IMO. The fruit thing also worries me cos I look at my hubby and wonder if he's showing any and then get anxious about that.

I cannot argue that God says He is love...it never pays to argue with what He says in His word...but and I'm afraid it's a very big BUT, I somehow see His loe as not the same as I think of love and that His grace and love are shown to those whom He chooses and if I'm not chosen or if I've hacked Him off so much He has pushed me away then I will not experience them. It does say He views the proud from afar and I cannot say I am a humble person so therefore could fit into this category!

I so agree with you that I need to help myself in these areas before I can truly help others but this has gone on so long it seems such a waste that I'm like this. As to repenting of true sin I find it hard to know if something is God convicting me or my own anxiety. I know I need to be reading the bible and talking to God more...but when so much that I read makes me feel worse it's so hard. I can only seem to relate to the passages that speak of God's judgement and punishment on the wicked...just as an example I opened up Psalms just now to show you what I mean and read in Ps 31:23 about how God punishes the proud...I mean I've just been talking about being proud and that's what I read...can you understand why I get so scared?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be pig headed...I'd truly love to rest in God's love and grace cos I'm tired of this but I'm so afraid that in doing so I might really screw up if this isn't about OCD but is about my sinfullness!

Hi KayKay, thanks for understanding...I guess I struggle with interpreting why I home in on the punishing, scary bits in the bible...is it my anxious state or is it my sinful state?

As to that passage...I think specifically I worry that what if I chose to get married to someone who wasn't right and by doing so took the wrong road at the crossroads? In that passage God was really mad at the people and talked of punishing them...not even disciplining them like a parent but outright punishment. He promised peace if they obeyed...so I think well maybe my lack of peace is an indication of how God views my chose! (As to the smacking thing I'm a bit of a fence sitter...I used to smack children when I worked with them and we were allowed back then but have changed somewhat...but I wouldn't like to say I totally disagree with it in all circumstances though in practice I guess I am acting as if that's what I believe.) I guess even if I can see this as God disciplining me I get scared cos if He is then I have done or am doing something sinful...if that's so, I need to accept that and repent. But I just feel such dread at thinking God is angry at me for getting married. It'd be awful to think that maybe my whole existence is offensive to Him which it would be...my role as a wife, as a mum, as just me is all stained if my choice was sin. But then before this choice I worried that although I had a diagnosis of ME which had been confirmed by a consultant neurologist who's one of the countries leading experts on the illness, I didn't really and was being rebuked by God for living as such. I was in such a state about it I would push myself to do stuff which was really too much for me and as a result ended up much more disabled than I was when I went off sick. I would read passages about if you don't work you shan't eat and also where it says that the lazy man puts his hand in the food bowl and can't even be bothered to bring it to his mouth and I'd think maybe that was how God viewed me. I'd feel guilt about receiving state benefits and would question so much of what I could or couldn't do. Only by accepting and treating it as ME did I improve and learn to live more within my limitations. So should I have repented then when I thought God was judging me? And now it's my relationship...are my fears really because God is angry with me and won't give me peace until I repent? It feels too risky to believe this is OCD but it feels too scary to believe it isn't...does that make sense?

Thanks again for your input...hope you both have a good week...take care, Rachel

OCD, girlfriend!!

You've posted a lot here, Rachel. I don't know what to address, first, but every one of your fears I believe are OCD rooted. I know I sound like a broken record here about that, but that's my .02. And I would tell you if I thought otherwise.

First, about the marriage thing, I know that's one of your primary obsessions, if not the main one. Rachel, I don't know if marrying your husband was right or wrong, but even if you shouldn't have married, I do NOT believe God would be angry with you about it. Your life now would not be offensive to Him. He understands that we are "dust" as the scripture says. And it certainly wouldn't mean that your role now as a wife and mother would be somehow "out of whack" or "out of God's will." I understand what you're saying. I do. (Remember I battle OCD too.) But no, I think you are looking at this wrongly.

Again, about the Jeremiah passages, yes, it does have to do with punishment, but again, I say, I think there is a difference in God bringing punishment or judgment on a nation and how He deals with His own children as individuals. Does that make sense?

The thing about your illness and worrying about just being lazy is, in my opinion, classic OCD. Those verses have to do with people who don't work, not because they can't, or it's difficult for them in some way, but because for whatever reason, they have just decided to live off of the fruit of someone else's labor. Paul was addressing a specific problem in the early church that way apparently. That's what OCD does. It takes a scripture and causes us to try to apply it to ourselves when it doesn't apply really.

Another scripture that's coming to mind is the one, also in Psalms about "Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear Him." KJV Psalms 103:13
Think about it. Most parents have so much compassion on their children. I know I did. I did discipline my son, (again because I loved him) but in my heart, I cut him more slack than anybody else in my life! I had such a protective love for him!

Bottom line, Rachel, this is OCD. I know it's hard to see it in ourselves, but....because I've been there myself, I recognize it now.

Hopefully, Jay can weigh in on some of these issues too.

 

[kaykay9.0]

PS If anyone knows how I can correct my thread title I'd be grateful..."Attempts tp read the bible" looks really silly...cheers, Rachel

I don't think you can change a thread title here at CF forums. I think you can change it so that it shows up corrected "inside" the thread (by hitting on the go advanced in the edit) but not on the general list if that makes sense. I have tried before!

 

[Jayangel81]

PS If anyone knows how I can correct my thread title I'd be grateful..."Attempts tp read the bible" looks really silly...cheers, Rachel

I cannot do it however you can ask

XShmalX , Jere209 , Minty

to do it

only us mods can

 

[RachelZ]

Oh KayKay thank you so much...you have no idea what a relief it is to have someone say so categorically it's OCD...I know I can't rely on others reasurrance but boy does it helps sometimes! I know exactly what you mean re our love for our little ones...I am so much more patient with my toddler than I would be with someone elses even though I can also be tough on him and stick to my guns if he needs some boundaries drawn which he has done recently!

I so appreciate your understanding and wisdom...this is a horrible disorder but I thank God that people like you are willing to use your experience of it to help others! Because so few people know of my struggles it means a lot to have someone understand and speak with insight into my situation!

I will try and take on board and ask God to help me utilise what you've said so it's not just a momentary reasurrance...thank you and God bless you...sending you a hug...take care, Rachel

PS Thanks for the tech advice...oh well, hopefully people know what I meant!

 

[RachelZ]

Thanks JayAngel...preciate that...take care, Rachel

 

[Jayangel81]

Regarding fruit I totally agree...but that worries me too as I don't seem to see much fruit in my life. I can think of two people I know who have become Christians since meeting me and they're my best friend and my hubby...and because I'm so caught up in anxiety and fear and doubt, my effectiveness as a witness and/or encouragement is not great IMO. The fruit thing also worries me cos I look at my hubby and wonder if he's showing any and then get anxious about that.

Well, we have to understand that it is very important to renew our minds. We renew our minds through God's Word.

Jesus said this about fruit:

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

I can guarentee you that if I do not renew my mind like we are told to, I would look, think and act even talk like the world.

IF I was to grieve the Holy Spirit, and be completely disobedient to God's Word and abideth NOT in His Word I can guarentee I will not bear good fruit. Probably the same as if I did not trust in Him.

Abide in the orignal Greek language means to rest in, kind of picture yourself as in nestling in Christ, relying on Him listening to His Word..

I can say for those top reasons that is why I am lacking fruit but God is working on me just like He does in all of us.

Ask the Lord to help you walk in the Spirit, ask Him to help you grow. I guarentee though, and I say this very serious, if a person does not know His identity in Christ, any hope for spiritual growth will cease to exist.

Your identity is more than saying "I am a child of God" We NEED to live as God sees us, we need to find out who we are in Christ, and live like that IS who we are.

You would be suprised on than how fast you will mature. We were meant to know who we are, but, alot of us if not most have blinders on, with lies coming straight from the enemy.

we have two selves, the bible talks about, the OLD man (or woman) and the NEW man. If I look at myself as this OLD man, a person who is not forgiven, to make it short every way that is opposite of the way God sees me (who we are before born-again) I am going to percieve myself to be that person and I will walk and live like that person.

satan and his kingdom is going to want to stop you from being who you are to GOD, so that you stay in bondage and you will never find true freedom in Christ.

It happens, and it is scary how true it is, but you do not need to be afraid, not anymore.

I cannot argue that God says He is love...it never pays to argue with what He says in His word...but, and I'm afraid it's a very big BUT, I somehow see His love as not the same as I think of love

Well why don't you describe to me, how you see God's love and Grace. That would be a good start.

and that His grace and love are shown to those whom He chooses and if I'm not chosen or if I've hacked Him off so much He has pushed me away then I will not experience them.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

I want to tell you something about this Great day before I get into these scriptures. On this Day pilgrims from all OVER, all the jews everywhere, I mean from all over Rachel would gather around in multitudes.

Anyway, Jesus cried out to everyone, if ANY man is thirsty. Now did Jesus go and tap certain people on the shoulder and say "would you like to be saved" Not at all.

Imagine you are in a city, people would just surround you, at this time of the year it was so crowded that you couldnt pass very well, it was like the most crowded time of the year. You couldnt go anywhere without bumping into another person.

Jesus cried outloud if "any man".

You arent going to hack Jesus away and He isnt going to push you away. You mean so much to Him, If I can only tell you the glory Jesus left to save us, you would be in complete awe.

It does say He views the proud from afar and I cannot say I am a humble person so therefore could fit into this category!

Pride can easily be broken, God knows how to humble a person.

I so agree with you that I need to help myself in these areas before I can truly help others but this has gone on so long it seems such a waste that I'm like this.

Well, trust me you are never a waste of time, to me every minute is precious.

So often I can only seem to relate to the passages that speak of God's judgement and punishment on the wicked...just as an example I opened up Psalms just now to show you what I mean and read in Ps 31:23 about how God punishes the proud...I mean I've just been talking about being proud and that's what I read...can you understand why I get so scared?

If I am not mistaken you made a post about this, opening a page to this kind of stuff, right? might have been someone else. It has happened to me, it is fear and paranioa

Look what the proud person displays:

He doesnt believe no matter what you say, that he is in need of a savior

He justifies his sin and refuses to believe that it is wicked

The proud man will never seek wisdom from God

the proud man will never turn from His ways

and more..(just a few) It is quite dangerous to be full of pride..

Sorry, I'm not trying to be pig headed...I'd truly love to rest in God's love and grace cos I'm tired of this but I'm so afraid that in doing so I might really screw up if this isn't about OCD but is about my sinfullness!

We all screw things up, but God shows mercy and Grace.

 

[annrobert]

Hi Rachel,
I just hope to encourage you in some of the truth of the nature of Jesus.
Jesus is our Rock and our Fortress and our strong tower.
Jesus longs to take us under His wings as a mother hen does her chicks.
In other words Jesus is the safest place in the world to be.
Jesus took our place on the cross,He is our Redeemer and Saviour.If your child was to be put to death for mistakes he made,you might be moved with compassion and want to take His place,yet Jesus took our place with great love and mercy and compassion while we were still His enemies.There is no greater love.
Jesus mercy is new every morning.
Jesus came to heal the broken hearted.
Jesus is moved with compassion.
Jesus came to set the captive free.
Jesus healed all who were oppressed of the devil
Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
Jesus forgives sin.
What does this tell you of the Nature of Jesus.
He can be trusted.He is tender,not counting our sins against us.He came into the world not to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved.
A bruised reed He will not crush and a smoking flax He will not snuff out.
He tells us to come to Him for rest.
Jesus says He is meek and lowly of heart.
Jesus is The Wonderful Counsellor and the Prince of Peace.
Jesus is our High Priest and Saviour.
Jesus is the Name above all Names and the Creator of everything.
Jesus is The Mighty God and the Everlasting Father and has all power over everything and yet He deals with us with mercy and gentleness and compassion and tenderness.Jesus is an amazing King who tenderly heals and forgives and understands even though He has all power He is determined to be forgiving and merciful and meek.What an awesome Master and Saviour.All we have to do is come to Him and He will never cast us out.He is our strength and our hope.No wonder the devil is jealous and wants us to be scared of Him and run from Him.the devil cometh to kill steal and destroy but Jesus comes that we might have life and have it more abundantly.Jesus is on our side and the devil hates this,he knows he cannot stop Jesus from saving us so he tries to get us to fear Jesus and get us to hold back from Jesus.But Jesus is an amazing King of Glory who is full of compassion and always protecting and forgiving us.
I understand the fear so much,but I hope this helps you some
Jesus Bless You
annrobert

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Lord, please touch Rachel and give her peace, give her discernment and help her to be confident of your love.

HB

 

[RachelZ]

Hi JayAngel...thanks ever so much for all the time and effort you've put into to responding to me and applying scripture to my situation...it is every much appreciated!

I don't know if it was me or not that posted about random bible reading but it could well have been cos I really struggle with this. The trouble is on one occassion I specificallyasked God to show me something and then opened the bible and was hit with such a positive and encouraging answer and it was so helpful. How can I choose to believe in that positive thing and not the negatives...it seems like I'd be being a hypocrite. And yet your description of this as being fearful and paranoid rings true as well.

I hear what you're saying re. Jesus calling all...but when you've been brought up with election and predestination theology it's hard to see God's salvation as really being something He wants for all people. Thats in itself ties me up in knots trying to work out.

I loved your description of abiding meaning to nestle and rest in God but it is very hard to rest in someone's arms when you're terrified of them. It's also hard to read scripture to help me renew my mind because all too often it just exacerbates the anxiety. I would love to relax under God's grace but am too scared to do so. This I guess is very much tied up with my comment regarding God's love seeming different to me. It's hard to describe what I mean but one way is to say it's love with a really dark frown on. I'm sorry if that's blasphemous, it's not meant to be. I agree that until I am settled in my identity in Christ it will be hard to bear fruit. I'm trying to get there but it's a scary and seemingly long process. Thank you for your patience...I hope you are doing OK yourself.

Hi annerobert...thank you so much for all you have written...and also for your understanding. It is good to read those things and I just pray God will help me and others on here to really be able to accept thiem without any "Yeah buts..." All too often I read the positive things in the bible and either counter it or read on and end up in a bit I feel is scary. Thank you for your post...you are very kind!

Thank you for your prayer HB...it is muchly appreciated!

Thanks again to you all...will pray God blesses you...take care, Rachel

 

[annrobert]

Hi Rachel,
quote"Hi annerobert...thank you so much for all you have written...and also for your understanding. It is good to read those things and I just pray God will help me and others on here to really be able to accept thiem without any "Yeah buts..." All too often I read the positive things in the bible and either counter it or read on and end up in a bit I feel is scary. Thank you for your post...you are very kind!"

I know all about the yeah buts ,and that does not apply to me, and ending up in scary scriptures.I know so much what that is about.I have to fight it myself all the time.I am trying very hard to keep meditating on the positive scriptures and promises and reminding myself they are for me, no ifs ands or buts.Jesus said whosoever.I am trying very hard to get in the Word and teach myself about the nature of Jesus,and get His promises into my soul.I sure know about the fear of the bible.OCD is a horrible battle to fight hey.
You are very kind too Rachel,you seem so sweet all the time.
Jesus Bless You
annrobert

 

[Jayangel81]

I don't know if it was me or not that posted about random bible reading but it could well have been cos I really struggle with this. The trouble is on one occassion I specificallyasked God to show me something and then opened the bible and was hit with such a positive and encouraging answer and it was so helpful. How can I choose to believe in that positive thing and not the negatives...it seems like I'd be being a hypocrite. And yet your description of this as being fearful and paranoid rings true as well.

There were times when I was very impatient with the Lord, and I asked Him to show me things, I would open the book the same way you have done, I to have fallen on things "condemning".

While God does talk to us through His Word, there are some ways, He just doesnt work.

You asked how you can believe the positive and the negative, believe them both, but the real question would be, in which way does the Lord see you? God throughout the bible, God has shown judgement and unconditional love toward others. There are some scary verses for the wicked..But on the other hand, He gives Grace to those who are just willing to turn from their wickedness.
----------------------------------

I would really like for you to do something for me, and there is a reason on why I am.

Grab a piece of paper, when you are calm and not in an OCD spike, write down how you see yourself. I mean really deep down. With everything you have experianced in your life especially with the OCD, how do you personally view yourself, what do you see deep down.

I ask this, because how is anyone supposed to truely accept the Grace of God, if we are not ready to accept ourselves, now maybe this is a different case with you, but God made me realize I was unable to accept His Grace until I accepted myself.

Have you ever had like one of those bad hair days, I mean for whatever reason your hair just looked horrible. By the end of spending hours fixing your hair, you give up, it just will NOT go the way you want. Now what happens if a person comes up to you, and says to you "Wow your hair looks lovely" Will you really accept this comment, as well if you had a good hair day?

I guess another case would be someone who is overweight, and someone who said "wow you look good" but you refuse to accept that comment, a fat person many times will not look at themselves as "looking good" why? Because they do not accept it. I hope I am not confusing you, it is 3 am here, so I am shouting things out here

I had a friend who hated nice comments from me, I really saw some beautiful things in herself, I hope one day she realizes it, Deep down, whether she wants to admit it, she does not accept herself, not the way I do, she wouldnt accept my graceful comments. I say graceful because seriously, the way she treated me she did NOT deserve it, and she knew it. I love the girl and I showed her grace, she may have been downright mean and pushy and well..lets not go there lol. In the end of it all. I loved her. It was my grace, and deep down she would not accept it because how she viewed herself.

So the question is, are we ready to accept Gods Grace, yes we do not deservr it, I can tell you things about my past that would disgust you, truely. I guess in the end of it all, I thank the Lord for His Grace, but at times, I cannot accept it, because of how I viewed myself.

People also have this view of God that He is just aching to condemn the entire world, They view God as this creator who just wants to condemn us the first chance He gets. Jesus didnt come into the world to condemn us though, it was quite the opposite:

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

God wants us to love Him, it is the greatest command. He never wanted to condemn anyone, God made it clear He takes NO pleasure in the death of us.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

He is saying, listen to me, I want to make sure you know that I DON'T like the fact that you have to die. I take no pleasure in it. Just turn from your wicked ways...He asks Israel (we are included) Why do we have to die, why do we have to do this to ourselves, it doesnt have to be this way..

It doesnt have to be this way..

I hear what you're saying re. Jesus calling all...but when you've been brought up with election and predestination theology it's hard to see God's salvation as really being something He wants for all people. Thats in itself ties me up in knots trying to work out.

This is the new hype in the salvation forum in theology, it has ben for a while. There are some who believe that some are not called to salvation, but that would be a contradiction. See Rachel there are some people, who deep down want to tear someone faith apart, and there are those who "behind the curtain" are being used by satan to break up the body. I will give you an example of someone, look at the apostle Peter.

In matthew, Jesus was speaking to Peter (maybe all the apostles, not looking it up) about how Jesus is going to die, peter said:

Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Jesus rebuked Peter very harsh, He said "get behind me satan" He wasnt talking to satan..He was talking to Peter who loved Jesus tremendously. What was happening behind the scenes? While Peter was oblivious, his thoughts, they were ones that would have came from if not from satan. They were worldly thoughts. Peter was being a stumbling block for Jesus.

Well same thing with this Theology. This theology makes people doubt their salvation and whether they were "really called" With this theology it is easy for a person to always wonder if they were really called or being decieved, cuz you know there is going to be spiritual warfare to make you question it...

Do not be decieved Rachel..I was stuck in this garbage theology at times..We were predestined before the foundation of the World, and Jesus was ordained to be the Lamb of God.

Rachel you were chosen, we all were. But will you accept it.

I would love to relax under God's grace but am too scared to do so.

Why are you afraid? Are you afraid He is going to let you down, maybe one day decide He doesnt want you? Deep down what are you really afraid of, what truely keeps you from trusting Him, and I won't accept OCD There is more to it, there usually is.

There is a very bright young lady with OCD, remaining unnamed, that cannot trust God because of her past experiances, some people have had such bad relationships with their earthly fathers they cannot accept that God can be a perfect Father. What does it for you? I think you should pray to God and ask Him to reveal to you what the real problem is. What is it deep down.

I'm trying to get there but it's a scary and seemingly long process.

It is a life long process, and it does not have to be scary

 

[RachelZ]

Hi annrobert...thank your for your understanding and encouragement...I hope and pray the OCD is not attacking you too much at the moment!

Thanks JayAngel...I agree that how we see ourselves is going to determine how we thinkg God sees us...in addition to this I also believe that how we see God will affect how we think He sees us. I think I struggle with both these different aspects. I will try and do as you say re. writing down how I see myself. In response to asking what am I afraid of, it's quite simply that if I get it wrong then I am going to have God's anger on me. I am terrified of making a mistake or of being hard hearted or of somehow getting something wrong in my views of God and how I worship Him and also in my day to day life decisions. I am scared of the God who's love seems so often to have a frown on and a condition attached even though I know theologically this is wrong...although as I typed that I felt uneasy cos I don't think I DO really know that it is wrong...if I did I wouldn't be afraid! I'm afraid even of feeling ike this in case I anger God with my blasphemy! I think Rachel should be spelled A-F-R-A-I-D!

Thanks again to you both...sorry it took a while to respond...it's not cos I don't appreciate your input! Take care, Rachel