Attack on the Pope by Fr Altman

[chevyontheriver]

I think he was just removed from his parish but I don't think he was laicized, in which case he still has the right to wear the collar, right?

I think he was removed from his parish and has no current assignment. I would guess that his bishop is seeking Vatican approval to defrock him. He can't quite be excommunicated unless it is for going sedevacantist, but that is a much newer thing than what got his bishop to unassign him.

By the way, he is in the same diocese as that Grindr priest, who now has an assignment as a pastor in the diocese. Go figure.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I'm really disappointed in how Fr. Altman just took a swan dive off the cliff. A few years ago he seemed alright, just a priest with strong opinions. But ever since he was disciplined his defiance has gone through the roof, he's gone full sede. I'm surprised he hasn't joined the SSPX or SSPV at this point.

I liked him in the beginning but it seems something has gone to his head.

I think he was just removed from his parish but I don't think he was laicized, in which case he still has the right to wear the collar, right?


I hope you don't go anywhere, you're an important voice in our conversations here. This site and this subforum have shrunk over the years, so every loss is felt - and we'd hate to see your activity diminished here.

He is the opposite of St Pio and it shows.
I just worry for his soul and any souls who would follow his diatribe.
Sadly, opposition and disobedience and wishing death on the Pope does not come from Heaven.

Thank you. I am not sure if we discussed much together in here. Nice to meet you.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Warrior Angel, take heart. I started participating in online Catholic forums 22 years ago and back then Pope John Paul II was on the nose of the particular conservative set, despite what they claim today. It distressed me back then as well. But fast forward 20 years and that dear Pope is canonized and claimed by the set that once hated him. The same will go for Pope Francis. He is being compared to the worst Popes in history... pffft. The man is holy and blameless in comparison. Don't stress. All will be well eventually.

I cannot say I agree with all of his opinions. But I know opinions do vary.
His teachings - he has said the teachings cannot change.
However; I do not honestly think the reports of him are honest and true.

Many times his words have been manipulated.
Quite frankly, him saying he doesn't care about a schism may be let the rotten fruit drop from tree.
And Fr Altman is not good fruit.

So seeing for myself why the Pope disregards them, is truly because bad fruits infect good.

And unless or until they become humbled, they are not good nor profiting the Church.

 

[mourningdove~]

I think he was removed from his parish and has no current assignment. I would guess that his bishop is seeking Vatican approval to defrock him. He can't quite be excommunicated unless it is for going sedevacantist, but that is a much newer thing than what got his bishop to unassign him.

By the way, he is in the same diocese as that Grindr priest, who now has an assignment as a pastor in the diocese. Go figure.

Fr. Aultman needs the prayers of those that are concerned for him.

I do not celebrate his apparent fall from grace, and the suffering he is experiencing now.
Pride cometh before the fall. None of us knows when we may become prideful, and fall ...

 

[mourningdove~]

___________________________________
My stance.
Obey and pray.

AND here is the crux of it.

Obey and be judged on your obedience.
Trust and faith are obedience despite what we 'hear'.
Despite everything, remain in faith, trust and obedience like children who KNOW the Lord is carrying them.

Thank you for returning to the thread and clearly stating your position.

 

[Michie]

Concerning Fr. Alt man’s video: Identifying the Problem is Only Half the Battle

 

[WarriorAngel]

Padre Pio;

This made it clear to Church officials that Padre Pio could not be moved peacefully. Instead, the Vatican decided to restrict his faculties, removing him from public life.

Padre Pio is to be stripped of all the faculties of his priestly ministry except the faculty to celebrate the Holy Mass, which he may continue to do, provided that it is done in private, within the walls of the friary, in the inner chapel, and not publicly in church.

It was a difficult cross for him to bear, but he obeyed and submitted to the decree.

The superior of the monastery read to Padre Pio the decree and the saintly friar responded, “God’s will be done … The will of the superiors is the will of God.”

 

[WarriorAngel]

Padre Pio;

This made it clear to Church officials that Padre Pio could not be moved peacefully. Instead, the Vatican decided to restrict his faculties, removing him from public life.


It was a difficult cross for him to bear, but he obeyed and submitted to the decree.

The superior of the monastery read to Padre Pio the decree and the saintly friar responded, “God’s will be done … The will of the superiors is the will of God.”

How St. Padre Pio responded when the Vatican silenced him

St. Padre Pio was banned from celebrating Mass publicly or even giving spiritual direction to his followers.

aleteia.org

Padre Pio was appalled by this response and urged them to stop, writing to the local bishop to assert his dissociation with them.

I must repeat that I am very disgusted by the unworthy behavior of certain false prophets who speak in my behalf … they should stop this false and unworthy propaganda, but meanwhile they have followed in their morbid fanaticism, not caring about the supreme authority of the church.
I turn, therefore, as a son most humble and completely obedient to the Catholic Church … With profound humility I kiss your sacred ring and profess myself to your excellency your most humble and obedient son.

 

[Emerald1000]

How St. Padre Pio responded when the Vatican silenced him

St. Padre Pio was banned from celebrating Mass publicly or even giving spiritual direction to his followers.

aleteia.org

Padre Pio was appalled by this response and urged them to stop, writing to the local bishop to assert his dissociation with them.

St Catherine of Sienna who's life is often cherry picked as an example, also stressed the necessity of obedience.

"Obedience is the key with which Heaven is opened. Christ sweet Jesus left you this sweet key of obedience; for, as you know, He left His Vicar, Christ-on-earth, whom you are all obliged to obey until death -and whoever is outside his obedience is in a state of damnation."

 

[WarriorAngel]

We must continue to pray for Pope Francis, while being faithful in resisting whatever attacks the body and soul of the Church, following the exhortation of the Saints.
Shortly before he died, St. Francis of Assisi called together his followers and warned them of the coming troubles, saying:

1. The time is fast approaching in which there will be great trials and afflictions; perplexities and dissensions, both spiritual and temporal, will abound; the charity of many will grow cold, and the malice of the wicked will increase.

2. The devils will have unusual power, the immaculate purity of our Order, and of others, will be so much obscured that there will be very few Christians who will obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Church with loyal hearts and perfect charity. At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavor to draw many into error and death.

3. Then scandals will be multiplied, our Order will be divided, and many others will be entirely destroyed, because they will consent to error instead of opposing it.

4. There will be such diversity of opinions and schisms among the people, the religious and the clergy, that, except those days were shortened, according to the words of the Gospel, even the elect would be led into error, were they not specially guided, amid such great confusion, by the immense mercy of God.

5. Then our Rule and manner of life will be violently opposed by some, and terrible trials will come upon us. Those who are found faithful will receive the crown of life; but woe to those who, trusting solely in their Order, shall fall into tepidity, for they will not be able to support the temptations permitted for the proving of the elect.

6. Those who preserve in their fervor and adhere to virtue with love and zeal for the truth, will suffer injuries and, persecutions as rebels and schismatics; for their persecutors, urged on by the evil spirits, will say they are rendering a great service to God by destroying such pestilent men from the face of the earth. but the Lord will be the refuge of the afflicted, and will save all who trust in Him. And in order to be like their Head, [Christ] these, the elect, will act with confidence, and by their death will purchase for themselves eternal life; choosing to obey God rather than man, they will fear nothing, and they will prefer to perish rather than consent to falsehood and perfidy.

7. Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days JESUS CHRIST WILL SEND THEM NOT A TRUE PASTOR, BUT A DESTROYER."

THE PROPHECIES OF ST. FRANCIS

 

[JSRG]

We must continue to pray for Pope Francis, while being faithful in resisting whatever attacks the body and soul of the Church, following the exhortation of the Saints.
Shortly before he died, St. Francis of Assisi called together his followers and warned them of the coming troubles, saying:

1. The time is fast approaching in which there will be great trials and afflictions; perplexities and dissensions, both spiritual and temporal, will abound; the charity of many will grow cold, and the malice of the wicked will increase.

2. The devils will have unusual power, the immaculate purity of our Order, and of others, will be so much obscured that there will be very few Christians who will obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Church with loyal hearts and perfect charity. At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavor to draw many into error and death.

3. Then scandals will be multiplied, our Order will be divided, and many others will be entirely destroyed, because they will consent to error instead of opposing it.

4. There will be such diversity of opinions and schisms among the people, the religious and the clergy, that, except those days were shortened, according to the words of the Gospel, even the elect would be led into error, were they not specially guided, amid such great confusion, by the immense mercy of God.

5. Then our Rule and manner of life will be violently opposed by some, and terrible trials will come upon us. Those who are found faithful will receive the crown of life; but woe to those who, trusting solely in their Order, shall fall into tepidity, for they will not be able to support the temptations permitted for the proving of the elect.

6. Those who preserve in their fervor and adhere to virtue with love and zeal for the truth, will suffer injuries and, persecutions as rebels and schismatics; for their persecutors, urged on by the evil spirits, will say they are rendering a great service to God by destroying such pestilent men from the face of the earth. but the Lord will be the refuge of the afflicted, and will save all who trust in Him. And in order to be like their Head, [Christ] these, the elect, will act with confidence, and by their death will purchase for themselves eternal life; choosing to obey God rather than man, they will fear nothing, and they will prefer to perish rather than consent to falsehood and perfidy.

7. Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days JESUS CHRIST WILL SEND THEM NOT A TRUE PASTOR, BUT A DESTROYER."

THE PROPHECIES OF ST. FRANCIS

While the linked page avoids coming out and explicitly saying it, it's clear that it's trying to claim the prophecy is concerning Pope Francis (if it isn't, then referring to him makes no sense). There are several reasons to reject this idea.

First, this prophecy seems reasonably fulfilled in the Western Schism. Indeed, the work cited by the page ("Works of the Seraphic Father St. Francis Of Assisi, Washbourne, 1882, pp. 248-250" which can be found at Works of the seraphic father St. Francis of Assisi : Francis, of Assisi, Saint, 1182-1226 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive) mentions this in a footnote:

"Mark of Lisbon and others think that this prophecy received its accomplishment in the great schism which desolated the Church after the election of Urban VI. in the year 1378. But it may also partially refer to other calamities which have befallen the Church in the latter ages."

So already trying to apply it to Francis makes little sense. If Francis of Assisi said this it would have been said in the 13th century, and he says "the time is fast approaching". With a statement like that, a 14th century fulfillment would be far more plausible than a 21st century one.

However, there is a more problematic issue: It seems there are good reasons to be dubious that Francis of Assisi ever made this prophecy, as detailed here:

LifeSiteNews uses false St. Francis quote to attack the pope

It’s no secret that certain quotes that are falsely attributed to St. Francis of Assisi have worked their way into popular consciousness. Most people realize that the famous Peace Prayer of St. Francis was likely written in the 19th century,

wherepeteris.com

This argues that the quote never came from Francis of Assisi to begin with and was incorrectly ascribed to him later in history, including the "Works of the Seraphic Father St. Francis of Assisi" work noted above. Incidentally, its primary source for its arguments is a work by Solanus Benfatti entitled "On the paternity of a medieval report of Francis of Assisi foretelling a non-canonically elected pope"--to a certain extent the above article can be considered an abbreviated version of it--and if one wishes to see that, it can be found here:

On the paternity of a medieval report of Francis of Assisi foretelling a non-canonically elected pope

A report of Francis of Assisi foretelling a non-canonically elected pope is circulating online in English translation. The translation is of a text edited by Luke Wadding in 1623. With the advances of Franciscan studies over the last century, we can

www.academia.edu

If this is true, then indeed the prophecy was never made by Francis of Assisi.

 

[WarriorAngel]

While the linked page avoids coming out and explicitly saying it, it's clear that it's trying to claim the prophecy is concerning Pope Francis (if it isn't, then referring to him makes no sense). There are several reasons to reject this idea.

First, this prophecy seems reasonably fulfilled in the Western Schism. Indeed, the work cited by the page ("Works of the Seraphic Father St. Francis Of Assisi, Washbourne, 1882, pp. 248-250" which can be found at Works of the seraphic father St. Francis of Assisi : Francis, of Assisi, Saint, 1182-1226 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive) mentions this in a footnote:

"Mark of Lisbon and others think that this prophecy received its accomplishment in the great schism which desolated the Church after the election of Urban VI. in the year 1378. But it may also partially refer to other calamities which have befallen the Church in the latter ages."

So already trying to apply it to Francis makes little sense. If Francis of Assisi said this it would have been said in the 13th century, and he says "the time is fast approaching". With a statement like that, a 14th century fulfillment would be far more plausible than a 21st century one.

However, there is a more problematic issue: It seems there are good reasons to be dubious that Francis of Assisi ever made this prophecy, as detailed here:

LifeSiteNews uses false St. Francis quote to attack the pope

It’s no secret that certain quotes that are falsely attributed to St. Francis of Assisi have worked their way into popular consciousness. Most people realize that the famous Peace Prayer of St. Francis was likely written in the 19th century,

wherepeteris.com

This argues that the quote never came from Francis of Assisi to begin with and was incorrectly ascribed to him later in history, including the "Works of the Seraphic Father St. Francis of Assisi" work noted above. Incidentally, its primary source for its arguments is a work by Solanus Benfatti entitled "On the paternity of a medieval report of Francis of Assisi foretelling a non-canonically elected pope"--to a certain extent the above article can be considered an abbreviated version of it--and if one wishes to see that, it can be found here:

On the paternity of a medieval report of Francis of Assisi foretelling a non-canonically elected pope

A report of Francis of Assisi foretelling a non-canonically elected pope is circulating online in English translation. The translation is of a text edited by Luke Wadding in 1623. With the advances of Franciscan studies over the last century, we can

www.academia.edu

If this is true, then indeed the prophecy was never made by Francis of Assisi.

Interesting.
Will check it when I have time.

Yet we do well to remember all the Saints have stated ad infinitum to be Obedient to the sitting Pope.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Sadly, in my four years of being a Catholic, I discovered a new variant of anti-Catholicism, one that has been promulgated by various extremists in the Church, primarily from those who self-identify as “conservative” and “traditional.” These extremists have caused tremendous divisions and infighting to the point where we see people say things that ought not to be said at all — in public or private — against the Catholic hierarchy. In our digital age, it has become very easy for anyone to share their views online and gain a massive following. This means that when so-called “Catholic influencers” start to say and do things that oppose the teachings of the Magisterium, they can lead their followers down a path of spiritual darkness, corruption, and destruction. We have just witnessed this once again in the case of Fr. James Altman.

The Rise of Anti-Catholic Catholicism

Prior to my conversion to the Catholic faith, I witnessed various forms of anti-Catholicism — ranging from casual to extreme — within the Protestant milieu in which I grew up. Comments such as “Catholics are going to Hell,” “The Pope

wherepeteris.com

I honestly know they surely need heartfelt prayers.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Sadly, in my four years of being a Catholic, I discovered a new variant of anti-Catholicism, one that has been promulgated by various extremists in the Church, primarily from those who self-identify as “conservative” and “traditional.” These extremists have caused tremendous divisions and infighting to the point where we see people say things that ought not to be said at all — in public or private — against the Catholic hierarchy. In our digital age, it has become very easy for anyone to share their views online and gain a massive following. This means that when so-called “Catholic influencers” start to say and do things that oppose the teachings of the Magisterium, they can lead their followers down a path of spiritual darkness, corruption, and destruction. We have just witnessed this once again in the case of Fr. James Altman.

The Rise of Anti-Catholic Catholicism

Prior to my conversion to the Catholic faith, I witnessed various forms of anti-Catholicism — ranging from casual to extreme — within the Protestant milieu in which I grew up. Comments such as “Catholics are going to Hell,” “The Pope

wherepeteris.com

I honestly know they surely need heartfelt prayers.

"In the last decade, we have seen the emergence of the anti-Francis movement’s contempt and vitriolic slander and defamation against the pope. As a result of the influencers, many Catholics have adopted extreme ideologies and erroneous theological positions — such as sedevacantism and “recognize and resist” — that oppose the Church’s official teachings on authority, ecclesiology, and the Magisterium."

Sounds like a description of what is going on politicly in the U.S. with the president.

 

[chevyontheriver]

"In the last decade, we have seen the emergence of the anti-Francis movement’s contempt and vitriolic slander and defamation against the pope. As a result of the influencers, many Catholics have adopted extreme ideologies and erroneous theological positions — such as sedevacantism and “recognize and resist” — that oppose the Church’s official teachings on authority, ecclesiology, and the Magisterium."

Sounds like a description of what is going on politicly in the U.S. with the president.

Do you suppose that if we actually tried to accompany these people things might work a bit better?

 

[WarriorAngel]

"In the last decade, we have seen the emergence of the anti-Francis movement’s contempt and vitriolic slander and defamation against the pope. As a result of the influencers, many Catholics have adopted extreme ideologies and erroneous theological positions — such as sedevacantism and “recognize and resist” — that oppose the Church’s official teachings on authority, ecclesiology, and the Magisterium."

Sounds like a description of what is going on politicly in the U.S. with the president.

True about the Pope - strike the shepherd and scatter the sheep.

As for the president.... he needs gone, like yesterday, like yesteryear gone.
He was also part of the anti Supreme court justice ruling that abortion is not a federal right. And it is not.
I don't have time to list the issues with him.