Atrocities

[Catholic Christian]

Catholics and protestants alike were slave 'owners'.
Slavery started well before 1800.

There aren't many Catholics is the south today: They were virtually non-existant in the south back then

 

[Catholic Christian]

Ahh... the anti-Protestant threads...

I haven't seen a good one in months!



CC, you still did not answer: what are your thoughts on the Ustaše and their own bad doings? Frankly, I'm surprised no Protestants have jumped on that wagon.

They can only ride so many wagons at a time. I'm upset at all the anti-Catholic threads allowed to run unchecked in GT. So this is my way of balancing it out. Not very charitable of me, but my charity has been just about used up... ...again.

 

[Melethiel]

Ukrainian Bogdan Chmielnicki was a Cossack Cromwell. He wore the banner of Eastern Orthodoxy in a holy war against Jews and Polish Catholics. More than 100,000 were killed in this 17th-century bloodbath, and the Ukraine was split away from Poland to become part of the Orthodox Russian empire.

Um...actually, that's not quite true at all.

I'm Ukrainian. This is part of my history.

It was a war for independence. Ever since the fall of Kyivan-Rus, Ukraine was subjugated by various empires. Unfortunately, while Khmelnytskiy was a great war leader, he was a poor civil leader, and the "treaty" he made with the Russian empire opened the door to several centuries of Russian oppression. Yes, the Cossacks slaughtered many Jews and Roman Catholics. There was the flip side of the coin as well though...the Ukrainian people (other than the nobles allied with the Poles) are historically Orthodox, and were suppressed by the Roman Catholic Poles. I urge you to read Taras Bulba by Gogol. It's fiction, but illustrated the mindset extremely well.

Finally, it's not "the Ukraine". It's "Ukraine". It's not "Bogdan Chmielnicki" but "Bohdan Khmelnytskiy". And you're acting like Ukraine splitting away from Poland was a bad thing. All we ever wanted was our independence and for other people to leave us alone.

 

[E.C.]

They can only ride so many wagons at a time. I'm upset at all the anti-Catholic threads allowed to run unchecked in GT. So this is my way of balancing it out. Not very charitable of me, but my charity has been just about used up... ...again.

You still never answered my question.

I urge you to read Taras Bulba by Gogol. It's fiction, but illustrated the mindset extremely well.

That sounds like a worthy read. I'll add it to my "to read list".

 

[Rhamiel]

Catholics and protestants alike were slave 'owners'.
Slavery started well before 1800.

that is true, Catholic French and Spanish colonies had slaves in the New World, now we can talk about the standard of living for the slaves but all were guilty of this horrible crime

 

[Rhamiel]

It's not "Bogdan Chmielnicki" but "Bohdan Khmelnytskiy"

Mel, you are a very smart young woman, you should know better then to split hairs over translations of names from one alphabet to another

 

[sunlover1]

They can only ride so many wagons at a time. I'm upset at all the anti-Catholic threads allowed to run unchecked in GT. So this is my way of balancing it out. Not very charitable of me, but my charity has been just about used up... ...again.

So this is 'revenge'? Wow, am I ever a dunce.



Κύριε ἐλέησον, Χριστὲ ἐλέησον, Κύριε ἐλέησον.
Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.

 

[E.C.]

Mel, you are a very smart young woman, you should know better then to split hairs over translations of names from one alphabet to another

To quote one of the fathers of Nicea 325 whose name I can not recall, "No one iota!"

So this is 'revenge'? Wow, am I ever a dunce.



Κύριε ἐλέησον, Χριστὲ ἐλέησον, Κύριε ἐλέησον.
Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.

Where did you find the Greek?





This is why the anti-anything threads do need to stop because they do little more than bring about revenge and escalation. Maybe a quota system would help a bit.

 

[Rhamiel]

This is why the anti-anything threads do need to stop because they do little more than bring about revenge and escalation. Maybe a quota system would help a bit.

you have wisdom beyond your years, I take back all the bad things I said about you in OBOB lol

 

[Melethiel]

Mel, you are a very smart young woman, you should know better then to split hairs over translations of names from one alphabet to another

Hey, there are standards for transliteration, and that doesn't meet them. Why should I accept the Polish butchering of a Ukrainian name?

 

[sunlover1]

that is true, Catholic French and Spanish colonies had slaves in the New World, now we can talk about the standard of living for the slaves but all were guilty of this horrible crime

Id love to discuss the facts with ya Rhamiel,
but I dont want to derail terry's thread.

I did stay on an indian reservation once btw.
Brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it.
I was sort of ashamed to be a 'white man'.
They have some really awesome dances ,
and a very rich culture. (and some horrible land)


If you havent tried indian frybread, it's
excellent.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Ukrainian Bogdan Chmielnicki was a Cossack Cromwell. He wore the banner of Eastern Orthodoxy in a holy war against Jews and Polish Catholics. More than 100,000 were killed in this 17th-century bloodbath, and the Ukraine was split away from Poland to become part of the Orthodox Russian empire.

Which has ZERO to do with The Orthodox Churches. He was not a Church leader...he was a secular government figure.

That's the equal to me calling Hitler a Pope.

The Church of Rome is run from the top down and ONE MAN can be held responsible for the atrocities held under his rule.

When The Orthodox Churches have someone inside that does something wrong we are not forced to support him. We are free to call him on what he has done and even throw him out. Let's see you do that with a Pope.

There simply is no equivalent. You follow even a bad Pope.... because you must, which is plain stupid.

Tell me something that THE ORTHODOX CHURCH did that has not been repented of and set aright.

Forgive me...

 

[E.C.]

you have wisdom beyond your years, I take back all the bad things I said about you in OBOB lol

No, those were perfectly called for as they were said in your beer hall and not mine.

 

[nestoj]

By 1998, the former Yugoslavia had shrunk to three political divisions: Serbia, Kosovo and a semi-autonomous district, Montenegro. The central government in Belgrade, mainly controlled by Serbian Orthodox Christians, had attempted to crush the mainly Muslim Albanian rebels in Kosovo were fighting for independence. They "used excessive force against the Albanian civilian population, destroying villages and driving people from their homes...By September 1998...there was a full-blown humanitarian crisis in Kosovo.". At its peak, 300,000 Kosovars had fled their homes

Yup, they fled. Interesting it's the same number of Orthodox Christian Serbs that was exiled from Croatia by Roman Catholics in 1994 - 1995. To return to the earlier period, in 1941-1945 700 000 Orthodox Christian Serbs ware killed by Roman Catholics Croats in Croatia. Several hundred thousands of Jews and Gypsies also killed by Roman Catholics in Croatia of that time. Number of forcibly converted Orthodox Christians is unknown. And I’m addressing RC’s behavior not the muslim.

If you need the links I can provide them.

God helps

 

[MikeMcK]

They can only ride so many wagons at a time. I'm upset at all the anti-Catholic threads allowed to run unchecked in GT. So this is my way of balancing it out. Not very charitable of me, but my charity has been just about used up... ...again.

And I'm upset at the many anti-Protestant/Baptist threads and the fact that the moderators allow Roman Catholics to repeatedly tell us that we're not real Christians, that we're not really a part of the church, that we can't be saved outside of their religious organization, etc.

But you learn to deal with it after a while.

 

[MarkEvan]

What is a christian?...............someone who loves the LORD their God with all their heart, all their soul, all their mind and all their strength, and who love their neighbour as themselves. Many men of all denominations have done things that are completely the opposite of what it means to be a christian, and yet there are many people in all denominations who are men who God has been able to do a mighty work through..........because they gave him their all. I am not saying that we should allow these things to escape our minds for it was not for nothing that we are told what the fruit of a false teacher is. But rather if we who profess Christ as Lord keep attacking denominations through people who wore their banner but were quite evidently not lead by the Spirit, how are we any better than those in the world?




Mark

 

[NoDoubt]

The Protestant inquisition was not done by Christians.
By definition, the term Christian means a follower of Christ. Nothing they did was in line with following Christ. If anyone can show me where Jesus (unlike Mohamed) instructed us to kill someone who didn't agree with us then they can say these people were Christians.

But any Christian who harmed or killed someone because they didn't accept a teaching - was NOT following the scriptures or Jesus' example.

That goes for catholics and protestants alike. Those things were done out of human pride using so-called human wisdom. The were not representative of Christ in any way.

I could counter-balance it by saying that the Roman Catholic machine smuggled thousands of Nazi war criminals to South America. That's a documented fact.

To be a Christian means to be like Christ and follow His example. Just calling yourself a Christian does not make you one.

Romans 12 17-21
Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay, says the Lord. On the contrary:

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Then neither was the other inquisitions carried out by Christians.

It can't be a double standard.

So we should just all ignore all inquisitions as none of them who carried them out qualify as Christians.

Forgive me...

 

[NoDoubt]

Then neither was the other inquisitions carried out by Christians.

It can't be a double standard.

So we should just all ignore all inquisitions as none of them who carried them out qualify as Christians.

Forgive me...

Did you read my post? I said none of them were true Christians and that went for protestants AND catholics alike.

What is a Christian to you.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Your thought on these historical events:

1. The "Protestant Inquisition" as history calls it is known the severities of John Calvin in Geneva and Queen Elizabeth I in England during the 1500s. Calvin's followers burned 58 "heretics," including theologian Michael Servetus, who doubted the Trinity. Elizabeth I outlawed Catholicism and executed about 200 Catholics.

2. Anabaptists were slaughtered by Protestant authorities. In Munster, Germany, Anabaptists took control of the city, drove out the clergymen, and proclaimed a New Zion. The Anabaptist leader proclaimed himself king and executed dissenters until Munster finally fell.

3. Oliver Cromwell was deemed a moderate because he massacred only Catholics and Anglicans, not other Protestants. This Puritan general commanded Bible-carrying soldiers, whom he roused to religious fervor. After decimating an Anglican army, Cromwell said, "God made them as stubble to our swords." He demanded the beheading of the defeated King Charles I, and made himself the holy dictator of England during the 1650s. When his army crushed the hated Irish Catholics, he ordered the execution of the surrendered defenders of Drogheda and their priests, calling it "a righteous judgment of God upon these barbarous wretches."

4. When Puritans settled in Massachusetts in the 1600s, they created a religious police state where doctrinal deviation could lead to flogging, pillorying, hanging, cutting off ears, or boring through the tongue with a hot iron. Preaching Quaker beliefs was a capital offense. Four stubborn Quakers defied this law and were hanged. In the 1690s fear of witches seized the colony. Twenty alleged witches were killed and 150 others imprisoned.

5. Bogdan Chmielnicki was a "Ukranian" Cromwell. He wore the banner of Eastern Orthodoxy in a holy war against Jews and Polish Catholics. More than 100,000 were killed in this 17th-century bloodbath, and the Ukraine was split away from Poland to become part of the Orthodox Russian empire.

6. In Jonestown, Guyana, in 1978, followers of the Rev. Jim Jones killed a visiting congressman and three newsmen, then administered cyanide to themselves and their children in a 900-person suicide that shocked the world.

What does this have to do with GENERAL THEOLOGY?