Atrocities

[Catholic Christian]

delete

 

[Catholic Christian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3WmH2Hs4aw

 

[MikeMcK]

Your thought on these historical events:

1. The "Protestant Inquisition" as history calls it is known the severities of John Calvin in Geneva and Queen Elizabeth I in England during the 1500s. Calvin's followers burned 58 "heretics," including theologian Michael Servetus, who doubted the Trinity. Elizabeth I outlawed Catholicism and executed about 200 Catholics.

2. Anabaptists were slaughtered by Protestant authorities. In Munster, Germany, Anabaptists took control of the city, drove out the clergymen, and proclaimed a New Zion. The Anabaptist leader proclaimed himself king and executed dissenters until Munster finally fell.

3. Oliver Cromwell was deemed a moderate because he massacred only Catholics and Anglicans, not other Protestants. This Puritan general commanded Bible-carrying soldiers, whom he roused to religious fervor. After decimating an Anglican army, Cromwell said, "God made them as stubble to our swords." He demanded the beheading of the defeated King Charles I, and made himself the holy dictator of England during the 1650s. When his army crushed the hated Irish Catholics, he ordered the execution of the surrendered defenders of Drogheda and their priests, calling it "a righteous judgment of God upon these barbarous wretches."

4. When Puritans settled in Massachusetts in the 1600s, they created a religious police state where doctrinal deviation could lead to flogging, pillorying, hanging, cutting off ears, or boring through the tongue with a hot iron. Preaching Quaker beliefs was a capital offense. Four stubborn Quakers defied this law and were hanged. In the 1690s fear of witches seized the colony. Twenty alleged witches were killed and 150 others imprisoned.

5. Bogdan Chmielnicki was a "Ukranian" Cromwell. He wore the banner of Eastern Orthodoxy in a holy war against Jews and Polish Catholics. More than 100,000 were killed in this 17th-century bloodbath, and the Ukraine was split away from Poland to become part of the Orthodox Russian empire.

6. In Jonestown, Guyana, in 1978, followers of the Rev. Jim Jones killed a visiting congressman and three newsmen, then administered cyanide to themselves and their children in a 900-person suicide that shocked the world.

That people have done bad things in the name of Christianity does not make Christianity wrong.

And, for the record, neither Jim Jones nor People's Temple were Christians. They were a cult.

 

[intricatic]

Is there a point you're getting at?

 

[Catholic Christian]

English Catholics suffered horribly under Protestant regimes. American historian William T. Walsh writes: "In Britain, 30,000 went to the stake for witchcraft; in Protestant Germany, the figure was 100,000" (, p. 275). In Scotland, too, alleged witches were cruelly put to death. Karl Keating quotes from the : "It is well-known that belief in the justice of punishing heresy with death was so common among the 16th-century Reformers-Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and their adherents-that we may say their toleration began where their power ended" (C.E., s.v., "Inquisition," 8:35).

From an article exonerating the Catholics, Here

 

[E.C.]

One word: Crusades.

I'm not just meaning the ones to the Holy Land, I'm also talking the Northern Crusades.

CC, one worthy question: what does the average Latin Rite RC think of the Eastern Catholics?

 

[Catholic Christian]

One word: Crusades.

I'm not just meaning the ones to the Holy Land, I'm also talking the Northern Crusades.

CC, one worthy question: what does the average Latin Rite RC think of the Eastern Catholics?

Ukrainian Bogdan Chmielnicki was a Cossack Cromwell. He wore the banner of Eastern Orthodoxy in a holy war against Jews and Polish Catholics. More than 100,000 were killed in this 17th-century bloodbath, and the Ukraine was split away from Poland to become part of the Orthodox Russian empire.

 

[Catholic Christian]

Is there a point you're getting at?

As the OP says: Your thought on these historical events:

 

[E.C.]

Ukrainian Bogdan Chmielnicki was a Cossack Cromwell. He wore the banner of Eastern Orthodoxy in a holy war against Jews and Polish Catholics. More than 100,000 were killed in this 17th-century bloodbath, and the Ukraine was split away from Poland to become part of the Orthodox Russian empire.

Bohdan (not Bogdan) lead an uprising against the Poles. Later, he signed a treaty with the Tsars.

Big difference.


What do you think when I say the word: Ustaše?

 

[intricatic]

My thoughts?

"Humans behaving humanly. How existential."

 

[E.C.]

My thoughts?

"Humans behaving humanly. How existential."

[John Cleese voice]
Very good sir!
[/John Cleese voice]

Let us not forget that when we take politics and use religion as a motivator, things get very hairy. However, some take a moment in history, and tweak it. Not saying that all do, but some.

 

[Catholic Christian]

Bohdan (not Bogdan) lead an uprising against the Poles. Later, he signed a treaty with the Tsars.

Big difference.


What do you think when I say the word: Ustaše?

By 1998, the former Yugoslavia had shrunk to three political divisions: Serbia, Kosovo and a semi-autonomous district, Montenegro. The central government in Belgrade, mainly controlled by Serbian Orthodox Christians, had attempted to crush the mainly Muslim Albanian rebels in Kosovo were fighting for independence. They "used excessive force against the Albanian civilian population, destroying villages and driving people from their homes...By September 1998...there was a full-blown humanitarian crisis in Kosovo.". At its peak, 300,000 Kosovars had fled their homes

source
http://www.skeptically.org/enlightenment/id7.html

 

[Catholic Christian]

My thoughts?

"Humans behaving humanly. How existential."

I shall give my thoughts: There are about ten threads rolling on page one of GT with all manner of accusations against Catholics infesting them, but I haven't a peep in them from anyone in this thread. This was a test of mine, and the results are becoming quite interesting.

 

[E.C.]

By 1998, the former Yugoslavia had shrunk to three political divisions: Serbia, Kosovo and a semi-autonomous district, Montenegro. The central government in Belgrade, mainly controlled by Serbian Orthodox Christians, had attempted to crush the mainly Muslim Albanian rebels in Kosovo were fighting for independence. They "used excessive force against the Albanian civilian population, destroying villages and driving people from their homes...By September 1998...there was a full-blown humanitarian crisis in Kosovo.". At its peak, 300,000 Kosovars had fled their homes

You're forgetting that the Ustase, who were Roman Catholic Croatians, were given orders to do one of three things with the Serbs:
1) convert 1/3 to Roman Catholicism
2) kill 1/3
3) deport 1/3 to other places.

Besides, did I say anything about the feuds between Orthodox Serbs and Muslim Albanians? No I did not. Stay on topic.

 

[sunlover1]

Your thought on these historical events:

1. The "Protestant Inquisition" as history calls it is known the severities of John Calvin in Geneva and Queen Elizabeth I in England during the 1500s. Calvin's followers burned 58 "heretics," including theologian Michael Servetus, who doubted the Trinity. Elizabeth I outlawed Catholicism and executed about 200 Catholics.

2. Anabaptists were slaughtered by Protestant authorities. In Munster, Germany, Anabaptists took control of the city, drove out the clergymen, and proclaimed a New Zion. The Anabaptist leader proclaimed himself king and executed dissenters until Munster finally fell.

3. Oliver Cromwell was deemed a moderate because he massacred only Catholics and Anglicans, not other Protestants. This Puritan general commanded Bible-carrying soldiers, whom he roused to religious fervor. After decimating an Anglican army, Cromwell said, "God made them as stubble to our swords." He demanded the beheading of the defeated King Charles I, and made himself the holy dictator of England during the 1650s. When his army crushed the hated Irish Catholics, he ordered the execution of the surrendered defenders of Drogheda and their priests, calling it "a righteous judgment of God upon these barbarous wretches."

4. When Puritans settled in Massachusetts in the 1600s, they created a religious police state where doctrinal deviation could lead to flogging, pillorying, hanging, cutting off ears, or boring through the tongue with a hot iron. Preaching Quaker beliefs was a capital offense. Four stubborn Quakers defied this law and were hanged. In the 1690s fear of witches seized the colony. Twenty alleged witches were killed and 150 others imprisoned.

5. Bogdan Chmielnicki was a "Ukranian" Cromwell. He wore the banner of Eastern Orthodoxy in a holy war against Jews and Polish Catholics. More than 100,000 were killed in this 17th-century bloodbath, and the Ukraine was split away from Poland to become part of the Orthodox Russian empire.

6. In Jonestown, Guyana, in 1978, followers of the Rev. Jim Jones killed a visiting congressman and three newsmen, then administered cyanide to themselves and their children in a 900-person suicide that shocked the world.

As the OP says: Your thought on these historical events:

My thoughts? No words are strong enough.
Oh and that's nothing, have you seen what slave owners
have done and for how many years?

Or have you ever been on an indian reservation?
I have.

Yeah, men are pathetic without the Holy Spirit guiding
them, and it's all about control, ALWAYS about control.
Playing God.

 

[intricatic]

I shall give my thoughts: There are about ten threads rolling on page one of GT with all manner of accusations against Catholics infesting them, but I haven't a peep in them from anyone in this thread. This was a test of mine, and the results are becoming quite interesting.

There are also a number of threads in GT attacking protestants. I suspect these historic events have a lot in common with the current state of GT.

 

[Catholic Christian]

American Bible Belt Slave:

When Europeans began enslaving Africans as a cheap source of labor, the Holy Office in Rome was asked about the morality of enslaving innocent blacks (Response of the Congregation of the Holy Office, 230, March 20, 1686). The practice was rejected, as was trading such slaves. Slaveholders, the Holy Office declared, were obliged to emancipate and even compensate blacks unjustly enslaved.

Papal condemnation of slavery persisted throughout the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Pope Gregory XVI's 1839 bull, In Supremo, for instance, reiterated papal opposition to enslaving "Indians, blacks, or other such people" and forbade "any ecclesiastic or lay person from presuming to defend as permissible this trade in blacks under no matter what pretext or excuse." In 1888 and again in 1890, Pope Leo XIII forcefully condemned slavery and sought its elimination where it persisted in parts of South America and Africa.

 

[E.C.]

There are also a number of threads in GT attacking protestants. I suspect these historic events have a lot in common with the current state of GT.

Ahh... the anti-Protestant threads...

I haven't seen a good one in months!



CC, you still did not answer: what are your thoughts on the Ustaše and their own bad doings? Frankly, I'm surprised no Protestants have jumped on that wagon.

 

[sunlover1]

American Bible Belt Slave:

When Europeans began enslaving Africans as a cheap source of labor, the Holy Office in Rome was asked about the morality of enslaving innocent blacks (Response of the Congregation of the Holy Office, 230, March 20, 1686). The practice was rejected, as was trading such slaves. Slaveholders, the Holy Office declared, were obliged to emancipate and even compensate blacks unjustly enslaved.

Papal condemnation of slavery persisted throughout the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Pope Gregory XVI's 1839 bull, In Supremo, for instance, reiterated papal opposition to enslaving "Indians, blacks, or other such people" and forbade "any ecclesiastic or lay person from presuming to defend as permissible this trade in blacks under no matter what pretext or excuse." In 1888 and again in 1890, Pope Leo XIII forcefully condemned slavery and sought its elimination where it persisted in parts of South America and Africa.

Catholics and protestants alike were slave 'owners'.
Slavery started well before 1800.

 

[sunlover1]

Ahh... the anti-Protestant threads...

I haven't seen a good one in months!

Where have you been?
We have some very good anti protestant threads going.