Atheists: Why does theism still exist?

[Eudaimonist]

To me N. Korea as a state is emblematic of the mind of Atheism and it's philosophy; benign and dyeing but to invested to admit it.

Except that North Korea to me is an example of a dystopia, and just about everything that I stand against politically and philosophically. And I am an atheist.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

large scale Atheist regimes

Don't exist. Stalinism is not atheism. Maoism is not atheism.

Atheism is not a philosophy or a worldview. It is not possible to predicate a regime on it.

Atheist nations like North Korea

You have no clue what you're talking about.

North Korea is a theocracy, as far from an 'atheist nation' as it is possible to be. The Eternal President, Kim il-Sung, has been dead for twenty years and is worshipped as the Great Leader. His successors Kim Jong-il and Kim Jong-un are believed to possess supernatural powers. When Jong-il died, the NK news reported that nature itself mourned his passing - snowstorms paused in the sky and glaciers cracked on mountaintops so loud they 'shook the heavens'. Their mythology is rife with the exact same brand of supernaturalist absurdities found in Christian and other theistic mythologies.

Got any more hilariously misinformed naked assertions to make, or are you done making an example of yourself?

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

And another thing...

So called 'atheist regimes' - Soviet Russia, Red China, DPRK, etc - require worship of the state, and forbid all other forms of worship.

Which is exactly what all religions do. Just replace 'state' with the pet deity of that particular religion.

Religious apologists rag on 'atheist regimes' for doing exactly what religions do, and have done for millennia, by their very nature.

 

[Colter]

Except that North Korea to me is an example of a dystopia, and just about everything that I stand against politically and philosophically. And I am an atheist.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Godless ideology is cosmic dystopia. In my religious philosophy Lucifer tried it, we are still suffering the consequences. The irony of the godless ideology on a nationalist scale is that the Godless leader becomes the very fallible God of his people. The nation is at the mercy of the terribly limited finite values of Atheism.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Godless ideology is cosmic dystopia.

Only in your imagination, not in reality.

In my religious [mythology] Lucifer tried it

I corrected your typo.

The irony of the godless ideology on a nationalist scale is that the Godless leader becomes the very fallible God of his people. The nation is at the mercy of the terribly limited finite values of Atheism.

A godless ideology does not necessarily lead to or support dictatorship or cults of personality (something that theism hardly prevents anyway). The only irony is entirely in your own mind, not in reality.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[bhsmte]

Everywhere around the earth, across all cultures great and small, we see the fruits of their respective religious belief systems, their faith.

But large scale Atheist regimes have been so few, short lived and devoid of any lasting contribution to truth, beauty or goodness, that comparisons aren't always a part of the average citizens experience. Complicating the discussion of comparisons, Atheist nations like North Korea, with it's overwhelming Juche philosophy of self sufficiency, are highly secretive due mainly to the failure of their ideology and attempts to conceal it. To me N. Korea as a state is emblematic of the mind of Atheism and it's philosophy; benign and dyeing but to invested to admit it.

"If the nonreligious approaches to cosmic reality presume to challenge the certainty of faith on the grounds of its unproved status, then the spirit experiencer can likewise resort to the dogmatic challenge of the facts of science and the beliefs of philosophy on the grounds that they are likewise unproved; they are likewise experiences in the consciousness of the scientist or the philosopher." UB 1955​

Take a gander at Scandinavia, which is a part of the world, that has seen belief in a God drop quite a bit over the decades and has more non-believers than believers.

They also happen, to have the highest quality of life indexes, in the world.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Everywhere around the earth, across all cultures great and small, we see the fruits of their respective religious belief systems, their faith.

But large scale Atheist regimes have been so few, short lived and devoid of any lasting contribution to truth, beauty or goodness, that comparisons aren't always a part of the average citizens experience.

What about secular democracies?

 

[bhsmte]

Godless ideology is cosmic dystopia. In my religious philosophy Lucifer tried it, we are still suffering the consequences. The irony of the godless ideology on a nationalist scale is that the Godless leader becomes the very fallible God of his people. The nation is at the mercy of the terribly limited finite values of Atheism.

I fully understand why you need to convince yourself this is true.

 

[stevevw]

And another thing...

So called 'atheist regimes' - Soviet Russia, Red China, DPRK, etc - require worship of the state, and forbid all other forms of worship.

Which is exactly what all religions do. Just replace 'state' with the pet deity of that particular religion.

Religious apologists rag on 'atheist regimes' for doing exactly what religions do, and have done for millennia, by their very nature.

So that shows that its not about religion when people blame religion for being the cause of all the trouble in the world. Its about humans who organize together in whatever group be it religious, political or any other group and make up rules and try to take control of things. The only thing in common is that it is humans that are making up all the rules and setting the agendas.

 

[Colter]

Only in your imagination, not in reality.



I corrected your typo.



A godless ideology does not necessarily lead to or support dictatorship or cults of personality (something that theism hardly prevents anyway). The only irony is entirely in your own mind, not in reality.


eudaimonia,

Mark

The arrogance of the Atheist is unlimited; the religious history of mankind has been an imagination.

 

[Colter]

Take a gander at Scandinavia, which is a part of the world, that has seen belief in a God drop quite a bit over the decades and has more non-believers than believers.

They also happen, to have the highest quality of life indexes, in the world.

All is not well in the land of OZ.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/world/europe/danes-rethink-a-welfare-state-ample-to-a-fault.html?pagewanted%253Dall&_r=0

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

So that shows that its not about religion when people blame religion for being the cause of all the trouble in the world.

For the skeptically minded, 'it' is and always has been about irrational beliefs in general. Religion just happens to be by far the largest and most problematic manifestation of irrational belief, so it draws the most heat.

If people were mutilating sex organs, throwing acid in schoolgirls' faces, flying planes into buildings and retarding education and social progress because they thought the Loch Ness Monster gave them permission, the heat would be there.

Its about humans who organize together in whatever group be it religious, political or any other group and make up rules and try to take control of things. The only thing in common is that it is humans that are making up all the rules and setting the agendas.

Humans (and possibly some of the other higher apes) are the only entities in the known universe capable of making up rules and agendas, so that's hardly surprising.

 

[Eudaimonist]

The arrogance of the Atheist is unlimited; the religious history of mankind has been an imagination.

I never said that.

All is not well in the land of OZ.

I live in Sweden. It's not utopia, but it is a good place to live based on world standards.

I'm not defending their welfare state. I'm just saying that you will be hard pressed to find any religious nation that is clearly superior.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Colter]

What about secular democracies?

A secular democracy is healthy and right where church and state are separate. The secular state leadership and ideology bears the fruits of the values of its constituent parts, values that are really the byproduct or the cream of its various religions within the nation state.

Atheist states bear the fruits of its atheistic, constituent parts. Atheist states fear the internal religions and their values, hence they ultimately suppress, marginalize and dare to persecute its religious institutions.


Religion in North Korea
source Wiki


According to Religious Intelligence UK the situation of religion in North Korea is the following:


Irreligion: 15,460,000 (64.3% of population, the vast majority of which are adherents of the Juche philosophy)

Korean Shamanism: 3,846,000 adherents (16% of population)

Cheondoism: 3,245,000 adherents (13.5% of population)

Buddhism: 1,082,000 adherents (4.5% of population)

Christianity: 406,000 adherents (1.7% of population)

 

[Eudaimonist]

A secular democracy is healthy and right where church and state are separate.

I agree. That would be my ideal -- a classically liberal secular democracy.

Atheist states fear the internal religions and their values, hence they ultimately suppress, marginalize and dare to persecute its religious institutions.

What is an "atheist state"? If it is a state that imposes atheism on people, are you aware that there isn't any reason why an atheist would necessarily want to support such a regime?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

The arrogance of the Atheist is unlimited; the religious history of mankind has been an imagination.

The arrogance is yours. Your blithering, asinine naked assertions do not represent 'the religious history of mankind'. They represent your imagination, and nothing else.

 

[Colter]

I agree. That would be my ideal -- a classically liberal secular democracy.



What is an "atheist state"? If it is a state that imposes atheism on people, are you aware that there isn't any reason why an atheist would necessarily want to support such a regime?


eudaimonia,

Mark

North Korea is an example of an Atheist state imposed on people, and in such a state they don't care what your opinion is or what you might want to support. Stalin tried the same thing.

You're a nice person Mark and obviously have values and intelligent political philosophy, but not every Atheist is going to agree with you. Religion may be declining in nations in Europe with a younger population giving little credit for the values that they currently have to the heritage of past religious influence, but we will have to wait and see what happens if the trend continues and how that will effect future generations born into a largely godless society. I predict it wont be pretty, it wont be what Atheist are envisioning today. You rebel against religion and God, they will rebel against you.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

North Korea is an example of an Atheist state

In your imagination, no doubt.

Meanwhile, in reality, North Korea is as close to a pure theocracy as has ever existed.

 

[Eudaimonist]

North Korea is an example of an Atheist state imposed on people, and in such a state they don't care what your opinion is or what you might want to support. Stalin tried the same thing.

I'll agree that this is true in the case of Stalin. However, this does not represent the values or ideology of the typical atheist.

Saying that Stalin's state somehow represents atheism is like saying that theocracies are "theist states" when we know well that theists have often supported secular democracies for their religious tolerance.

You're a nice person Mark and obviously have values and intelligent political philosophy, but not every Atheist is going to agree with you.

Not every theist is going to agree with you either.

Religion may be declining in nations in Europe with a younger population giving little credit for the values that they currently have to the heritage of past religious influence, but we will have to wait and see what happens if the trend continues and how that will effect future generations born into a largely godless society. I predict it wont be pretty, it wont be what Atheist are envisioning today. You rebel against religion and God, they will rebel against you.

This is all in your mind. The negativity is yours.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[stevevw]

For the skeptically minded, 'it' is and always has been about irrational beliefs in general. Religion just happens to be by far the largest and most problematic manifestation of irrational belief, so it draws the most heat.

If people were mutilating sex organs, throwing acid in schoolgirls' faces, flying planes into buildings and retarding education and social progress because they thought the Loch Ness Monster gave them permission, the heat would be there.



Humans (and possibly some of the other higher apes) are the only entities in the known universe capable of making up rules and agendas, so that's hardly surprising.

But this would show that there was something wrong with humans needing to turn to something and not the something that is the problem. So maybe there is a design fault that makes us keep doing this. Religion may come to an end and then humans move onto something else. It seems atheism is another movement. We have had communism and socialism are still alive and well. Russia's trying to re establish itself. There maybe some new age thinking that comes in. Could be communes or back to hippy pot heads who knows. Yeah bring back Woodstock.