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Atheists, What's the point?

JGG

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and you can't give yourself purpose because:analogy If i go to an alien planet and find a box but on that planet it was created as a hat,can i say it was made to carry things?NO!! i can only pretend.

But you could use it to carry things, right? The purpose of the box/hat is now to carry things. You would have given it a purpose. It may not be the intended purpose, but it's purpose. Perhaps this analogy would work better with living, thinking things.

In atheism there is NO meaning at all, you can only pretend which means you had no meaning to begin with, and if when you die you can't pretend anymore and since it is all destined to cease to exist then that means you had no meaning at all in the long run,you were just like a kid playing a game.You can find a goal,but a meaning is the sole reason you exist which you can't decide

Why is it pretend? Not just because you say so, or because you believe God has given me another purpose. Even when I die, my life will have had meaning. I have a child, I have effected the lives of thousands of people whether I'm aware of all of them or not. My son will continue on, and effect the lives of thousands more people. He may have a child that will effect the lives of thousands more people. and so on and so forth. I have a body of research that will effect the research of others. If you believe in God, and I don't, my life has still served the same purpose.
 
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Dave Ellis

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uhhh i'm not a mindless slave dude.I do everything everyone else does such as play video games.watch anime and cartoons,play sports,crack jokes,have relationships. I do what a normal man does.I have haad other reasons for conversions such as the film a case for Christ and a case for a Creator and I read the Bible.

I didn't say you were a mindless slave, I said you think that you need to be a mindless slave to find meaning in your life.

Part of the core message of Christianity is that God created everything for his glory. He's the shepherd, we're the sheep. We are supposed to devote our lives (and the afterlife) to the devotion and worship of this being.

As Christopher Hitchens put it so well, God is directly analogous to being the Dear Leader of a Cosmic North Korea. Where your life is spent worshipping the man in charge. However, at the very least, when you die, you can get out of North Korea.

and most atheists I meet are only atheists for emotional appeal.

I've been an Atheist for a good 10 years, and I have no idea how you can even formulate an emotional appeal to justify disbelief in a God Claim.

Even in the example above, stating that God is similar to a dictator of sorts does not give reason to think he may not exist. All that would mean that if he exists, he's not very pleasant.

Instead it was meant to point out that the emotional appeal you use to believe, isn't even that good of an emotional appeal when you look at both sides of the story.

Either way what it boils down to is a simple lack of evidence. And you can't tie an emotional appeal to a lack of evidence, it simply doesn't work.

So can you give an emotional appeal someone has used to hold an Atheistic position?

and you can't give yourself purpose because:analogy If i go to an alien planet and find a box but on that planet it was created as a hat,can i say it was made to carry things?NO!! i can only pretend.

Your whole example infers design, it's not applicable to this discussion. There's no reason to believe we were specifically designed.

Beyond that however, you can certainly use the hat as a box, and imbue that purpose onto it. What is stopping you?


In atheism there is NO meaning at all, you can only pretend which means you had no meaning to begin with, and if when you die you can't pretend anymore and since it is all destined to cease to exist then that means you had no meaning at all in the long run,you were just like a kid playing a game.You can find a goal,but a meaning is the sole reason you exist which you can't decide


And how is that better than pretending you have some outside purpose because it makes you feel good?

I recognize my life is finite, that drives me to want to achieve as much as I can with it with the time I have available. I want to experience all I can, and I want to do many things and accomplish many goals.

I have given my own life purpose and meaning, and I certainly find it valuable. If I die and find there is some form of afterlife, awesome. However, that is in no way required.
 
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Eudaimonist

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and most atheists I meet are only atheists for emotional appeal.

I've never met that kind. I have doubts that they exist.

I'm not suggesting that there are no emotional atheists. An atheist can be as emotional as anyone else. But I doubt that any atheist is an atheist merely "for emotional appeal".

and you can't give yourself purpose because:analogy If i go to an alien planet and find a box but on that planet it was created as a hat,can i say it was made to carry things?NO!! i can only pretend.

We are biological beings, not artifacts of some intelligence. We don't need to be created with a purpose-in-mind in order to have a natural purpose, which is to fulfill our lives as human beings.

Would we suddenly have meaning if we were to discover than humanity had been designed by a race of intelligent robots? No, whether we are designed or evolved, what matters is what we are, not what thoughts went into our existence.

(BTW, you are implying that God has no meaning to his existence because he is not designed by a meta-God.)

In atheism there is NO meaning at all

Oh, there most certainly is, and it is theism that threatens meaning.

I do not pretend that I was created with some purpose-in-mind, as if I were merely a tool. What kind of purpose is that to a tool, anyway? Is it the tool's purpose, or is it rather the purpose of the creator of the tool? And if the latter, then the tool has a meaningless existence for itself. If anything, it is theism that may lead to a meaningless existence, where all felt meaning is merely vicarious at best, like remoras latching on to the meaning of the shark, but having no meaning all their own.

I recognize that my existence -- not as a tool, but as a living human being -- means that I have a natural function which, when fulfilled, means that I achieve my good, and when unfulfilled, means that I am in need and live a stunted life. Naturally appropriate purposes, worthy of choice, exist because there is a natural standard of well-being. Those good purposes matter to my existence. They are not arbitrarily chosen.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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32k

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Great. So, on Monday, choose not to believe in any gods. Wednesday, let us know what it is like to be an atheist. Then Thursday, you can go back to believing.

Agreeable?
That's great and all except that it totally ignores the point that was at hand; namely that once you're introduced to a concept you can't be "un-introduced" if I may use that term.
 
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Davian

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That's great and all except that it totally ignores the point that was at hand; namely that once you're introduced to a concept you can't be "un-introduced" if I may use that term.

So in what way is belief is religious belief a "choice"?
 
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Tiberius

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That's great and all except that it totally ignores the point that was at hand; namely that once you're introduced to a concept you can't be "un-introduced" if I may use that term.

I don't see how that works.

I've gone from being a Christian to being an atheist. I was apparently "Un-introduced" to Christianity. And likewise, I've heard of many atheists who went to being Christian.

So why can't a person go from Christian to atheist and then back to Christian?
 
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horrace99

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I don't see how that works.

I've gone from being a Christian to being an atheist. I was apparently "Un-introduced" to Christianity. And likewise, I've heard of many atheists who went to being Christian.

So why can't a person go from Christian to atheist and then back to Christian?


Because you will have to crucify the Son of Man again and put Him to open shame.

And faith is a hard thing to get back because it comes from Gods loving grace and that is already hard to obtain
 
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Dave Ellis

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Because you will have to crucify the Son of Man again and put Him to open shame.

And faith is a hard thing to get back because it comes from Gods loving grace and that is already hard to obtain


But yet it's happened multiple times through history
 
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Tiberius

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Because you will have to crucify the Son of Man again and put Him to open shame.

And faith is a hard thing to get back because it comes from Gods loving grace and that is already hard to obtain

Eh? :confused:

I was a Christian, now I'm an atheist. If I go back to being a Christian, Jesus has to die again?
 
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Dave Ellis

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Eh? :confused:

I was a Christian, now I'm an atheist. If I go back to being a Christian, Jesus has to die again?


Does that not also imply that Jesus has to die again every time anybody joins the Christian religion even for the first time?
 
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Subduction Zone

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Eh? :confused:

I was a Christian, now I'm an atheist. If I go back to being a Christian, Jesus has to die again?

Logic was never one of horrace99's strong points.

Most atheists that I know of did not become atheists through choice. They, like me, started out as Christians and the more we learned about religion the less logical it seems. That along with other religions that make the same sort of claims and make the same sort of mistakes leads to atheism.

Everybody is at least 99.9% atheist, since there are thousands of religions on the Earth that they don't believe in. What is so bad about not believing in one more?
 
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R

RainbowDashIsBestPony

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Or we could say that we chose to be atheists in the same way that other people choose not to believe in Santa Claus or Zeus.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

-Stephen F. Roberts
 
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Dave Ellis

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Or we could say that we chose to be atheists in the same way that other people choose not to believe in Santa Claus or Zeus.


I never chose not to believe in Santa Claus... I simply stopped believing when the evidence became clear that belief wasn't warranted.
 
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Tnmusicman

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Logic was never one of horrace99's strong points.

Most atheists that I know of did not become atheists through choice. They, like me, started out as Christians and the more we learned about religion the less logical it seems. That along with other religions that make the same sort of claims and make the same sort of mistakes leads to atheism.

Everybody is at least 99.9% atheist, since there are thousands of religions on the Earth that they don't believe in. What is so bad about not believing in one more?

We aren't atheists we are rival theists.
 
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Tnmusicman

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All his arguments have been refuted over and over again.

Quite simply, he makes his money preaching to people who don't bother going out and researching if what he says is actually true.

If they went and did that research, they would see why what William Lane Craig says is complete nonsense.

I think I would trust his credentials considering a number of your fellow atheists have commented that WLC is rather well versed in the arena of debating. Namely,Hitchens and Harris. I'm sure you have respect for your fellow atheists opinions.
 
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Tnmusicman

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A lightning bolt also has a beginning. A rain puddle also has a beginning. A snow drift also has a beginning. How do these evience a deity?

Not even remotely in the same arena. You can't compare a puddle (which we KNOW why it began ) to the universe. Not even worth addressing. I didn't say it was proof of a God but it is evidence that points to God. Yes, the Christian God. I'm Christian so I ascribe to Christian theology and not Islam or any other theology so don't ask me about so called deities (that I don't believe to be true)
being the possible cause.
 
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