Atheist Universe: Not Impossible

allhart said:

Intelligent designer isn't a good reason Nothing comes from nothing not even your reasoning, for you theorize it! His signature is all around you. The Bible starts out "In the beginning "God" created the heaven and the earth". CAUSE AND EFFECT!

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Who created God?

allhart said:

Intelligent designer isn't a good reason Nothing comes from nothing not even your reasoning, for you theorize it! His signature is all around you. The Bible starts out "In the beginning "God" created the heaven and the earth". CAUSE AND EFFECT!

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cause and effect in this case have nothing to do with WHY

explain why there is reason.

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God creations reason. Why does he do this?

explain why there is matter.

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God creates matter, Why does he do this?

explain why there is a universe.

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God creates a universe. Why does he do this?

explain why there is nature and the law of physics.

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God creates Nature and the Laws of Physics. Why?

explain why there is life.

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God Creates Life. WHY? I have never EVER heard Why God supposedly does the things he does. They do not answer anything. Goddidit is a meaningless and hollow answer.

explain why there is consciousness.

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God creates consciousness. WHY?

Maybe you should not have used the word Why? Why did you use Why?

You think a first cause must exist? I hate to break it to you, but i would rather say the universe simply is rather then travel down that complicated road of asking who created the creator.

roflcopter101 said:

Who created God?

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That which makes him God to us. Whom created the meaning of God! No one. He is past present and the future.
"omnipresent"

Also God can't be what he created so he has to be by reasoning and of logic. In-material, timeless, space-less, supernatural, power of freewill, also can insinuate instantaneously (let there be light).

He also cloaked Himself in human flesh to be known!

allhart said:

That which makes him God to us. Whom created the meaning of God! No one. He is past present and the future.
"omnipresent"

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I'm guessing that the above means:

"Nobody made God. God has always existed."

If that's the case, then your assertion that everything has a cause is invalid. Not everything to you has a cause. And if that's the case, then you'll have to prove that God is the only thing that doesn't need a cause. Maybe this universe didn't have a cause. Or maybe our universe was caused by something else that wasn't supernatural and that didn't have a cause. Just saying that everything has a cause... oh... except for God is called special pleading. It's a logical fallacy.

allhart said:

That which makes him God to us. Whom created the meaning of God! No one. He is past present and the future.
"omnipresent"

Also God can't be what he created so he has to be by reasoning and of logic. In-material, timeless, space-less, supernatural, power of freewill, also can insinuate instantaneously (let there be light).

He also cloaked Himself in human flesh to be known!

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Then what prevents the universe from being created the same way God was created?

Pascal's Wager... really? So what will do if you selected the wrong god? your creating a false dichotomy (which is a fallacy) to assume that ether God exists, or no God exists when simply a god may exist that is not your God. You could waste 70 years AND eternity. I have NEVER seen a good argument as to why God is somehow special compared to all the other mythical unfalsifiable gods.

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562.

Thankyou for your reply. I will endeavour to respond to the best of my ability. If I select the wrong God the same scenario stands. I have wasted 70 years, because the afterlife does not exist with any other God in the way that it does with the one true God which I worship.

The question is purely academic as having been a follower of the one true God for 55 years, it is very unlikely that I am going to change course now. I like my Rolls and have no desire to change it for a Ford.

I have never seen a good argument to back up evolution so perhaps we are very similar to each other. You are convinced there is no God and I am convinced there is. You use logic and science to establish your position.

I am convinced there is a God and I use his word and creation to establish my position. I am not asking you to ditch your position unless you are convinced otherwise that would be hypocritical.

I understand that your main source of wisdom is reason, but I cannot do that because I live in the realm of faith which is reasonable for the born again christian. Reason does not understand faith because reason is based on specific information which comes from the natural world. Faith is based on facts from the supernatural world which the average atheist cannot comprehend.

Faith allows me to comprehend the supernatural world and to be part of it through the operation of the Holy Spirit in our lives. That enables us to know the truth because the bible says that he would lead us into all truth (John 16:13).

My understanding of the supernatural world only happened when I accepted there was one and I discovered what it was all about. I am pleased to say it holds no terror for me despite the fact that Satan's modus operandi is to steal, kill and destroy, because I am washed in the blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus.

On that basis, I can confidently say "I know who is my redeemer and I will stand until the day of judgment because of the efficacy of the blood of Jesus".

ToddNotTodd said:

I'm guessing that the above means:

"Nobody made God. God has always existed."

If that's the case, then your assertion that everything has a cause is invalid. Not everything to you has a cause. And if that's the case, then you'll have to prove that God is the only thing that doesn't need a cause. Maybe this universe didn't have a cause. Or maybe our universe was caused by something else that wasn't supernatural and that didn't have a cause. Just saying that everything has a cause... oh... except for God is called special pleading. It's a logical fallacy.

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To what makes a God a God? Cause and effect knows know bounds when you make the rules. Just like Jesus Christ being in flesh coming and going at will!(through walls and such) I don't know the cause and effect no more than you do in Our universe/world! God's thoughts are like you transcending your thoughts on ants! Better yet monkeys!

allhart said:

I have never seen a good argument to back up evolution so perhaps we are very similar to each other.

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There are none so blind as those who will not see.

roflcopter101 said:

Then what prevents the universe from being created the same way God was created?

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I don't know how God was created or if He was even created. God says "I AM" All I can see is His signature on all of life. Just like we don't know the why's for the universe. Other than what the Bible says about why! Us, but you have to explore the evidence where it takes you science reasoning and the Bible. In which I think you have an open-mind, to see that! Read 1 John 4:1-6

allhart said:

I don't know how God was created or if He was even created. God says "I AM" All I can see is His signature on all of life. Just like we don't know the why's for the universe. Other than what the Bible says about why! Us, but you have to explore the evidence where it takes you science reasoning and the Bible. In which I think you have an open-mind, to see that! Read 1 John 4:1-6

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Well, have you not said that everything has a cause and effect? According to your reasoning, God would also need a cause, correct? I am arguing that if God needs a cause, God's cause would need a cause, and so on and so forth for eternity. The concept of creationism would be infinite and paradoxical.

marksman007 said:

562.

*your post*

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thank you for your reply as well.

i highly disagree with this line

Faith is based on facts from the supernatural world which the average atheist cannot comprehend.

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to be more specific i think you are misusing the word "fact". For there is no way to confirm these supernatural facts, except for simply wishing them to be so. Faith is a belief in something with an absence of facts or without facts.

b&wpac4 said:

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

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You truly upset me. For one as a Jew per-sa, we aren't supposed to be far from each other, as you come across to be Is this God you worship not the same God? This is where I told you I feel you are with these guys/ athiests and argue for the argument sake. Are you for God or against Him. For you confuse even me! With all this anti-God rhetoric!

allhart said:

You truly upset me. For one as a Jew per-sa, we aren't supposed to be far from each other, as you come across to be Is this God you worship not the same God? This is where I told you I feel you are with these guys/ athiests and argue for the argument sake. Are you for God or against Him. For you confuse even me! With all this anti-God rhetoric!

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To which anti-God rhetoric are you referring?

b&wpac4 said:

To which anti-God rhetoric are you referring?

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Creation!!!!!? Origin?

allhart said:

Creation!!!!!?

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I'm not following what you are upset over.

b&wpac4 said:

I'm not following what you are upset over.

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Well post #588. After a double take It could be my perceptions. Could you clear this up for me. Was that directed at me or in them. If them I am sooooo sorry

allhart said:

Well post #588. After a double take It could be my perceptions. Could you clear this up for me. Was that directed at me or in them. If them I am sooooo sorry

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To be honest, I'm not sure why it put your name as the quote. I was not quoting you.

b&wpac4 said:

To be honest, I'm not sure why it put your name as the quote. I was not quoting you.

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O.K.

I still stand by what I said in the original posts of this thread.

A literal reading of Genesis does not stand up to observable, scientific fact. In the face of that evidence, as well as what I believe about the Torah, the scientific fact is the reality of what occurred, while the Torah is designed to teach lessons. Genesis is teaching people what it means to be human and the special relationship man has with God.

551:

Source? How do any of these three destroy lives, people and relationships?

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Thankyou for asking. I will in the space available and so as not to bore your with intermingable notes, explain things as I have experienced and see them.

Pornography is a substitute for reality. Many who look at it project the unreality of it onto others and expect the unreality to become the reality. Ted Bundy, who raped and killed about 10 women said that it all started when he got hooked on pornography. The unreality of what he saw became the motivating factor in the way that he dealt with women.

As a result, he apprehended women to satisfy his craving to experience what he saw in porn magazines and once he had his way with them, killed them as they were no longer useful to him.

Domestic violence can be result of pornography. Again the man has unrealistic expectations that porn has given him and then wants to act out what he has seen. His wife does not want to satisfy his abnormal craving so violence happens as a result as a means for the man to subdue and sumit his wife to his fantasies.

In many cases of rape, the motivating factor is pornography. Most porn gives the impression that the man is the dominator and the women is the slave. A man who feels inadequate and feeds on porn will abuse another woman sexually as he believes that is a way to cover up his inadequacy.

Recreational sex is destructive as it gives the impression that it is a case of easy come, easy go. I have heard some young men say that when they go out their main objective is to find a woman that they can get laid with.

This gives them a negative attitude of women and they become people who are to be used for their pleasure. The end result is that they are unable to maintain any meaningfull permanent relationships because it is all determined by the type of the sex that is provided.

When the man gets bored with his wife because sex is not like it is in the porn books and CDs, he ups and finds him another girl who can spice up his sex life. As a result marriage is only a convenience for him until he wants out to get more sex or more varied sex.

One young man who said he was going to be a virgin until he was married was asked "but what if she is no good in bed."

He said that as this would be the first girl he had sex with, he did not have to make any comparisons.

As far as homosexuality goes, the main reason that a person is SSA is due to a deficient emotional relationship with their father (boys) and their mother (girls).

This produces a spirit of rejection which clouds the person's ability to form and maintain normal relationships. Because he/she has this rejection, they develop a defensive attachment to prevent themselves from being hurt again, but at the same time because they are desperately needing love and acceptance, there is a reparative drive in them that wants to form a close relationship with another person of the same sex.

All these emotions working against each other lead to the person disliking themselves and they spend most of their time admiring people that they would like to be.

A SSA person is not looking for sex, only an accepting relationship. However, if the sex happens again and again, it is firmly implanted in his mind that sex equals love and acceptance, so there is a constant drive to have sex with as many people as possible to maintain that sense of acceptance.

Unfortunately it becomes self defeating because with their heigtened sex drive brought about by an emotional defficiency, they chase one person after another and fail to establish anything that is long lasting and satisfying. I know there are exceptions to the rule but exceptions do not make the rule.

The bottom line is that they spend a lifetime of rejection and dissapointment, never to find total fulfillment. The rate of suicide amongst homosexuals is not their treatment from society as the homosexual propogandist would have us believe. The main cause is the rejection experienced by other homosexuals.

After spending a night is some venue trying to hook up with someone, which could mean approaching 20 or 30 people and getting nowhere, they arer left with annonymous sex in some dark corner or room with someone they don't know or cannot see.

Not the stuff of a happy and fulfilled life.

I hope that this has given you some insight into the real world which I was required to investigate as part of my university degree and during the time when I worked as a freelance social researcher for various organisations.