Atheist Michael Newdow

[HelloToAll]

"

Michael Newdow, an atheist, said that the pledge harmed his daughter's First Amendment rights because she had to 'watch and listen as her state-employed teacher in her state-run school leads her classmates in a ritual proclaiming that there is a God, and that ours is one nation under God. '"Breaking revelations surrounding the case have led people to question the legitimacy of Newdow's suit. Based on information obtained by CPI News, a startling new fact has been unearthed regarding the personal opinions of Michael Newdow's daughter and her mother. According to information, the man who filed the legal suit in June did so against the wishes of his daughter and her mother, both of which identify themselves as Christians and attend a Calvary Chapel. By identifying themselves as Christians, the daughter presumably didn't become uncomfortable when reciting or objected to the Pledge of Allegiance - an action that directly contradicts the essence of the lawsuit. A Sunday evening announcement by Pastor Chuck Smith, asking for prayers from his congregation regarding the Pledge of Allegiance case, has revealed more new developments. The pastor of Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa told his church that, 'The little girl, over whom the suit was filed, happens to attend Calvary Chapel, in Elk Grove. She is Christian, her mother is a Christian.'

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This new development suggests the possibility that the court's decision was based on fraudulent facts. Michael A. Newdow claimed that reciting the Pledge violated his daughter's constitutional rights, and made her uncomfortable.

But regarding the suit's claims that Newdow's daughter was offended by the Pledge of Allegiance, Pastor Chuck Smith said that it is 'Totally false, she loves the Lord.' If Michael A. Newdow's daughter were indeed a Christian, it could mean (as Pastor Smith observed), 'That this whole suit was filed on a totally false premise.'"

I don't understand. What does this man have against the Pledge of Alleigance? He claims that his rights as an atheist is being violated for reciting the pledge. Actually Michael Newdow is violating my rights as a Christian by attacking God. What's everyone's thoughts on this man. Regards.​

 

[MethodMan]

I prasie God that I didn't turn out like Michael Newdow.

 

[David Brider]

I prasie God that I didn't turn out like Michael Newdow.

I'm trying to work out whether you're serious or not.

If you are...

[sup]9[/sup]To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: [sup]10[/sup]"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [sup]11[/sup]The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. [sup]12[/sup]I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'


[sup]13[/sup]"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' [sup]14[/sup]"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

FWIW,

David.

 

[MethodMan]

I'm trying to work out whether you're serious or not.

If you are...



FWIW,

David.

I was dead serious. Your scripture is not analogous since my statement was about God. Not me. Which is why I thanked Him and didn't praise myself.

Truly, I thanks for looking after my spiritual well being.

 

[artybloke]

I prasie God that I didn't turn out like Michael Newdow.

Hmmmm... sounds uncannily like the prayer of the rich man to me...

...there's a similar prayer prayed by the Pharisees: "Praise be to God that I wasn't born a Gentile, or a woman..."

Amd just because you mention God in the first three words (just like the Pharisee did!) doesn't stop it from being self-righteous bumptiousness. Now you're trying to wriggle free of it.

Now, if I can only see past this log,,,

 

[MethodMan]

Hmmmm... sounds uncannily like the prayer of the rich man to me...

...there's a similar prayer prayed by the Pharisees: "Praise be to God that I wasn't born a Gentile, or a woman..."

Amd just because you mention God in the first three words (just like the Pharisee did!) doesn't stop it from being self-righteous bumptiousness. Now you're trying to wriggle free of it.

Now, if I can only see past this log,,,

Not running from anything. I will stand by my statement. The OP asked an oninion. I gave it. If you would like me to expound upon it, say so. But stop with the accusations.

 

[immortalavefenix]

David is one christain I can respect!

 

[immortalavefenix]

How would you feel if the Pledge went like this.

"...one nation, under ourselfs, without a christain god..."

I would assume you would be offend.

Though I think for the wrong reason.

You would be offended because who are some secular teachers to tell your son that there is no God?

I would be offeneded because what place those the school have AT ALL is mentioning god. It is not their place. Their job is to prepare students for a succesfull career. Not to give ANYKIND of religous indoctrination.

Which is the point the man is trying to make.

Actually Michael Newdow is violating my rights as a Christian by attacking God.

You DONT NOT HAVE A RIGHT to NOT hear people attacking "your" god. Never had. Do not have. And never should have.

Childern DO HAVE A RIGHT to NOT be indoctrinated in religous matters by the state.

 

[David Brider]

I was dead serious. Your scripture is not analogous since my statement was about God. Not me.

You were, in your own words, praising God that you didn't turn out like Michael Newdow.

The pharisee thanked God because he (i.e. the pharisee) wasn't like other men - robbers, evildoers, adulterers.

The reality is that all of us Christians are no better than the robbers, the evildoers, the adulterers, the atheists, you name it. We've all sinned, and we've all fallen short of God's glory. All we have to thank Him for is His great mercy shown to us in Christ Jesus. And our attitude towards the robbers, the evildoers, the adulterers, the atheists, the Michael Newdows of this world, ought (I would suggest) to be, rather than to consider ourselves somehow superior to them, to instead pray that they too will experience God's wonderful life-giving forgiveness.

IMO.

David.

 

[David Brider]

I don't understand. What does this man have against the Pledge of Alleigance? He claims that his rights as an atheist is being violated for reciting the pledge.

It's more a case of his rights, and those of others, are being violated by being forced to say a pledge with which he doesn't agree. The solution, it seems to me, is to either change the wording of the pledge to make it less potentially divisive, or to cease to make it compulsory. Either would seem to be perfectly acceptable; in defence of changing the wording, I've never understood the insistence of some people on keeping the "under God" clause, seeing as it seems to be so utterly meaningless; and as for formally abandoning the Pledge, well, why not? If people want to swear allegiance to the American flag and nation then that's their affair and I'm not for one moment suggesting that they be prevented from doing so (although it's something that should give all Christians cause for great concern - aren't we to have no gods before the Lord our God, and to not bow down to false idols?), but to have it as a compulsory formal thing makes no sense. People should have the freedom to choose not to say the Pledge, just as others should have the freedom to say it.

Mind you - caveat: I'm from the UK and have never had to swear any kind of pledge of allegiance in my life. Heck, it almost makes me proud to be English...

David.

 

[MethodMan]

You were, in your own words, praising God that you didn't turn out like Michael Newdow.

The pharisee thanked God because he (i.e. the pharisee) wasn't like other men - robbers, evildoers, adulterers.

The reality is that all of us Christians are no better than the robbers, the evildoers, the adulterers, the atheists, you name it. We've all sinned, and we've all fallen short of God's glory. All we have to thank Him for is His great mercy shown to us in Christ Jesus. And our attitude towards the robbers, the evildoers, the adulterers, the atheists, the Michael Newdows of this world, ought (I would suggest) to be, rather than to consider ourselves somehow superior to them, to instead pray that they too will experience God's wonderful life-giving forgiveness.

IMO.

David.

What hope does the atheist have? Especially the Newdows of the world that have heard the Gospel and rejected it? I never said I was better nore implied. I do however, have a brighter future because I do have the Good News. Therefore, I still stand by mu original statement. If you wish to futher explore my theology, start another thread.

 

[heidegger]

Even to certain Christians, the pledge of Allegiance is offensive.
Members of JHWH's Witness, were not allowed to pledge their allegiance to anyone, not president or nation or king. They are only loyal to God.

 

[artybloke]

Even to certain Christians, the pledge of Allegiance is offensive.
Members of JHWH's Witness, were not allowed to pledge their allegiance to anyone, not president or nation or king. They are only loyal to God.

I'm a Quaker and oaths of any kind are pretty offensive to me.

 

[tulc]

You could think of it as being more of a fundamentalist attitude, the original pledge didn't contain the phrase "under God" it was inserted later on.
tulc(also not that fond of oaths)

 

[billwald]

In the USofA, you have rights as an American citizen. You don't have "Christian" rights.

 

[S Walch]

I thought oaths were against whas Jesus said in matthew 5:33-37?

[BIBLE]Matthew 5:33-37[/BIBLE]

 

[8TarHeel8]

artybloke,

Hmmmm... sounds uncannily like the prayer of the rich man to me...

...there's a similar prayer prayed by the Pharisees: "Praise be to God that I wasn't born a Gentile, or a woman..."

Amd just because you mention God in the first three words (just like the Pharisee did!) doesn't stop it from being self-righteous bumptiousness. Now you're trying to wriggle free of it.

Now, if I can only see past this log,,,

Is this thread about the legality of saying the pledge or somebody's interpretation of scripture, which more often than not is mere opinion? Since we are posting these messages in the Christian current affairs section, I would prefer we stay on topic. There is a theology section on this forum where you can debate and discuss the meaning of any bible verse and here is a hint: when quoting something from the gospels, remember the context (Matthew 10:5-7, 15:24). Some of us here are smart enough to know that mosaic law does not apply to Gentiles (Romans 2:14) and that Christians are under grace and not law (Romans 6:14)

Cheers.