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Gxg (G²)

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Evidence Gxg, evidence. I comes in handy when trying to prove a point.
n.
Evidence, bhsmte. You've not shown any, thus far, showing that life was designed or that God doesn't exist - and you've not shown at all evidence where your life has significance and it's not wrong for someone to kill you. If you're going to make a claim, verify. But if you can't, one cannot speak as if it was proven because you felt such
Very simple..

Nice dodge - but it has nothing to do with showing whether or not life needs a creator, nor does speaking on ID have anything to do with disappproving Theism. Francis Collins of the Human Genome Project has already spoken on the issue in regards to the false scenario of thinking that life being designed is the same as advocating for Intelligent Design when that is not the focus of others who are Theistic and yet working in science with the facts.

Francis Collins Denies Intelligent Design - YouTube
[official] Francis Collins - The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence of Belief - YouTube
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Who's got time to watch an hour and a half lecture on youtube?!
Who's got time to waste time speaking on an online forum with people they'll never meet - Bottom line being, if you're going to speak against positions others invest time in studying (and building life around) before speaking, one needs to be consistent in knowing where others who care to have a rational position don't trip on taking time to examine it. And if one wants micro-wave, then one wants pop ideas and really couldn't care less about actually studying a position before choosing to speak on it - no different than someone saying "Black Liberation Theologians like Jeremiah Wright are just racist!!!" and yet never checking out the 30 min to hour sermon where he actually supported whites and had other whites present in his church. People can disagree - but one should do so intelligently rather than simply being reactionary and obviously more willing to give hit-and-run comments (which never help) rather than real discussion of what people actually believe.
 
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bhsmte

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I don't follow you. I am not claiming that life was designed by any designer, so why should I be interested in providing evidence for the same, especially when no objective evidence exists. Evidence showing a God doesn't exist? Are you serious? When have a claimed to have evidence of this? Do you have evidence to show any of the many Gods produced by man don't exist?

We have the TOE to explain how we have evolved to where we are and it is loaded with objective verifiable and empirical evidence in it's explanation.

And by the way, Francis Collins thinks the evidence for evolution is pretty strong too. If you want to add a God to the TOE, be my guest, but the theory works just fine without one.

Francis Collins: "The evidence is overwhelming. And it is becoming more and more robust down to the details almost by the day, especially because we have this ability now to use the study of DNA as a digital record of the way Darwin’s theory has played out over the course of long periods of time.
Darwin could hardly have imagined that there would turn out to be such strong proof of his theory because he didn’t know about DNA - but we have that information. I would say we are as solid in claiming the truth of evolution as we are in claiming the truth of the germ theory. It is so profoundly well-documented in multiple different perspectives, all of which give you a consistent view with enormous explanatory power that make it the central core of biology. Trying to do biology without evolution would be like trying to do physics without mathematics"
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I don't follow you. I am not claiming that life was designed by any designer, so why should I be interested in providing evidence for the same, especially when no objective evidence exists.
No one claimed that you claimed life was designed by a creator. What was noted was that you don't have a basis for saying "Where is the evidence?!" and saying others are speculating when you already did just that claiming that life doesn't have a designer. That's equivocation.

Claiming no objective evidence exists doesn't show at any point that objective evidence of design does not exist. It is an opinion without any real case - and thus, there's no reason one should be concerned when you speak on "evidence" since you've not kept to your own standard. That's no different than what occurred when speaking on the George Zimmerman case and claiming the man was justified in shooting simply because he shot Trayvon (as has been discussed before).
Evidence showing a God doesn't exist? Are you serious? When have a claimed to have evidence of this? Do you have evidence to show any of the many Gods produced by man don't exist?
Distracting from the point that you really have no arguments to show that God objectively doesn't exist - but still wish to claim that science doesn't show theism to be true. That's not really a good foot to stand on...and an emotional argument doesn't objectively show why God doesn't exist. As it is, much of science was already begun by others believing in God.

I believe I have done so earlier already - but in the event it was missed, I will say it again: There's an excellent work that addresses the issue of God and Science by Ravi Zacharias entitled "Beyond Opinion"... In the book, Brother Ravi discussed the myth of conflict between science and religion...discussing the many scientists who are believers in God. Notable examples of scientists at the highest levels who believe in God would others such as Nobel Prize-winning physicist Bill Phillips and the director of the Human Genome Project, Francis Collins, who are convinced Christians. As Ravi noted, the gulf between the two groups of scientists has little to do with conflict between science and religion but everything to do with worldviews. For one group espouses naturalism, whereas the other espouses Christian Theism. Naturalism, often citing David Hume, denies the miraculous in the name of science...whereas Theism does not. Naturalism denies creation, holding that the universe is ultimately self-explanatory and that human beings are nothing special in the schem of things---since, in fact, there is no scheme of things. Theism, however, says that there is an eternal/self-existent and personal God who created and upholds the universe while also being distinct from it (Genesis 1:1, John 1:1, Col 1:16, etc).

Ravi discussed in the book how the conflict others often talk about with science/religion is really one that is a worldview conflict...and therefore, the key question would be which worldview does science fit most comfortably? In light of the history of science and the methodology of science (as well as discoveries of science), I'd go with Theism. Nobel Prize winner in biochemistry, Melvin Calvin, is someone who has spoken much on the issue....

As C.S Lewis said, "Men became scientific because they expected law in nature and they expected law in nature because they believed in a lawgiver." Galileo (1564-1642), Kelper (1571-1630), Pascal (1623-1662), Boyle (1627-1691), Newton (1642-1727), Faraday (1791-1867), Babbage (1792-1871), Mendel (1822-1884), Pasteur (1822-1895), Kelvin (1824-1907), and Clerk-Maxwell (1831-1879) were all theists, most of them Christians. Their belief in God, far from being a hindrance to their science, was often the main inspiration for it....for as Johannes Kepler wrote, "The chief aim of all investigations of the external world should be to discover the rational order which has been imposed on it by God, and which he revealed to us in the language of mathematics. " ( Astronomia Nova De Motibus )

And leaving God OUT of the picture has often led to a lot of problems - especially as it concerns evolution when defended from an atheistic perspective. There are a few honest individuals who admit that evolutionary theory does (if holding it from an atheistic worldview) influence attitudes and morals in an manner leading to arbitrary values. Social Darwinism claims that all the behaviors we do we do because they provide some selective advantage to the individual or the species. For example, evolutionists can explain reciprocal altruism ("I scratch your back, you scratch mine"), but have had difficulty explaining altruistic acts done by humans that are not likely to be returned by the recipient. However, in a 1999 issue of Nature entitled "Give and Ye Shall Be Recognized" , Nowak and Sigmund attempted to explain why such behavior can pay off in the long run and so be evolutionarily stable. According to their main idea, whether an individual helps others determines his or her social status in the group. Indirect reciprocity can evolve if the others take this information into account in future social interactions. Therefore, evolutionists are attempting to explain all behavior (even that done at sacrifice to the individual) in terms of evolutionary theory


In a recent book, A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion, authors Randy Thornhill and Craig T. Palmer claim that rape is "a natural, biological phenomenon that is a product of the human evolutionary heritage," just like "the leopard's spots and the giraffe's elongated neck." In other words, rape is a biological "adaptation" that allows undesirable males the opportunity to pass on their genes. According to Randy Thornhill, "Every feature of every living thing, including human beings, has an underlying evolutionary background. That's not a debatable matter." According to the anthropology department at the University of California Santa Barbara, "That rape might be an adaptation is a reasonable hypothesis to pursue, and the proper framework is intersexual conflict." If rape is just an evolutionary adaptation, then how can it be immoral?

Nature is not an ethical agent. Nature has no cognitive functions. Nature does not care to assure the survival of any particular species. Moreover, nature would not logically or necessarily support, our basic view of, ethics such as compassion since the strong would be helping the weak survive and would therefore dilute the species with the genes of the less fit (although reciprocity may play a par here). Nature is quite please if you propagate your species while eating others.

As Professor Richard Dawkins said in support of that statement:


In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

There's no logical way to escape the reality that one needs a Supernatual reality to make sense of the natural one.

Why I Am Not an Atheist


Again, one cannot talk on the subject of facts when seeing what plays out in science and ignore the other side as it concerns morality being an issue of fact as well - one that we ALL suscribe to when it comes to seeing what takes place in reality and then making a worldview out of it.
We have the TOE to explain how we have evolved to where we are and it is loaded with objective verifiable and empirical evidence in it's explanation.
Obviously - and seeing that no one was speaking AGAINST TOE, it is a moot point - and one that has already been shared on ( (As noted before here, here and here and #277 when the issue came up ). I am already aware of the history of TOE - so it's not really an issue. That has been in place for a long time -
other works on the issue have come out ....The Phenomenon of Man was one of the first systematic attempts at a theology we now call "theistic evolution" or "evolutionary creation" and ties the phenomenon of evolution to redemption in Christ. It was published in 1953

What is an issue is where you cannot show where the facts in science show that God doesn't exist - nor can you show where it's NOT a fact that your life has significance and isn't on the level of something to be discarded easily simply because one feels so.
And by the way, Francis Collins thinks the evidence for evolution is pretty strong too. If you want to add a God to the TOE, be my guest, but the theory works just fine without one.
Not really about adding God to anything - as the fact of the matter is that it was already understood that Francis Collins supports evolution. That's why he's a Theistic Evolutionist - and as said before, has noted how life cannot be explained without God being present before. One needs to catch up if missing that very simple fact that Francis has gone out of the way to make plain multiple times...

This is basic when it comes to his work at Bio Logos... And as he has said already:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5sMva2ydoU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoS-OG7R5cM
 
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bhsmte

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When we have objective evidence of how man evolved, over a long period of time, that is a good starting point, since significant amounts of objective evidence explains the same.

Is it possible that life was designed by some creator, be it a God, aliens or whomever, sure, it is possible, a lot of things are possible. If this was the case, objective evidence should show up at some point and until it does, it is the rational position to go on the objective evidence we have and that IS NOT speculation.

In regards to Zimmerman, I have no idea how you feel these two issues are related.

Do you understand how trials work and how evidence is presented, for the jury to reach a verdict?

Zimmerman had injuries that were a fact and those injuries matched up with eye witness testimony of his head being pounded into the cement, while Martin was on top of him. The forensic expert provided testimony that supported this same situation and hence, the evidence showed he was justified in shooting Martin and the jury agreed.

The overall evidence in that trial leaned extremely heavily against the charges filed against Zimmerman and even the prosecution's witnesses worked out better for the defense, because the case was so lacking evidence against Zimmerman. The fact the special prosecutor had to forgo a grand jury and presented a false affidavit to a judge, which just so happened to be missing evidence that the judge may have determined may have cleared Zimmerman, is all one needs to know about what motivated the charges to begin with.
 
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bhsmte

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You need to read the words one writes and not add words and meaning to the same, as you have put words into my mouth, I have not said.

Please point to where I claimed science has show that a God does not exist, or retract your claim.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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You need to read the words one writes and not add words and meaning to the same, as you have put words into my mouth, I have not said.
Please point to where I claimed science has show that a God does not exist, or retract your claim

.
When you live up to your own standard, then one can speak on it. As it is, you and you alone made claims of others advocating ID - despite where they already spoke out in support of Theistic Evolution - and then continued to speak on the matter after you made it an issue, even speaking past what Francis Collins already said on science objectively showing the existence of a creator. Deal with what was said before speaking more on the issue

Show where you (in #376 ) did not claim others noting design/theism evidenced by science were "speculating" - which is opposite of the belief that not believing in science showing the existence of God is the equivalent of non-speculation. It is not a complicated issue - as someone looking at the design of life/seeing evidence of design as well as the existence of God (as Francis Collins and other scientists have done) notes where they deal with the evidence...and another claims "That's just speculation - science doesn't prove there's the existence of God!!".

As said before, claiming "Until objective evidence shows up" is NOT the same as saying that no objective evidence has not already been dealt with that addresses how life could not have been sustained or created without a Creator and that things are too complex to have simply happened. One does begging the question whenever that occurs - AS well as selective examination...and it is not rational.

There's no reason going into an exposition on the case when that has already occurred elsewhere - with all those points addressed. But the point is that ignoring where the evidence does not agree with the conclusions (as was the case in the Zimmerman trial and the reasons behind it) is the same thing others do when saying science does not show God exists.
 
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bhsmte

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Let me get this straight:

Do you claim that some people do not advocate ID? And, show me where I claimed Collins supported ID and do not evade, show me.

Evolution News & Views

Michael Behe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For some fun, you can read his Dover trial testimony.

And please, please, show me how Francis Collins has "objectively" showed how science has verified there is a creator, I will await and I believe the whole world awaits to hear how science has objectively shown a creator exists.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Let me get this straight:

Do you claim that some people do not advocate ID? And, show me where I claimed Collins supported ID and do not evade, show me.
You already evaded dealing with showing where I said I support all things ID - thus again, you're arguing without any real verification. If you cannot do the basics in dealing with what another said in context, no need to be speaking

Moreover, no one said you said Collins supported ID. What was noted was that Theism (including Theistic Evolution) deals with a Creator and life showing His design - an idea which is SEPARATE from the ID movement (much of which goes against evolution). Learn to deal with ideas in the categories they occur in. Only you and you alone came in with the claim of ID being what others hold to when it came to their noting that scientists deal with the facts and see that the facts show evidence of a Creator. Period.
Evolution News & Views

Michael Behe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For some fun, you can read his Dover trial testimony.
Already know about those things - and as noted before, they were already spoken on. From Michael Behe (as seen here and here ) to the other issues that have already been shared on ( (As noted before here, here and here and #277 when the issue came up ). I am already aware of the history of TOE - so it's not really an issue. That has been in place for a long time -
other works on the issue have come out ....The Phenomenon of Man was one of the first systematic attempts at a theology we now call "theistic evolution" or "evolutionary creation" and ties the phenomenon of evolution to redemption in Christ. It was published in 1953

Thus, one needs to learn to catch up/deal with what others already said before speaking past what was noted.
And please, please, show me how Francis Collins has "objectively" showed how science has verified there is a creator, I will await and I believe the whole world awaits to hear how science has objectively shown a creator exists.
When you address accurately what Francis Collins has already said for years, then one shows that they actually care about what Francis Collins has said. This is basic when it comes to his work at Bio Logos... And as he has said already:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5sMva2ydoU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoS-OG7R5cM

Francis Collins Denies Intelligent Design - YouTube
[official] Francis Collins - The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence of Belief - YouTube


Again, if you cannot deal with what others already said, please don't waste the time of others pretending as if could do so. You didn't deal with it the first time - so it's quite obvious you really have no intention of doing so a second time.
 
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bhsmte

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From GXG:

"There's no reason going into an exposition on the case when that has already occurred elsewhere - with all those points addressed. But the point is that ignoring where the evidence does not agree with the conclusions (as was the case in the Zimmerman trial and the reasons behind it) is the same thing others do when saying science does not show God exists."

You brought up the Zimmerman case, so please elaborate, where was evidence ignored?

Do you acknowledge Zimmerman had head injuries?
Do you acknowledge an eye witness testified Martin was hitting his head into the cement?

And I will ask you one more time to back up the words you put into my mouth, which I am getting quite tired of by the way:

Where did I claim that science shows that God does not exist?
 
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bhsmte

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Is there a reason you keep muddying the waters, putting words into my mouth and avoid a simple question?

I will ask again:

show me how Francis Collins has "objectively" showed how science has verified there is a creator, I will await and I believe the whole world awaits to hear how science has objectively shown a creator exists.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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As said before, when you deal with what was said in context, then you can speak. Till then, you've already shown an inability to remain focused on what was said in discussion.

Your words - (in #376 )


[/INDENT

No one was speaking of ID - and when people spoke on the matter, then you went into a rant on ID being disproven and a host of other comments NO ONE was talking about when it comes to Theism and Science. And as said before, if actually wanting to deal with Collins, it doesn't take much dealing with his work. This is basic when it comes to his work at Bio Logos... And as he has said already:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5sMva2ydoU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoS-OG7R5cM

Francis Collins Denies Intelligent Design - YouTube
[official] Francis Collins - The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence of Belief - YouTube


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml0FqyFYfrU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPxGnN7RV1Y

Put up or shut up, really....​
 
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bhsmte

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I am very familiar with Collin's view points.

But, I will give you one more opportunity to support the claim you made with your own words.

No more muddying the waters, no more evasion, no more games playing, just a simple question based on your very words. Time to put up, or retract your claim. And, don't post a video and run away.

show me how Francis Collins has "objectively" showed how science has verified there is a creator, I will await and I believe the whole world awaits to hear how science has objectively shown a creator exists.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Already did, bhsmte - as each and EVERY point you raised on the trial was dealt with in the thread referenced, as it concerns the issue of selective argumentation (as said here, here, here, here, here, and here, here, ). And I already (alongside others) addressed the points you brought up - thus, there's no need going back into it again outside of reference. Making a quick reference to an issue to make a point is NOT the same as asking for a rehasing of that issue in its entirety - if you want to talk on Zimmerman, there are numerous threads to do so in depth. But it's pointless trying to go into things.

And I will ask you one more time to back up the words you put into my mouth, which I am getting quite tired of by the way:

Where did I claim that science shows that God does not exist?

And to note, it is of no consequence whether or not you're tired of anything. No one is forcing you here, nor did anyone come after you - you chose to speak and others addressed it. If you don't like it, move on - it's that simple.

As it is, you already made plain others saying that DNA and scientific evidence pointing to a creator were "Speculating" - moreover, you've already noted that God does not exist. Thus, it is mincing words and a waste of time trying to do semantics on the issue. If you believe science does NOT show that God exists, then say so - and quite with the "speculation" nonsense when others for theism note that science/observable facts show the existence of God. Period.

I am very familiar with Collin's view points.
Please with the pretense, as one knowing where Collin's stands does not claim that he does specualtion when saying science shows evidence for God/a Creator existing. Period.

But, I will give you one more opportunity to support the claim you made with your own words.
You already avoided dealing with the claim you made with yours when you....and you alone...claimed others were discussing ID.
Your words - (in #376 )


[/INDENT

No one was speaking of ID - and when people spoke on the matter,


Thus, unless you wish to be seen as hypocritical, one can reasonably deal with what they already said and drop the antics rather than continue with the inane tatics of "Do as I say, Not as I do." I really couldn't care less what you feel on the matter since you've not dealt logically with what others have already said - and are making it up as you go along. Like I said, either put up or shut up...
Time to put up, or retract your claim. And, don't post a video and run away.
No one has run away seeing that we're still here - the drama is needless, Bruh.
show me how Francis Collins has "objectively" showed how science has verified there is a creator, I will await and I believe the whole world awaits to hear how science has objectively shown a creator exists.
And as said before, show and deal with what Colllins Already SAID. Don't talk around it - nor make pointless claims of him not being objective in saying science shows evidence of a creator. Deal with what he noted - it doesn't take much dealing with his work. This is basic when it comes to his work at Bio Logos... And as he has said already:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5sMva2ydoU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoS-OG7R5cM

Francis Collins Denies Intelligent Design - YouTube
[official] Francis Collins - The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence of Belief - YouTube


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml0FqyFYfrU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPxGnN7RV1Y


If you can't do that basic action, don't waste people's time.​
 
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bhsmte

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Well, I didn't think you could prove your claim that Collin's stated that science can "objectively" show that a creator exists. Anyone who follows Collin's knows, his position is; science can neither prove God does not exist, or prove he does exist.

In regards to my position, I have made them clear and have not made claims I could not support. The fact that you twist and add to my words is your issue not mine, but it is pretty clear why you need to do the same.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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You didn't deal with what Collin's actually said (or where others already spoke on the man) when it comes to science objectively showing design/creator - but as Collins already said in both his writings and interviews that science shows a Creator, it is a falsehood to claim otherwise and indicator of ignorance intentionally on what the man actually advocated. People do so all the time - but thankfully it's easily addressed.

For Collins already noted that DNA is “God’s language.” (from "The Language of God" and The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief ) - Moreover, he notes that he sees plenty of "pointers to God," natural phenomena that imply the existence of a biblical God. Here are Collins's "pointers":

There is something instead of nothing.

The unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics, which make simple and beautiful laws.

The Big Bang: out of nothingness, the universe came into being. That cries out for explanation, since we have not observed nature to create itself . . . it causes us to postulate a creator, and the creator must be outside of time or you haven't solved the problem.

The precise tuning of the physical constants in the universe. If gravity was a little weaker, things would all start flying a part. You can see a creator in these constants.​

Why It's So Hard for Scientists to Believe in God - YouTube
Francis Collins The Language Of God 1of9 - YouTube
In regards to my position, I have made them clear and have not made claims I could not support. The fact that you twist and add to my words is your issue not mine, but it is pretty clear why you need to do the same
Cute - but it still avoids where you were unable to deal credibly and consistently with what others said when it came to assumptions YOU went into discussion with. Your words - (in #376 )


[/INDENT

No one was speaking of ID - and when people spoke on the matter, you already made clear in further responses on ID that was your focus (even though no one was promoting that - as noted before seen here and here to the other issues that have already been shared on ( (As noted before here, here and here and #277). Talking on adding words is falsehood and an action of adding words in the process to escape where one already made a false claim and was unable to deal with it.

If you want to promote a falsehood, you have all freedom to do so. But don't blame others for your own leanings toward doing it - as it's not hidden.​
 
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bhsmte

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Your post 389 states:

"Francis Collins already said on science objectively showing the existence of a creator."

Please show us how Collin's has used science to objectively show the existence of a creator.

And reconcile the same with this from biologos website:

In a Nutshell


The science of evolution is consistent with many religions and with atheism. Science alone cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. Some scientific evidence, such as fine-tuning, points to a Creator, but even this does not support Christianity over other religions. However, Christian doctrine is broadly compatible with scientific accounts of our origins. Though belief in the Christian God is not scientifically provable, it is not irrational. Commitment to Christ is a reasonable choice supported by a variety of evidence from history, philosophy, and the testimony of others. Ultimately, the Holy Spirit works in each person’s life to bring them into relationship with Jesus.​
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Your post 389 states:

"Francis Collins already said on science objectively showing the existence of a creator."

Please show us how Collin's has used science to objectively show the existence of a creator.
.
As already said - regardless of how often it is avoided -
For Collins already noted that DNA is “God’s language.” (from "The Language of God" and The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief ) - Moreover, he notes that he sees plenty of "pointers to God," natural phenomena that imply the existence of a biblical God. Here are Collins's "pointers":

There is something instead of nothing.

The unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics, which make simple and beautiful laws.

The Big Bang: out of nothingness, the universe came into being. That cries out for explanation, since we have not observed nature to create itself . . . it causes us to postulate a creator, and the creator must be outside of time or you haven't solved the problem.

The precise tuning of the physical constants in the universe. If gravity was a little weaker, things would all start flying a part. You can see a creator in these constants.​

When you are dealing with pointers, you were dealing with where the evidence logically leans toward and that is a part of the ways science is used to show the existence of a creator. Either address it or not.

Moreover, show where science does not already show pointers to the existence of a Creator if speaking against it. And as Collins already notes, metaphysical realities are ALSO a matter of dealing with facts - science is connected to that.

As he has already noted before and http://biologos.org/questions/science-and-religion:

In the first and third chapters of The Language of God, Dr. Francis Collins mentions pointers to God that played a role in his journey to faith. One of these pointers is the fine-tuning of the universe. Fine-tuning refers to the way the basic laws of physics appear to be delicately balanced for life. This precision calls for an explanation that science cannot provide. There is a spirited debate over the meaning of fine-tuning, and some critics charge that invoking God as the fine-tuner is a return to the God-of-the-gaps. But there does not seem to be any way to explain the detailed properties of the laws of nature from within science. Fine-tuning arguments thus go beyond science into metaphysics to explain why the world that science studies has the properties that it does. Another pointer that Collins mentions, following C. S. Lewis, is the moral law. The moral law is an implicit and universal standard of ethics for humanity. Collins describes morality as a universal law, which, unlike laws such as gravity, is broken very often. Overall, the moral law is consistent with the type of behavior that is expected of products of evolution. However, as Collins points out, altruistic behavior often seems to go beyond what would be expected from the best-established processes of Darwinian evolution​
 
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