Atheism. What are your thoughts?

[Asvin]

A flaw in this assertion is that the universe didn't necessarily "begin to exist", as if it popped into existence out of pure nothingness. It may always have existed in some form.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Or it MAY have been created!

 

[Asvin]

And the universe can't because...?


Not necessarily. We know the Big Bang began at least 13.5 billion years ago, but there is no evidence to suggest the universe began with the Big Bang - it could be far older, or even eternal, for all we know.


Not necessarily. Causality isn't as robust as people like to think (qv. Quantum Mechanics).


Not necessarily. What about natural causes? What about causes other than the Christian deity (Hinduism, anyone)?

Please take the time to read this:

The Ultimate Question of Origins: God and the Beginning of the Universe | Reasonable Faith

 

[3rdHeaven]

And the universe can't because...?


Not necessarily. We know the Big Bang began at least 13.5 billion years ago, but there is no evidence to suggest the universe began with the Big Bang - it could be far older, or even eternal, for all we know.


Not necessarily. Causality isn't as robust as people like to think (qv. Quantum Mechanics).


Not necessarily. What about natural causes? What about causes other than the Christian deity (Hinduism, anyone)?

No evidence that the universe began with the big bang? You realize it was created from the big bang right? And that it is still expanding?

There was nothing before the big bang, zip, notta nothing. Every thing came in to being from that event. Name one particle or piece of matter that existed before the big bang

 

[Asvin]

Nor does it make them true.

I agree, but when there are good arguments that point to the existence of a God that has revealed himself in Jesus Christ, I choose to believe.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Please take the time to read this:

The Ultimate Question of Origins: God and the Beginning of the Universe | Reasonable Faith

I did, and I have sent an email detailing the author's mistakes. If you want to talk about the origin of the universe, the existence of God, etc, do it in your own words, either here or via PM. I'm happy to talk science, religion, and philosophy, but not by proxy .

 

[Wiccan_Child]

No evidence that the universe began with the big bang?

Correct.

You realize it was created from the big bang right?

There is no evidence that that is the case. It was certainly an important event in shaping the entire universe as we know it, but there's no evidence the universe actually began with the Big Bang.

And that it is still expanding?

Indeed, hence why I said the Big Bang began 13.5 billion years ago, not that it was 13.5 billion years ago.

There was nothing before the big bang, zip, notta nothing. Every thing came in to being from that event. Name one particle or piece of matter that existed before the big bang

I cannot. Our theories take us as far back as 13.5 billion years ago, but no further. This is because the conditions at the start of the Big Bang cannot be accurately described by modern physics, so we cannot probe what happened then. So, there's a barrier, to pass beyond which requires better theories of high-energy physics (hence, CERN).

The fact remains, however, that all we can say is the Big Bang began 13.5 billion years ago (and is ongoing to this day). We cannot say if the universe also began then - for all we know, it could be 100 trillion years old, and the Big Bang is only the latest of many horizons beyond which we can't yet see. We cannot say what caused the Big Bang, we cannot say what, if anything, came before it, etc.

But, by all means, cite the evidence which tells us the universe genuinely began 13.5 billion years ago, with the Big Bang.

 

[Davian]

Nor does it make them true.

I agree, but when there are good arguments that point to the existence of a God that has revealed himself in Jesus Christ, I choose to believe.

Those arguments are faulty for all the reasons pointed out in the above posts.

Do you choose to believe because of those arguments, or do you present those arguments in an attempt to justify your belief?

 

[Asvin]

Those arguments are faulty for all the reasons pointed out in the above posts.

Do you choose to believe because of those arguments, or do you present those arguments in an attempt to justify your belief?

The most important aspects of my belief are my personal experience and relationship with God. I provide arguments to non-Christians so that they can know that I am being reasonable and rational in believing what I believe.

As for the faultiness of the arguments, take a look at the SCHOLARLY article I posted above. Dr. William Lane Craig does a phenomenal job in analyzing common objections!

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I agree, but when there are good arguments that point to the existence of a God that has revealed himself in Jesus Christ, I choose to believe.

Could you do me a favor and let me know what your best piece of evidence is? I'd like to believe in a heaven.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Or it MAY have been created!

One can pose that as a possible explanation, at least for the sake of argument.

However, one can't conclude that it was created by making the assumption that otherwise it had to have popped into existence.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Davian]

The most important aspects of my belief are my personal experience and relationship with God.

Personal experience can be deceptive.

I provide arguments to non-Christians so that they can know that I am being reasonable and rational in believing what I believe.

Then you should avoid presenting faulty arguments.

As for the faultiness of the arguments, take a look at the SCHOLARLY article I posted above. Dr. William Lane Craig does a phenomenal job in analyzing common objections!

This "scholarly" article?
The Ultimate Question of Origins: God and the Beginning of the Universe | Reasonable Faith

First sentence:
"The absolute origin of the universe, of all matter and energy, even of physical space and time themselves, in the Big Bang singularity contradicts the perennial naturalistic assumption that the universe has always existed."

WLC is incorrect in asserting that the Big Bang theory contradicts the hypothesis that the universe has always existed. As Wiccan_Child said in a previous post, there's no evidence the universe actually began with the Big Bang.

WLC's arguments do not even get off of the ground. Not very phenomenal.

 

[Asvin]

Personal experience can be deceptive.

Then you should avoid presenting faulty arguments.


This "scholarly" article?
The Ultimate Question of Origins: God and the Beginning of the Universe | Reasonable Faith

First sentence:
"The absolute origin of the universe, of all matter and energy, even of physical space and time themselves, in the Big Bang singularity contradicts the perennial naturalistic assumption that the universe has always existed."

WLC is incorrect in asserting that the Big Bang theory contradicts the hypothesis that the universe has always existed. As Wiccan_Child said in a previous post, there's no evidence the universe actually began with the Big Bang.

WLC's arguments do not even get off of the ground. Not very phenomenal.

Did you get past the hypothesis and intro? Did you read about Einstein's General Theory of Relativity? Steady State Model? Oscillating Model? Naturalistic Objections? Please tell me what you disagree with!

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Did you get past the hypothesis and intro? Did you read about Einstein's General Theory of Relativity? Steady State Model? Oscillating Model? Naturalistic Objections? Please tell me what you disagree with!

Have you read Lawrence Krauss? He's an actual physicist. I mean a REAL physicist. His latest book explains how a universe can come from nothing without a god existing.

 

[Davian]

Did you get past the hypothesis and intro? Did you read about Einstein's General Theory of Relativity? Steady State Model? Oscillating Model? Naturalistic Objections? Please tell me what you disagree with!

Would it make a difference? If the mistakes in WLC's arguments for the existence of deities, or of yours in particular, were pointed out for you, would it affect your beliefs?

 

[SithDoughnut]

I agree, but when there are good arguments that point to the existence of a God that has revealed himself in Jesus Christ, I choose to believe.

So why have you presented the worst arguments?

 

[someguy14]

First, with regards to the topic, it doesn't matter whether the universe was poofed into being by God or its origins are wholly natural. You seem to be dodging the issue.

Is is about the truth, though. How it became into being is very important.

Second, yes, I have considered it. All the evidence points to natural causes stretching back to the Big Bang, and no evidence suggests any divine intervention along the way. And even if God did have a direct hand in it, would that invalidate my ability to say, "I don't believe in the Bible"?

Where did a big bang happen though? You have to admit, whether openly or inwardly, that that is a very important part of the equation, for without it, a summary cannot be announced, only a theory. The Holy Bible is giving a starting point, and none has been able to prove it wrong, and never will. Because God is the Creator. It is good news friend. God loves you very much.

 

[someguy14]

If killing people is against Jesus' teachings, one wonders why the Bible has a whole book of what transgressions are worthy of death.

It is like saying, you carved a statue of a person, it is your choice to keep it or destroy it. The Creator of a thing has the right to do anything with his/her creation, always.

Jesus teachings make it very clear that, "vengeance belongs to God, God will repay", and mankind is not to kill.


Note: Im not infereing to abortion. Life is a gift from God and abortion is murder.

 

[someguy14]

My point was that you deliberately cherry-picked verses out of context to make the Bible seem preferable to the Qur'an, when the exact same could be done vice versa.

The Qu'ran still promotes lobbing heads off of infidels. Jesus teaches, instead of going to law, one with another, to rather take wrong and be a sheep for the slaughter. Love always and be at peace with one another, with ones full exent. Murdering is not a Christian way. Christ, before being hung on the cross, could have called many angels to destroy each of those that attempted to harm Him, yet, beacuse He loved all humanity, He chose rather to suffer the pain and abuse in order to give all humans a chance to know The Father, God and His beauty and love that He has for each of us. He is still alive and welcoming today. He desires to love each and every one, if they will come to Him.

 

[someguy14]

Where did your "God" come from? Or are you just going to assert that "God" gets excused from this requirement? That argument fails every time.

God never fails, friend. God is eternal. That means God has always been, is and will always be. God is Spirit and a Spirit is everlasting, eternal. God is able to do all things. With God, there is no limit. A warning though, God is love.

 

[someguy14]

God is eternal,

Yes.