Atheism was easier before modern science

[durangodawood]

How do you conclude bringing meaning to your own life makes one rare?

Ken

Its not determining your own meaning that makes you rare. Its being sure of it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Its not determining your own meaning that makes you rare. Its being sure of it.

Again; Why do you consider this rare? If you are the decider of something, why would you consider it rare to be certain of what you have decided?

Ken

 

[durangodawood]

Again; Why do you consider this rare? If you are the decider of something, why would you consider it rare to be certain of what you have decided?

Ken

I consider it rare because of my experience with other people. For most people it seems self-made meaning is just "where theyre at now", the current best-assessment.

But so what? Its certainly not any worse than choosing a pre-made meaning and wedding yourself to it for all time.

 

[ananda]

Science undermines religion mainly because religion tends to be allied with tradition, and science introduces change, through new technologies and new understandings of the world.

... not all religions.

In Buddhism, one of the meanings behind practicing the "dhamma/dharma" is to be aligned with how things truly are and should be, and that includes how the universe works (aka science). It is sometimes said that Buddhism is the one religion that fits best with modern science.

 

[Ken-1122]

I consider it rare because of my experience with other people. For most people it seems self-made meaning is just "where theyre at now", the current best-assessment.

I can't speak for your experiences; but it seems to me, only a slave would have a predetermined meaning/purpose to life; and that is to serve his master. A free man will create his own meaning to life; that which he finds important

Ken

 

[durangodawood]

I can't speak for your experiences; but it seems to me, only a slave would have a predetermined meaning/purpose to life; and that is to serve his master. A free man will create his own meaning to life; that which he finds important

Ken

Well, I agree. But its the work-in-progress aspect of it that makes certainty impossible, I think. Once you are certain, you have ceased creating.

 

[bhsmte]

Then you are a rare person.

But why is sure-ness so important? Seems natural that ones life-meaning may change over time.

I am sure I determine my meaning in life.

At various times of my life, meanings can change somewhat and or priority of different meanings one determines.

 

[Cute Tink]

Before modern science, it seems it would have been much easier to be an atheist. People used to believe the universe was eternal, until science discovered the Big Bang

Just going to stop here and note that my lack of belief in any gods has nothing to do with the Big Bang or anything else related to the scientific research into the origins of the universe.

 

[Ken-1122]

Well, I agree. But its the work-in-progress aspect of it that makes certainty impossible, I think.

I disagree! A work in progress simply means as you grow and learn, you update and improve your direction and purpose in life. A lack of maturity doesn't mean uncertainty, it simply means you continue to improve.
As far as the slave-thing, my ancestors spent too much time forced into that stuff; they would turn over in their graves if I were to sign up for it!
No thank-you

Once you are certain, you have ceased creating.

Does that mean because you are certain; you no longer create?

Ken

 

[durangodawood]

I disagree! A work in progress simply means as you grow and learn, you update and improve your direction and purpose in life. A lack of maturity doesn't mean uncertainty, it simply means you continue to improve.
As far as the slave-thing, my ancestors spent too much time forced into that stuff; they would turn over in their graves if I were to sign up for it!
No thank-you

Does that mean because you are certain; you no longer create?

Ken

I think of certainty as antithetical to change. Or at least an attitude not disposed to change.

 

[True Scotsman]

I think of certainty as antithetical to change. Or at least an attitude not disposed to change.

I think of uncertainty as a license to believe anything one wants to believe because one's belief can never be disproven if there is no such thing as certainty and all one has to do is say that he is not certain.

 

[Ken-1122]

I think of certainty as antithetical to change. Or at least an attitude not disposed to change.

No that's stubborn. Again; does that mean because you are certain, you no longer create?

Ken

 

[Percivale]

Theism and atheism are the same when it comes to whether meaning is assigned to your life or whether you choose it. In both cases, one's belief places certain limits on what purposes in life are available, and there is plenty of room within those limits to choose or find one's purpose and meaning. Atheists do not have the option of including meanings in their life that depend on a god or afterlife; if anything their freedom regarding which meanings are possible is more limited than theists'.

Certainty can be a help or a hindrance to change. A road trip is a decent analogy; if you are certain of your destination and the roads to it you will be more successful in changing your location by going there, unless you are wrong on any part of that, in which case certainty may get in the way of correcting the mistake.

 

[Ken-1122]

Theism and atheism are the same when it comes to whether meaning is assigned to your life or whether you choose it. In both cases, one's belief places certain limits on what purposes in life are available, and there is plenty of room within those limits to choose or find one's purpose and meaning. Atheists do not have the option of including meanings in their life that depend on a god or afterlife; if anything their freedom regarding which meanings are possible is more limited than theists'.

Just because a person's meaning in life doesn't include meaning dependent upon God, Santa Clause, Cookie Monster, or Buggs Bunny doesn't take away from the fact that your options are limitless.
IMO the only person whose options are limited are those who believe their purpose in life is assigned to them by someone above/bigger than them. I've never heard of an atheist who believes this; but I've met plenty of theists who do.

Ken

 

[Archaeopteryx]

This is exactly why the Big Bang weakens atheism.

How so?

Until it was discovered, one had the option of seeing what we know exists, the universe, as what is eternal.

You seem to be assuming that atheists are necessarily committed to the universe being eternal.

Now, however, one must posit either an 'unknowable and unintelligible' multiverse or something of the sort, or an equally unknowable Creator.

This is a false dichotomy.

The advantage of the Creator is that he explains a wide variety of other phenomena, from religious experience to the origin of life, that all have to be explained independently otherwise.

Unless you can show that a deity is a good explanation for these phenomena, this would appear to be an argument from ignorance.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Then this happened!

What if the universe had no beginning? | Science Wire | EarthSky

And it was good...

As Sean Carroll pointed out in his debate with Craig last year, there are cosmological models that are eternal.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Before modern science, it seems it would have been much easier to be an atheist. People used to believe the universe was eternal, until science discovered the Big Bang, so the Cosmological argument wouldn't have been as strong in the past.

People can and still do posit eternal cosmologies. The Big Bang doesn't strictly prohibit such models.

People used to believe in spontaneous generation; that maggots automatically appear in decaying meat and mice in straw, until science disproved that, which you'd think makes a creator more necessary now than one would have thought then. Science has discovered that the universe is much more complex than previously thought. Even the problem of evil would have been a more powerful argument against theism in the past, before science began solving many of the specific evils in daily life, giving hope that more will be solved in the future. A problem without a solution is bigger than if there is one.

I don't see how any of this points to a creator god.

Science undermines religion mainly because religion tends to be allied with tradition, and science introduces change, through new technologies and new understandings of the world. Religions' alliance with tradition is not a necessary one though, and new religions have always challenged tradition in much the same ways that science does.

In much the same way? How many wars and inquisitions have scientists launched to settle theoretical disputes?

Science may also challenge specific religions beliefs, but a religion having some details wrong does not mean religion's main thesis is wrong.

And what would that thesis be?

 

[Davian]

Theism and atheism are the same when it comes to whether meaning is assigned to your life or whether you choose it. In both cases, one's belief places certain limits on what purposes in life are available, and there is plenty of room within those limits to choose or find one's purpose and meaning. Atheists do not have the option of including meanings in their life that depend on a god or afterlife; if anything their freedom regarding which meanings are possible is more limited than theists'.

Atheism does not preclude belief in an afterlife. I have known at least one such individual.

Certainty can be a help or a hindrance to change. A road trip is a decent analogy; if you are certain of your destination and the roads to it you will be more successful in changing your location by going there, unless you are wrong on any part of that, in which case certainty may get in the way of correcting the mistake.

A road trip is a poor analogy, as it implies one is capable of deciding on one's destination; belief is not a choice.

 

[juvenissun]

Originally Posted by juvenissun

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Mostly, because you will never be sure about the meaning of your life.

I am sure.

To you and others who said that you are sure about the meaning of your life:

Of course, most people can say something about the meaning of his/her life. But look at it this way: The meaning as you know it CHANGED and WILL CHANGE AGAIN (at the time you know better).

That means, you do not really know what is it. It is something subjected to revision. Even you think that it is not likely to happen, but you can not rule out the possibility. That is a signature of atheism.

A theist, any theist, has no such problem.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Of course, most people can say something about the meaning of his/her life. But look at it this way: The meaning as you know it CHANGED and WILL CHANGE AGAIN (at the time you know better).

Meaning in life does change in its details over time because you as an individual change. If you think it is static for one's entire life, then you are the one who doesn't know your meaning in life.


eudaimonia,

Mark