Atheism one year with no reason to believe

New_Found_Faith said:

What? Please use a proper sentance structure when you post. I hate it when I have to try to make sence of a badly worded post. If he believed what on faith? Christianity? He said it himself that he didn't understand Christianity and that people didn't answer his questions.

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Please use proper spelling when you post.

Actually, never mind. I should probably worry about the beam in my own eye...

New_Found_Faith said:

If he believed what on faith?

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You said :
"You didn't figure it out for yourself then, you adopted the opinions of fools on internet forums (no offense intended."

I should have quoted before. My bad. But now you can understand my post.

I'm no missonary, I'm not recruiting people to Christianity as some atheist groups do to their cause whenever someone new comes to one of their forums.

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The point is that if he believes on faith whatever any of you say to him to try get him "back into the fold" then thats just as bad as if he did that with those atheist sites isnt it.

Ed

ravenscape said:

Please use proper spelling when you post.

Actually, never mind. I should probably worry about the beam in my own eye...

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At least you don't have to read what I write five times to try to make some sense of it.

Edx said:

You said :
"You didn't figure it out for yourself then, you adopted the opinions of fools on internet forums (no offense intended."

I should have quoted before. My bad. But now you can understand my post.

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I'm still not getting it. You can't believe atheism "on faith" so you must have been referring to Christianity.

The point is that if he believes on faith whatever any of you say to him to try get him "back into the fold" then thats just as bad as if he did that with those atheist sites isnt it.

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No one is actively recruiting him here. Anyway if he did want to become a Christian after just reading some posts here, he should at least be informed by both Atheists and Christians as to make a good decision that he would stick with. He turned to atheism because he was getting answers from one side and not the other. To me it doesn't sound lie he made an informed decision.

Ok let me put out this warning before I post so no one fusses at me:

I AM NOT GOING TO TRY AND CONVERT ANYONE

ok, now having established that, I just want to give some input. I am sure you have reasons why you believe God doesn't exist, but someone mentioned that they just didn't get their questions answered. I really recommend reading The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel. He was an atheist who was determined to prove that Jesus did not exist and/or that he was not the Son of God who should be worshipped.

Unlike other books where they try to convert you while you read, this one just sets out the facts and asks you to make your own decision. I got the student edition of the book, and it was an easy read.

Maybe by seeing the facts you will become a stronger atheist, or maybe you will change your views. I am not sure, but what is the worst that can happen? This guy just wants to present the facts and if you want to disagree with his version of the facts, you can research them yourselves.

My main point is that no matter what you believe, you should be well-equipped with the facts.

ravenscape said:

Please use proper spelling when you post.

Actually, never mind. I should probably worry about the beam in my own eye...

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Well you want to be shure to get the speck, I mean you wouldn't want to poke his eye out.

Morrowind360 said:

in my opinion the earth was that the planets were created over millions of years.No god had done anything to make them energy and gases did.

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You're correct. That's what the evidence suggests. That the entire universe is being run according to pure physics, no supernatural being involved. HOWEVER! In my opinion, that was done DELIBERATELY by God, to ensure that people would be fooled into believing that this massive universe was created purely by luck/freak of physics. Because you won't be totally free unless you believe that there is NO GOD TO JUDGE YOU. If you believe there is no god to judge you, then you will be free to make up your own rules on what is right and what is wrong. That is exactly what God wants. He doesn't want you to slavishly goose-step to his dictates. He wants you to turn THIS world into Heaven. And you can start by eliminating institutionalized rape, as used to exist in Iraq and still exists in Iran. What's your plan?

Gardenia said:

What do you mean, an African or European Swallow?

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Errrm... I don't know...

Whooooshhh...

Morrowind360 said:

I lived with my grandmother for about four years. She took me to church and sundayschool every sundday.Back then i had questions that were never awnsered so that made me a little sceptical. I moved back in with my mom and dad when i was 10. I dident go to churchanymore after that.I started figureing things out on my own and went to websites to learn what i could.At school when people tried to make me see 'the christian way' and make me join a grouip i asked them my questions. They really couldent give me a good awnser. I knew what atheism is and decided to look it up.I found atheism was more like me and I knew myself that gods/Godesses werent real.I found other atheist forums like iidb.org and information sites like positiveatheism.com and no-god.com. Thats how i figured out god wasent real for myself.

Im not going to lie i wanted to go here and lurk around just for fun.Its pretty crazy stuff ive heard some christians say on this site.Its that and boredom.

Morrowinds a game i had.


Oregin of the universe i believe that it created itself but other people have thier opinions.Im fine in the fact that the universe had created itself because we may not know otherwise.

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So you reject the Christian worldview, and hence Christ, because your grandmother and your adolescent friends haven't been able to answer all your questions, and you accept an atheist worldview, and hence your own autonomy, despite the fact that it fails to answer many questions (the most fundamental ones). And that's what you call "figuring out for yourself" that atheism is true. I get it. In fact, I get it very well, because I did pretty much the same thing right around your age. Praise be to God that He dealt with me with grace and mercy, in spite of my arrogance and rebellion.

Morrowind360 said:

You were only rebelling not actualy following atheism. I know atheism is right just like you know god is right.Atheism actualy awnsers many questions.

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Everyone who rejects God is in rebellion--including you, whether they acknowledge it or not. And we can't both "know" contrary things. If something is false, it is not knowledge. And although atheism/materialism presumes to answer many questions, its so-called answers are based on philosophical speculations that do not comport with the human experience of reality. I just made a long post to Edx on a thread I started where I elaborate on this point. You're welcome to read it and to ask questions if you like. I'm no genius, but I'll do my best to respond.

Morrowind360 said:

i did not make assumptions of you so dont do the same.You know nothing of the subject so actualy know something before you post.

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This is a debate forum, dude. You've got to expect some argument, and also have to support your own.

im not rebelling atheism is just right for me. There are always more than two sides in everything so dont make it for or against.

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Where do you get the idea that atheism is "right" for you? When you say that, you infer that it isn't right for other people but if you actually believe that it is truth, shouldn't it be right for everyone? If change your views to something that is right for you and wrong for others, you are just chosing a lifestyle that you find more convenient. Truth is universal, you can't seek out what ytou find to be more convenient ('right for you').

Morrowind360 said:

Like some religons are right for some they are not right for others.

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I disagree. Wouldn't you agree with the statement 'truth is universal'?

I dont know how to explain it it just is.

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Can you try to for the sake of the debate?

How do you prove the existance of the sun to a blind man?





Dan~~~>can't get him to believe what he can't see

New_Found_Faith said:

I'm still not getting it. You can't believe atheism "on faith" so you must have been referring to Christianity.

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If someone just "adoptes the opinions of fools on internet forums" then that might as well be taking it on faith. The point is to understand and decide for yourself.

We seem to be essentially saying the same thing.

Ed

Mailman Dan said:

How do you prove the existance of the sun to a blind man?

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Pressuposition most of the time gets someone to commit logical fallacies, especially when one holds that preassumption to be true; the exceptions I would say would be when one holds the pressupositions as a hypothetical.

What you have here is the sun, a fact, trying to be proved to a blind person. Even though you can't show the sun visually to a blind person, you can't show anything else visually to a blind person as well. But when it comes to the sun which is a fact because we can see it, it is observable, we hold no preassumption of the sun. We can prove the sun exists to the blind person by taking him to a beach, have him step on a shaded area and ask him what he feels, then have him stand(without a shirt) out of the shaded area so he's under the exposure of sun light and then ask him how does he feel. Then describe to him that the sun emits light, and light particles are hitting his skin this very momment.... to demonstrate any other object, you can just hand it to the blind person and have him touch the object, that would be some evidence given that the object handed to him is an actual object that is trying to be proved.

Concerning the sun, or any other object which is observable, one does not hold a preassumption when trying to prove it to a blind person. But when it comes to god on the other hand, people have to pressume that he exists, you wouldn't be able to prove it to a blind person nor a person that is able to see because god or the spiritual is not observable. And since he's not observable, no one is able to see him, no one is able to detect the spiritual... one can only assume that one can detect the spiritual through the preassumption that a god exists. And since one experiences these assumptions, and these experiences are meaningful to them sentimentally, he/she will consider them as truths, but they are merely only subjective truths, not truths to reality. And at the end there is only a subconcious web of circular reasoning where assumptions are validating a pressumption which they are all depending on to begin with.

Dan~~~>can't get him to believe what he can't see

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I am very skeptical for things that can't be seen and are not observable.

I know that you are as well, for example, you don't believe in Krishna, right? Odin? Zeus? Larry the Leprechaun?

What about Leprechauns? There's one on my ceral box, so they do exist.


The sun, however, still does not exist.

I took the blind man outside, under a tree. Then drew him out from under the tree to feel the heat of the sun. He reasoned that all life gives off the heat that exist in our world, and being pulled in one direct or the other causes more or less heat.

I then argued the complex nature of light, trying to explain how it was necessary for things to live. He quickly argued that *if* that was true, and light really did exist, then all living things would die at night, if the sun really set as people "claimed" it did.

Prehaps i'm the one who is mistaken, and there is no sun.


Dan~~~>thought the Leprechaun's name was "lucky"