Atheism and Self-Esteem

[Jedi]

The following is an excerpt I found pretty interesting from skimming through the book “Fast Facts on False Teachings” by Dr. Ron Carlson, and Ed Decker:

Randy Alcorn, founder of Eternal Perspective Ministries in Oregon summed it all up concisely in a recent article entitled “The Two Sources of Self-Esteem:”

Everywhere in the secular media I’ve been hearing and reading about the critical problem of poor self-esteem among our young people. A bad self-image is being cited as the cause of teen suicide, drug abuse, crime, and violence. Educators and community leaders are trying to find ways to help children bolster their self-esteem.

Where does this plague of low self-esteem come from? Ironically, straight from the atheistic evolutionary view of man with which society has indoctrinated our young people. Where can they get a healthy and accurate self-esteem? From the very Judeo-Christian ethic society is rejecting, and trying to desperately to keep out of the classrooms and public life.

Let me summarize the secular and Christian foundations for self-esteem, then you tell me whether it’s any wonder why America’s children are feeling like they, their lives, and their values have no meaning.

The Secular Basis for Self-Esteem

You are the descendant of a tiny cell of primordial protoplasm that washed up on an ocean beach 3.5 billion years ago. You are the blind and arbitrary product of time, chance, and natural forces. Your closest living relatives swing from tress and eat crackers at the zoo.

You are a mere grab bag of atomic particles, a conglomeration of genetic substance. You exist on a tiny planet in a minute solar system in an obscure galaxy in a remote and empty corner of a vast, cold, meaningless universe. You are flying through lifeless space with no purpose, no direction, no control, and no destiny but final destruction.

You are purely biological entity, different only in degree but not in kind from a microbe, virus, or amoeba. You have no essence beyond your body, and at death you will cease to exist entirely. What little life you do have is confined to a fragile body aimlessly moving through a world plagued by war, famine, and disease. The only question is whether the world will manage to blow itself up before your brief and pointless life ends on its own.

In short, you came from nothing, you are going nowhere, and you will end your brief cosmic journey beneath six feet of dirt, where all that is you will become food for bacteria and rot with worms.

Now... why don’t you feel good about yourself?

The Christian Basis for Self-Esteem

You are a special creation of a good and all-powerful God. You are the climax of His creation, the magnum opus of the greatest artist in the universe. You are created in His image, with capacities to think, feel, and worship that set you above all other life forms. You differ from the animals not simply in degree but in kind.

Not only is your kind unique, but you are unique among your kind. God has masterminded the exact combination of DNA and chromosomes that constitute your genetic code, making you as different from all others as every snowflake differs from the rest.

Your creator loved you so much and so intensely desires your companionship and affection that, despite your rebellion, He gave the life of His only Son that you might spend eternity with Him. If you are willing to accept the gift of salvation, you can become a child of God, the King of the universe.

As a Christian, you are clothed with the righteousness of Christ. He has given you special gifts and abilities to serve him in a particular and unique way.

Your heavenly Father is sovereign, and will allow nothing to cross your path that is not Father-filtered. He cares for you so much that He is totally available to you at all times, and listens to every word you say. He cares deeply about your hurts, and has a perfect plan for your life. He has given you the inspired Word of God as a road map for living. He gives you the truth that sets you free, a life that is abundant and eternal, and a spiritual family that loves and needs you.

Your destiny is to live forever in a magnificent kingdom, to reign with Christ over the universe. You will forever enjoy the wonders of His presence and the marvels of His creations. You will spend eternity in intimate and joyful fellowship with your beloved Lord and your precious spiritual family.

Now... how does that make you feel about yourself?

 

[Caffeine Socialism]

Very good, actually. I feel as though I'm sticking it in that guy's face, because I feel like I am worth more than any theist could ever hope to be.
I am the product of billions of years of change and random events taking place, all leading up to me. Then again, I am but a cog in the spectacularly immense machine that is this universe. I feel very special to be a part of the cosmic ballet.
Not to mention to be alive. The most amazing thing is how I can ponder all of this. I do not have to struggle to live and then live, I can live and then think. I am the intelligent outcome of the dice roll of Fate.
Also, there is a sense of cosmic awe, which I feel is the most moving emotion, because of all the beauty in random chance. If a mind just like mine created the universe, there's nothing really very spectacular about it. It's contrived, preconceived, just like a sculpture. I don't want to be someone's idea, their experiment. I find the fact that people can love that feeling very odd.
Maybe someday humanity will outgrow that primitive notion.

 

[chickenman]

what does "feeling nice" have to do with the truth

the article seems to be saying "accept a lie, its nicer"

 

[blader]

This is amusing. What with Christians accusing atheists of being so prideful all the time, having them accuse us now of having low self esteem is a mild relief.

 

[npetreley]

It's not a matter of self esteem but pride.

Christian: To G~d be the glory.

Atheism: To me be the glory.

 

[Humanista]

Since part of the Christian dogma is that mankind is depraved and sinful by nature, it 's curious that anyone would suggest that those who DON'T subscribe to this depressing notion lack self-esteem.

The fact that humankind evolved as a part of the natural world is amazing and awe-inspiring. We are made of "star stuff", we really are one with everything in the universe.
Only the creationists buy into the strawman idea paraded here that life is meaningless just because an ancient mythical creature did not poof us into existence. Believe me, no teenagers are taking their lives or obliterating their feelings with drugs and alcohol because the theory of evolution has thrown them into despair. Give me a break! Since at least 80% of all troubled teens come from theistic homes, it is hard to make a case for atheism casuing low self esteem. AS for the "secular society" strawman, I challenge you to go through a day in a normal American city without seeing and hearing references to religion in the media, stores, schools (kids and teachers wearing religious jewelry and clothing, posters announcing religious meetings). Go down to your local high school and ask for a show of hands of everyone who is an atheist. Better yet, see how many are members of religious youth groups.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

I pretty much agree with the other viewpoints expressed here.

While the Bible makes for good reading, I prefer not having all the answers in a nice, neat package. Discovering nature, the cosmos, the intricacies of life, and how we humans fit in to the big picture is what makes life worth living for me. Staring up at the night's sky and realizing we are a tiny spec in an incredibly vast universe fills me with awe and wonder. Tracing the path of evolution back to the most primitive life forms in a "primordial soup", and thinking about the fascinating laws of nature that brought all this to be, gives me more reason to think there is a God (in what form I cannot say) than any single book written by men.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I tried, but like a scab, I couldn't resist picking at this one...

*RANT MODE ON*

Originally posted by Jedi
The following is an excerpt I found pretty interesting from skimming through the book “Fast Facts on False Teachings” by Dr. Ron Carlson, and Ed Decker:

*A whole bunch of nonsense snipped*

The Secular Basis for Self-Esteem

*Various anti-evolution, anti-science strawmen snipped*

Now... why don’t you feel good about yourself?

The Christian Basis for Self-Esteem

*A mess of touchy-feely "God loves you just for being you" snipped*

Now... how does that make you feel about yourself?

Ok, so the theory that makes you happy is the right one? Well, let me one more to the list:

The Fundamentalist Basis for Self-Esteem

You are scum. You think you are master of all you survey, but God has a major wake-up call for you. God loves you more than you can possibly imagine, and far more than you could ever deserve. And when he drop-kicks you into an inferno of pain and torture for all eternity, it will be in the name of his love for you. Why is this, you ask? Well, knock it off! You don't get to ask the questions. Read Romans 9:20-21 and shut your mouth.

Besides, you wouldn't understand it anyway. It involves two naked people, a snake, and an apple. Never mind the details; the point is that they ruined it for the rest of us. You're going to suffer for their mistake. Read Genesis 3:16-19 and beg for forgiveness.

You're nothing without Him. And make no mistake, you're not much better off with him. Sound unfair? tough. This is his game; he makes the rules. Think you're good enough the way you are? Well, knock it off! Jonathan Edwards, a Puritan sinner back in the old days, tells it like it is:

"The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment." -- Jonathan Edwards, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. http://www.jonathanedwards.com/sermons/Warnings/sinners.htm

You're scum. And even though you don't deserve it, God is willing to forgive you all your transgressions, real or imagined, if you spend the rest of your life on your knees begging His forgiveness, and praising the name of His son....who is also Him, but not exactly-- ah, never mind, you wouldn't understand. Just shut your mouth, do as you're told, vote Republican, and condemn and harass anyone who doesn't fall into the strictest Biblical view of "normal,"  and maybe, just maybe, you'll get into the exclusive heaven, where you get to keep on doing it for all of eternity.

Now. . .how does that make you feel about yourself? Good?

Well, knock it off! Pride's a sin.

*RANT MODE OFF*

 

[Nathan Poe]

By the way, what's a self-esteem thread doing on the science board anyway?

 

[blader]

That was one of the funniest rants I have ever read, Nathan. Great writing.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Thanx blader. You can't fail when you've got good material to work from. Carlson and Decker's essay was a hoot.

 

[npetreley]

Here's the Atheist/Evolutionist theme song, Deteriorata (thanks to National Lampoon)

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.

Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep.

Rotate your tires.

Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself, and heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys.

Know what to kiss, and when.

Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do.

Wherever possible, put people on hold.

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment, and despite the changing fortunes of time, there is always a big future in computer maintenance.

Remember The Pueblo.

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate.

Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI.

Exercise caution in your daily affairs, especially with those persons closest to you - that lemon on your left, for instance.

Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls would scarcely get your feet wet.

Fall not in love therefore. It will stick to your face.

Gracefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan.

And let not the sands of time get in your lunch.

Hire people with hooks.

For a good time, call 606-4311. Ask for Ken.

Take heart in the bedeepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough cheese.

And reflect that whatever fortune may be your lot, it could only be worse in Milwaukee.

You are a fluke of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not, the universe is laughing behind your back.

Therefore, make peace with your god, whatever you perceive him to be - hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.

With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal, the world continues to deteriorate.

Give up.

 

[Jedi]

the article seems to be saying "accept a lie, its nicer"

Actually, only an atheistic evolutionist would think that. This article isn’t saying anything on which is true, but which is more of a problem for self-esteem (which leads to other problems like suicide, drugs, etc).

What with Christians accusing atheists of being so prideful all the time, having them accuse us now of having low self esteem is a mild relief.

It’s always been a wonder to me why so many atheists appear so prideful and conceited. Is it because they think they’re on top of the world looking down on all those “silly theologians?” According to their own presupposition (we’re all a product of blind chance, the non-existence of a standard to say that truth is better than falsehood, or that good is better than evil), they are equal in worth to a virus or paramecium, since there’s no objective basis to say that complex life and order are better than primitive life and disorder, or even that life is better than death.

You are scum.

So much for an understanding of what you’re talking about. “For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” --Romans 8:38-39. The message: You are loved.

“I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, I know that full well.” --Psalm 139:14. The message: You are wonderfully made.

I’d hardly call someone who is fearfully and wonderfully made, as well as unconditionally loved by the Creator of the Universe, “scum.”

And when he drop-kicks you into an inferno of pain and torture for all eternity, it will be in the name of his love for you.

If someone does not want to be with God, why would God force this person to be with him for all eternity? I’d hardly call that loving.

Not only this, but without hell, ultimate justice cannot take place and good will never ultimately triumph over evil. Evil is contagious and must be quarantined (Thus the separation of all that is good, Heaven, and all that is bad, hell). God provided humanity a way out of his debt of sin (which he would have to pay for the sake of justice), and if you choose not to let Christ pay your debt, how can you say God is all of a sudden unloving? Was he unloving when he provided a way out by paying a debt he didn’t have to pay, or when he honored the choices of those he loves? Which part is unloving?

Why is this, you ask? Well, knock it off! You don't get to ask the questions. Read Romans 9:20-21 and shut your mouth.

Talk about taking things way out of context. That’s about asking God “Why did you make me like this,” not that you shouldn’t ever pursue understanding when questions arise. In fact, 1 Peter 3:15 says, “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.”

You're nothing without Him. And make no mistake, you're not much better off with him.

Where do you get this? Philippians 4:13 reads, “I can do everything through him who gives me strength.” I’d hardly find that room to say we’re not much better off with him.

Jonathan Edwards, a Puritan sinner back in the old days, tells it like it is:
*Snip away a theologically unsound pastor trying to scare people into salvation*

I’ve read this before – it’s nothing new. This fellow’s intent on his presentation seems very clear: to scare people into salvation, which I completely disagree with. His presentation of God is not Biblically based, and seems to be more of one, super-large hyperbole than anything else.

Now. . .how does that make you feel about yourself? Good?

Well, knock it off! Pride's a sin.

Pride is different than confidence, since pride is confidence gone on steroids. I cannot see how viewing yourself as acceptable because God accepts you is, in any way, wrong. No one has ever been prideful about being beautiful, intelligent, or athletic. They are prideful about being more beautiful, more intelligent, and more athletic than someone else. There lies the difference.

 

[blader]

Originally posted by Jedi

Pride is different than confidence, since pride is confidence gone on steroids. I cannot see how viewing yourself as acceptable because God accepts you is, in any way, wrong. No one has ever been prideful about being beautiful, intelligent, or athletic. They are prideful about being more beautiful, more intelligent, and more athletic...

...or more acceptable because you are accepted by God...

...than someone else. There lies the difference

Seems to be Christians can be just as "prideful" as atheists, by your definition.

 

[lithium.]

It’s always been a wonder to me why so many atheists appear so prideful and conceited. Is it because they think they’re on top of the world looking down on all those “silly theologians?” According to their own presupposition (we’re all a product of blind chance, the non-existence of a standard to say that truth is better than falsehood, or that good is better than evil), they are equal in worth to a virus or paramecium, since there’s no objective basis to say that complex life and order are better than primitive life and disorder, or even that life is better than death.

thats crazy i am an atheist and i believe in evolution, and i am not any different than anyone else "christian or non-believer" I am not someone and i don't know anyone that believes like me that is conceited, and prideful thats then crazyer I know alot of christians that are conceited and prideful, sure you can have pride for the work you do i know come people in my college that are going to be really good scienceist and they have pride for there work. But there not any different any another else, Thats what i hate about the world to day IF you believe in something different people think you are different. NO one is better than anyone people shouldn't say anything bad about anyone just cause you believe different.

So if you are conceited and prideful you are an atheist that bull. LIke i said there is alot of christians that are conceited and prideful.

 

[lithium.]

Originally posted by Pete Harcoff
I pretty much agree with the other viewpoints expressed here.

While the Bible makes for good reading, I prefer not having all the answers in a nice, neat package. Discovering nature, the cosmos, the intricacies of life, and how we humans fit in to the big picture is what makes life worth living for me. Staring up at the night's sky and realizing we are a tiny spec in an incredibly vast universe fills me with awe and wonder. Tracing the path of evolution back to the most primitive life forms in a "primordial soup", and thinking about the fascinating laws of nature that brought all this to be, gives me more reason to think there is a God (in what form I cannot say) than any single book written by men.

I have to agree with this, Pete is right.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

It’s always been a wonder to me why so many atheists appear so prideful and conceited.

While I have run into atheists who think their atheism makes them superior to believers, I run into pride a lot more when dealing with other Christians. Like the Pharisee in the temple, they love to extoll their superior virtues and faith.


The premise of this thread is inherently flawed. The effects of a belief on self-esteem have no bearing on whether the belief is true. I'm sure that I could create a belief system that just built up my self-esteem, but would that make it true? No.

 

[Chris H]

Originally posted by Pete Harcoff
I pretty much agree with the other viewpoints expressed here.

While the Bible makes for good reading, I prefer not having all the answers in a nice, neat package. Discovering nature, the cosmos, the intricacies of life, and how we humans fit in to the big picture is what makes life worth living for me. Staring up at the night's sky and realizing we are a tiny spec in an incredibly vast universe fills me with awe and wonder. Tracing the path of evolution back to the most primitive life forms in a "primordial soup", and thinking about the fascinating laws of nature that brought all this to be, gives me more reason to think there is a God (in what form I cannot say) than any single book written by men.

Pete, this is amazingly well worded and well written. While I would consider myself a Christian I would basically agree.

It's also amazing how many christians make statements about Athiests without personally knowing any. I'd have to put the first post in this thread in that category.

Chris

 

[Nathan Poe]

*RANT MODE ON*

The funny thing is that the essay which started this thread is based on a Post Hoc fallacy. Carlson and Decker would have us believe that atheism and evolution are responsible for teen suicide, drug abuse, crime, and violence. The implied answer would be to do away with these nasty things.

never mind the broken homes, abuse, molestation, and negative influences from parents, peers, school, religion, and other authority figures. let's blame it on Darwin.

I suppose Carlson and Decker believe that suicide, drugs, and violence were unknown in pre-evolutionary society. I suppose that civilization was chugging along quite nicely until a few atheists (most likely part of a global new world order conspiracy as prophesized in the book of Revelations) came along and spoiled it for the rest of us.

On the other side, Christianity (notice how only Christianity bolsters self-esteem; there's no reference to any other religion) is a perfect paradigm in which life is just peachy and everyone is happy because we all have a purpose that God set out for us (notice the lack of any mention of the hell that awaits those who don't live up to that purpose).

I can't imagine Carlson and Decker went to all this trouble to point out the ills of the world without considering a solution. So, what is it? How do we get society back on track? Do away with evolutionary theory? Tell all those scientists they're wrong?

And what about atheism? how do solve the "problem" with that? Make Christianity the law of the land? Follow religious law to the letter? How about mandatory church attendance? I seem to remember a bunch of guys who tried that. They called themselves the Taliban.

So please, Jedi, post the rest of the essay! Tell us what wisdom Carlson and Decker have to offer for us poor atheists, evolutionaries, heretics, blasphemers, scoffers, backsliders, agnostics, and freethinkers who obviously have such terribly low self esteem.

I eagerly await their insipred guidance.

*RANT MODE OFF*

 

[Chris H]

Nathan, I agree. People who want to blame everything on our modern understanding of biology need to get a clue.

Chris